I'm losing empathy for people, especially those in distress.

[TheLoneWolf]

I don't hate you, or think you're arrogant or stuck up or anything like that. I used to feel exactly like you, that my situation was different, that I was a freak, hopeless, conventional advice was useless to me. The thing is, we convince ourselves of these things because we believe them to be true, based on our experience. Our past experiences shape our self image, and that is the image we present to the world, and eventually we identify ourselves as this freak that we imagine ourselves to be, letting everybody around us know (subconsciously) that we are this kind of hopeless loser. Now, of course, if you think of yourself as a hopeless loser, and you present yourself to the world as a hopeless loser, then people are going to view you / treat you as a hopeless loser.

Step outside of yourself for a minute and read some of your own posts, from the perspective of an "outsider". "What sane women would want to be with an isolationist freak like me who has lived in this remote bubble away from the world? What about any friends for that matter? What children would have to have such a freak father such as me that can hardly guide them and teach them anything because I know so little in the first place?"

Come on, seriously man? I mean, I get it, I used to feel the same way. I'm not much to look at... I was just told by my boss this weekend that I look like Steven Carell... AKA the actor from "The 40 Year Old Virgin". Hah, a bit ironic, that is... couple that with social anxiety and a messed up childhood that caused me to forfeit my potential... I shared the same experiences as you through adolescence, never dating, few friends, etc. Coupled with the fact that I was raised by a poor single mother, I was bullied mercilessly, ignored by my parents and abused daily by my stepfather.

But, of course, as has already been mentioned, this is not a "my life is worse than yours" pissing contest. If it was, I would be a top contender... and yet, there are still others who have it much worse than me. So what's my point? My point is that, in spite of my lack of higher education, my lack of any specialized job skills, my lack of friends, my lack of social skills and utter lack of any recognizable redeeming qualities, I have managed to do alright for myself, if only through sheer determination. Yes, I am older (and I might argue a bit wiser) than you, but I have been in your position and felt exactly how you feel. In my youthful ignorance, I didn't even realize just how toxic my own attitude was to my existence. You are so convinced that you are hopeless, a "freak among freaks", that you have made yourself so. The circular road of depression is paved with self fulfilling prophecies. One almost has to wonder if secretly you want to see yourself as this abomination, as it absolves you from taking any responsibility for your own station in life. Forgive me if that sounds harsh, but as someone who has dealt with depression for years - the bulk of that depression stemming not from my childhood abuse, but rather the fact that I felt like an outcast in the world - I can honestly say that part of me enjoys being depressed and viewing myself as a pariah, to think that I was specifically chosen by God to be punished for some unnamed sin, to hold myself up as a martyr... but it's all bullshit. Yeah, I had a crappy childhood. Yeah, I missed out on a lot of things. Yeah, I'm not the best looking or most charming guy around. But no matter how bad I had it, somebody else had it worse... and chances are, that somebody is out there doing more with their lives in a week than I've managed to accomplish in 10 years.

Whatever it is that you think makes you uniquely cursed, I can assure you that you are wrong. Your only curse is your attitude. What are your issues? Lack of friends... well, that can be fixed, but it would require going out and getting involved in something other than feeling sorry for yourself. No girlfriend? You and I both know from experience that desperation is a HUGE turnoff to women. Get that fixed, and your luck will improve tenfold. No job, skills, education? Maybe you are used to being pampered, but these things do not just fall in your lap; you have to work for them.

Sorry for the bit of tough love here, but I figured the only way to show empathy for someone who has no empathy is to not show him any empathy... hah. I don't mean to offend you in any way. Trust me, like I said, I have been in your position before and felt exactly as you do. You have a choice... you can accept this fate that you have sealed for yourself, or you can stand up and say, "no, fuck this, I'm not going to settle for living like this, I'm going to do something with my life". Of course there are no guarantees of success... life doesn't come with a warranty or a refund policy. But you never know what you can (or can't) do until you try, and try, and try again. And if you fail 100 times, try 100 more. You only live once, and the game isn't lost until you're dead. From the looks of it, you ain't dead yet. So what the hell are you quitting for? This game isn't over yet. You've got to actually play if you ever hope to win.

Yeah, I know you probably have a lengthy response lined up to explain to me exactly why you are so utterly hopeless... just think how successful you could be if you put the same amount of effort into improving your life that you put into making excuses. I don't care how ugly or weird or socially awkward or whatever you think you are, there are probably at least a billion people on the planet who make you look like Don Juan by comparison. So stop thinking of yourself as the belltower hunchback, and maybe people will stop treating you that way. There are lots of great women out there who are just looking for a good man who will treat them right, it's not all about looks or money my friend, I assure you. If the women you talk to seem preoccupied with those things, then you are clearly talking to the wrong kinds of women anyway.

Not sure if this post is helpful at all or not... probably not. I haven't been around much these days, so I'm not really sure if I'm of any use to anyone here anymore, but your thread caught my attention, and I can relate to it in some ways, so I figured I'd give it a shot.

[TheBLA]

Thanks for your reply TheLoneWolf.

There's no real metric to measure "loserdom" in people, so its hard to describe how anyone is worse than someone else and more of a "loser". For instance when I'd go to India, my dad would point out those living in slums and how they broke their backs working day after day just to survive and how I was lucky not to be in their shoes, that I was still better than them. But yet, they were actually still happier than me, in fact, happier than most of us living here in the 1st world. They had more spiritual wealth than material wealth, which is much more important. They were still always surrounded by close-knit family and friends in those slums that made their life worth living. Yet, many of us living in 1st world countries with our fancy smartphones, social networks are truly the alone and miserable ones. We see so many suicides from those in Western, industrialized countries and many from these third world countries are happier than we are.

Step outside of yourself for a minute and read some of your own posts, from the perspective of an "outsider". "What sane women would want to be with an isolationist freak like me who has lived in this remote bubble away from the world? What about any friends for that matter? What children would have to have such a freak father such as me that can hardly guide them and teach them anything because I know so little in the first place?"

Come on, seriously man? I mean, I get it, I used to feel the same way. I'm not much to look at... I was just told by my boss this weekend that I look like Steven Carell... AKA the actor from "The 40 Year Old Virgin". Hah, a bit ironic, that is... couple that with social anxiety and a messed up childhood that caused me to forfeit my potential... I shared the same experiences as you through adolescence, never dating, few friends, etc. Coupled with the fact that I was raised by a poor single mother, I was bullied mercilessly, ignored by my parents and abused daily by my stepfather.

You may think that what I wrote is ridiculous and far-fetched, but I really think of it as being true. Also, why do you think what I am saying is so silly, if you used to feel it yourself? For anyone who has been isolated away from everyone else for a long time, its very difficult, if not impossible, to ever integrate into normal society again. Again, what girl would seriously want to be with a man who has been isolated for many years except maybe for a girl just in my same situation? That's probably the only hope I will ever have, to find a girl just like me, and to just flat-out ignore all the "normal" girls out there. What kid would really want to have a father who was also very isolated and can't teach his child anything, because he is so ignorant and dependent on others himself? There's plenty of bad fathers out there and I'd rather not be a father than a poor one. There's an extremely low chance I will ever have a significant other and/or kids, and maybe it would actually be for the best, especially the not having children part. Besides, being a husband and a father isn't a guarantee to being happy and fulfilled in life. Many of these folks are really miserable and many who are single are very happy.

Let me ask you something. I know that this forum actively discourages suicide and tells all of us that there is always hope for everyone, no matter what. That we can get better from our problems. In fact, I feel that way for everyone else here except for myself, that only I can't be fixed. However, don't you honestly think that out of over 7 billion people in the world, that not everyone can be "saved", not everyone can have a happily ever after ending? That some people will have horrible lives until the day that they die? It stinks, but its probably the truth. We always want to hold out hope that everyone in the end, gets a happy ending, but it just cannot happen. Don't you think there are some people out there, for example, who have no chance of attracting a girl, no matter how positive their attitude, how much confidence they exude? That applies to many Chinese men for instance, because of the big gender imbalance problem in their country. It stinks for them, that thousands of Chinese men will be lifelong bachelors, for no fault of their own. All they can do it just sit back and accept their fate and try to be happy. Anyways, having a girl is no guarantee of being happy. Girls are not everything, its just one facet. Though everything in my life is lacking.

Yes, it does feel "convenient" if I was truly the biggest loser alive and my circumstances couldn't be bettered and my fate was sealed, so I could act as some victim, a pariah and just sit back and do nothing. I wouldn't have to make any effort to improve my life because it would all be futile. It would really stink that if I had (have?) the chance to have a better life and I never take it and time keeps on passing me by until it really is too late. I really hate if its true that my life can get better and I never seize it. I "hate" those who have come from "worse" conditions than me and still emerged victorious and happy, like my father. Because their attitudes and will made it all possible and then I look really bad if I have had more to start with than them, a better life when I was young and I screw everything up.

So, what make you gain this epiphany after suffering for a long time, that you did not want to give up and keep fighting and try to find reasons to keep on living? What made you from going from utterly hopeless thinking just like me to the way you are now, while you still fight and help others in the process of your own recovery? Where did this sudden burst of optimism come from?

Again, I apologize for still being really negative and a downer, even in the face of other depressed people here who have more optimism than I ever will and do their best to help me. I get this feeling that everyone will get tired of me, if they feel that my depression really is uncrackable and impenetrable. Everyone has their limits. I appreciate the help of everyone, always, for trying and maybe it will work eventually for me.

[TheLoneWolf]

You are right, there is no metric measure of such things. Family, friendship, love, spiritual wealth, etc., these are all far more important than the things people obsess over in the first world. You are absolutely right. I don't even have a smart phone or a social networking account, nor do I want either one. I no longer have any great desire to be wealthy, I just need enough to keep myself fed, clothed, sheltered, etc.

I did used to feel as you do, and sometimes I still do, but I was not as hopeless as I believed myself to be. Negative attitude and negative self image contribute to making yourself even more of an outcast, unfortunately. You say the only hope is to find a girl like you... well what is wrong with that? My dream has always been to find a girl like me. Isn't that the goal? Why would you want to be with someone who didn't understand you anyway? As for being a father, I think you are measuring the quality of a parent by the wrong criteria. My parents were "normal", more or less; they had friends, decent jobs, etc., but they were far from good parents. A good father is one who loves his children and does his best to raise and take care of them. The only "poor" fathers are the ones who neglect their children. You don't have to be a perfect man to be a good father, you just have to have a good heart and love for your family. As for the family/relationship not always bringing happiness, I wholeheartedly agree... I have been in an unhappy relationship for 10 years, and it has made me miserable. Why did I end up in an unhappy relationship? Because I was a desperate lonely isolationist who thought that no woman would ever want me, until I met one who did. That didn't turn out so well for me, and I would caution against you making the same mistake. This is why it's important for you to improve your attitude and self image, to ensure that you end up with somebody that you actually want to be with, instead of settling for the first woman who comes along.

I do agree with you, that not everybody can be saved or have a happy life. But you're not one of those people. There is nothing you have said about yourself that I don't see as being completely reversible. You don't live in China, as far as I know you're not dying or disabled, you're not a slave, or a mutant, or a moron, or any kind of special case that is beyond redemption. Yes, you are right, having a girlfriend is no guarantee of happiness... I am sure that many of those Chinese men you mentioned have realized that; I'm sure most of them have found contentment in other ways. And if you don't believe that having a girlfriend would make you happy, why bother even worrying about it? You should be focused on what WOULD make you happy. Usually the men who have the most success with women are the ones who don't obsess over them all the time anyway, they are the ones who are independently happy and pursuing other interests. Not to mention that pursuing other interests would make you more social, more interesting and well rounded, it would make you less of an isolationist and get you out in the world meeting women, some of whom might take a liking to your shy awkward nice guy personality (or however you project yourself).

It's never too late to change, and you don't have to keep letting your life pass you by. I've been doing that for 33 years, but I can change that. Not that change is ever easy or without bumps in the road, but it can be done. Forget the idea of people coming from nothing and making a wonderful life for themselves; life is not a contest. We all falter; I have missed out on a lot of great opportunities and squandered many of my talents. That doesn't mean that I'm a failure. You're only a failure if you fail yourself. Success is completely subjective. How do you measure success? What do you want out of life? Focus on that, don't focus on what other people are doing with their lives or how much better or worse off they are than you. It doesn't matter. Somebody will always have it better or worse than you. If you insist on comparing yourself to others, you will never be happy. We all have our own unique experiences in this life, no one can say what you should or shouldn't have accomplished without actually having walked in your shoes. I apologize if it sounds like I'm judging you, because I'm not. It's easy for me to imagine what it's like for you because I have been in your shoes before... not exactly, no two peoples' experiences will ever be identical, but I definitely see similarities between how you feel now and how I used to feel. I'm trying to be helpful; I realize that my advice may not help, but it's worth a try.

I've suffered for depression on and off for many years, and I'll admit, right now I'm not feeling depressed. So that's one reason for my optimism, is that I am not currently mired in the disease that has a tendency to taint everything it comes into contact with. It's like sticking your head up above the clouds for the first time and seeing the clouds for what they really are... it's not that the sun is gone, it's that you're unable to see it from down there. I don't expect you to magically have some kind of epiphany; that's not exactly how it worked for me. Age has some to do with it... as you get older, you start to relax a little and care less about the things that used to bother you. I didn't really start to feel this effect until about the age of 30 or so. Maybe it's that all those crazy youthful hormones are finally calming down, I don't know. Why did I keep fighting and keep on living? To be honest, I don't know. Maybe I was afraid to die, or at least afraid to take my own life... maybe I'm secretly such a narcissist that the idea of self termination is simply inconceivable... or maybe I was just hanging on to a shred of hope the whole time... who knows? Why are you still here? Why are any of us? Living isn't easy, but then neither is suicide... if these things were easy, this forum would have no reason to exist. As for what changed my mind about myself... well, finding a woman who was willing to be with me did go a long way towards dispelling the notion that I was hopeless and would always be alone. You yourself mentioned that you've had online relationships, yes? I know you're thinking that's not the same thing, but my marriage actually came as the result of an online relationship... so yes, they can become very real. It took years for me to finally gain confidence in myself... it hasn't been a perfect process, believe me. But I guess one day I just woke up and realized that I still wasn't satisfied with my life. And I now know that I am not hopeless... I have had some success with women, I do get along with people better now than I did when I was young and awkward and unsure of myself, I do excel at most things I do when I put my mind to it... you're a smart guy, and from what I gather a nice guy as well, you can do these things. You are not hopeless... but just look at your signature on here. It screams of someone who wears his low self esteem almost as a badge of honor. It is a bit bizarre to be proud of the fact that you have no pride in yourself, is it not? There may have been times when I liked feeling sorry for myself, but I never liked being insecure. It sucks, and I have worked hard to try to overcome my insecurities. I'm sure I still have a ways to go, but I'm a thousand times better off than I used to be, and that is reflected in how people interact with me now. I get more respect now that I have respect for myself. You don't have to be arrogant or full of yourself, you just have to learn to like yourself and believe that you are a worthy human being. Almost everyone has some sort of redeeming qualities, and if you did a bit of self reflection, I'm sure you'd find that you probably have more than the average person, as much as that may come as a shock to you. You're not a bad guy, but as long as you believe that you are, you will focus on the things that reinforce this belief.

[TheLoneWolf]

FOR THE RECORD: I did not mean to offend anyone who is suffering from something that they cannot change. I have yet to meet anyone here who is hopeless. I was simply trying to put the OP's plight in perspective to make him realize how lucky he really is, since he seems to think his situation is so much worse than anyone else's. But as usual, in trying to reason with one person, I managed to offend others. I actually do have sympathy and empathy for people who are suffering, though apparently I lack the ability to effectively communicate such. So I will stop trying.

I apologize for anyone who was offended by my post. It seems I never should have come back here, as my words will ALWAYS be misinterpreted.

[TheBLA]

I am sorry you feel this way, TheLoneWolf. But I am also not sure what has caused you to feel this way.

I have non-existent self-esteem and always feel that my words as well are useless or offensive to people. I don't think you have said anything hurtful and especially, I can tell that it was never your intention. I know even sometimes, "tough love" has to be given to people here, the harsh truth sometimes has to be handed out, because it is what it is.

Although I still disagree with you that my life is not the worst and I am not the biggest loser alive.
I may need to give you some more details of my life so you can further analyze me, haha.

I remember walking into a mental health support group about two years ago. They asked me what was new with me lately and I had told them I had recently graduated from college and with honors, despite suffering from crippling depression and suicidal thoughts throughout college, and one of them wondered what the heck I was doing there if I was so "successful". But I had not told them of other facts such as I have basically no friends, no social or love life, no dreams, goals, ambitions, do nothing with my life, a severe recluse, etc. If they knew these, they would understand me a lot more and empathize and sympathize more. Just as I get confused when I see seemingly happy people who have everything in life are miserable, self-harm or even kill themselves and I can't understand it. Because I cannot see their personal demons, only the good they project onto others. I only see the mask of happiness they put on for others to hide their misery. Only I truly know all the good and bad in my own life.

Maybe a lot of people know too much about the good things in my life, and not enough about the bad, so they think I am doing better than I really am. I am doing terrible.

Its all a matter of perception. I will look at people who may be "worse" than me, and find anything positive left still in their lives just to use against me. Such as with many poor Indians who live in slums in India who I have seen and my dad tried to compare me to them to make me feel better. I will look at them and notice most of them are still happier than me, despite lacking many material comforts I have. I will point out they still have friends and family who love them, whereas I have only one friend and my nuclear family and I am at a risk of losing them soon. I don't focus on their abject poverty to make myself look better in comparison and feel better. First, that seems highly arrogant but also my depression convinces me that everyone else is better than me and its becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy as it keeps me from advancing in life while my peers march ahead, so then I truly do become a "loser" that my depression has told me since the beginning that I am.

It is just amazing the power of an attitude which can turn someone in the most squalid of conditions into a happy person who may get out of it someday, like it did to my dad. It can also turn someone who has all the material comforts at least, into a miserable, empty hulk who may lose even those things and then have nothing left in the world, like myself.