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Abortion Questions

Discussion in 'I Have a Question...' started by 41021, Apr 17, 2011.

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  1. 41021

    41021 Banned Member

    Is it normal for someone who has had an abortion, to be;

    asked if they want a photo of the baby
    to be given a remembrance packet with the baby's footprints, weight, height, etc
    To be asked repeatedly and even later called, to find out about burial
    To be asked the name for the death certificate (not only at the time of the abortion but to later be called)

    I don't need any judges here, i am simply seeking facts. We don't need to get into a discussion of when life begins etc blah blah. i'm just wondering what a normal procedure would be.

    ...and no, the mother and father did not want an abortion. The father does not even agree with abortion to begin with, but he did believe he needed to be supportive, and now feels he paid for the murder of his child especially after what they went through. They were both left feeling suicidal. It was quite traumatic, even more so in light of their youth, the above experience, and they had no clue what was happening. Fuck, and of course the secrecy of it all which only serves to breed guilt and shame.
  2. nolonger

    nolonger Well-Known Member

    I'm unaware of abortion protocol in your area but it seems pretty odd that this is happening. I'm mainly surprised about burial as I didn't think you neccisarily(spelling) buried your baby. Same goes for the death certificate, I never knew they even did them for abortions?

    I wouldn't think that you would be given a 'rememberance packet' because it seems a bit insensitive to me. It would add the the whole craziness of the situation. You should be able to refuse it(I guess?).

    But all in all, I would have assumed that the hospital/clinic would get you to sign several documents and then take the baby to be disposed of(unless you wanted to bury it etc).

    That was probly no help what so ever, but there might be some sought of abortion hot-line around that you could call?
  3. 41021

    41021 Banned Member

    Are there abortion hot lines? I honestly have no clue.

    okay, so i am not nuts thinking this was all rather unusual? I mean i've only known one other person to have one, and it was a back alley style where she almost lost her life. I don't know what these clinics do. I do know the parents had to fend off protesters who station themselves at the clinic.

    It was so traumatizing to these children. The father, who was devastated as it was, kept trying to run interference...trying to protect his loved one, trying to keep them from asking her questions about photos, name for death certificate, burial etc...and now they even call her at home.

    I mean, they normally bury the baby? Get a death certificate? It just seems odd in my head.

    I tell you, if they receive one in the mail (death certificate), i suspect one of the parents will not survive this...if not both.

    I've seen the packet, i am holding it for them...tiny little footprints and all. It's rather upsetting. I've cried my eyes out, had nightmares, and the parents...it's far worse what they are going through as they are but children.
  4. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    This sounds like the sort of bullshit that might go on in conservative parts of the United States, where state legislatures make laws to prevent abortions by antagonizing the women going through them without breaking federal law. I can't imagine it happening elsewhere.

    Where are you from? Did the mother want an abortion? It's not clear what you said.
  5. 41021

    41021 Banned Member

    BINGO on the area :sad:

    This area...ugh. I went through such culture shock. I did not know anything like this existed, and i am not referring to the abortion, just life in general. You would not believe what it is like here. What goes on here. It's not 2011 here. It's not civilized.


    The mother did not want the abortion. She wanted to give the baby to someone who would adopt the child and there were several good possibilities including relatives and the baby's father.

    The thing is, her parents are good christian ppl who would disown their own child for being pregnant. Pro lifers (which don't get me wrong it's their choice) who would condemn abortion (none of this makes any sense in my head at all). Parents had already disowned a sibling for making some perceived error (not a pregnancy). This young girl wants to go to a top university and has the grades for it, and she thinks she needs her parents blessings and support to do so. She also does not wish to be disowned having witnessed what her sibling went through. Oh, and yes, this young couple did use three forms of protection. Shit happens though. Methods fail. Life just is...it happens.

    These kids had no clue. No clue about the procedure. No understanding at all. They were trying to be so adult about it. Admirable...i mean they tried so hard. It required they go to a city many hours away and more than once. He drove around trying to find a place for her to rest after she had the first part of the procedure. Just so sad. Heartbreaking actually.

    I do not understand parents who are not approachable. Parents who would abandon their child when they are most in need of support, love, guidance. WTF???
  6. nolonger

    nolonger Well-Known Member

    I had the same feeling. It seems way too "look you just killed a baby" to be innocent. Far as I know, people don't usually bury their abortions.......because depending on when you get an abortion, there can be very little to bury. And they don't present a death certificate because nothing really died, per se. Not in the general term where something has been out of the womb for a period and 'lived on its own' or what ever.

    The whole situation is a suicide waiting to happen if you ask me :unsure:.

    EDIT: for some reason, in the US, abondoning or 'disowning' your children seems to be a big thing. Wtf is with that??
  7. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    I can't actually figure out how this is possible. I talked to a friend of mine who follows state legislature bullshit on this sort of thing and she doesn't know of any of those things being state-mandated - and a state-mandated death certificate wouldn't be figured out over the phone.

    An abortion clinic wouldn't go out of its way to harass patients.

    I'm wondering if there was some asshole with access to clinic records who put this all together. Was the remembrance packet direct from the clinic? I can't see that happening. If it was mailed afterwards, it could have been from someone with access to clinic info, and it wouldn't require actual access to the fetus, since they wouldn't know their fetus' footprint from any other. And most aborted fetuses don't have footprints, I didn't think.

    Please contact a pro-choice organization in the area and see if this is typical. This sounds almost illegal.
  8. dazzle11215

    dazzle11215 Staff Alumni

    get in touch with planned parenthood. this is harassment. i've never heard of anything like this happening (here in canada). sounds like a anti-choice group got a hold of her info.
  9. 41021

    41021 Banned Member

    Here is the deal. It was through planned parenthood. This clinic works with a nearby hospital. Clinic patients are given paperwork and instructions on what to do in an emergency and which hospital to go to. This state recently passed a law to ban abortions past i believe, 21 weeks (my brain is current crap). This baby was about a week shy of the six month mark, potentially viable. Yes, he had little footprints. I have them. The girl went in, had the stuff inserted to dilate her cervix, and the injection of med/withdrawl of fluid via abdomen. She was then supposed to return the next morning for the rest of the procedure.

    I get text that night; She has a fever what do i do? The boy has not slept in days. I gave him a list of things to watch for/emergency situations. Told them to locate nearest emergency room just in case, to get fluid in her, and find a thermometer. He says; i should stay awake and watch her? but i have to drive several hours back tomorrow and i don't know if i can. I told him sleep next to her, if something goes wrong it will wake you up.

    She goes into hard labor. They take the info packet to the assigned hospital (set up by the clinic)...contact the clinic doc who shows up late, All the paperwork says this is an abortion. Everything on the chart says; ABORTION all over it. This is not the first time a client from planned parenthood has had wound up at this same hospital who obviously has some contract with them.

    I think there was either some serious miscommunications, or perhaps it's that ppl who work in hospitals don't sign up to be part of abortions...although the clinic works closely with this particular hospital.

    Oh, so they are told she has had a miscarriage due to lack of sufficient amniotic fluid. WTF?? WTF???????????? COME COME???? WTF?! It's in the records she has given them that she has been prepped for an abortion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I let the boy believe this or he would not be alive right now. If he knew the details of this particular procedure it would kill him. So, okay, you can believe she would have miscarried anyway. They remove a certain amount of fluid and i don't know if it was the salt method or the drug one...sorry, i know this is gross...but it's reality. it's what fucking happened to two kids who never wanted to go through this because of bullshit fucking parents.

    The girl is intercepting mail being sent to her parents. She is of legal age of consent and used his address. They are calling her home. The abortion was very expensive, and now a hospital bill added to that which they are hounding her for. They still call for a name for the death certificate, still call about a burial. This poor boy told everyone, he explained to everyone what was going on and it killed him inside to keep doing this to protect his loved one (his girl), as this was his son he was losing and the love of his life he was trying to protect and do right by....it was on all the paperwork; ABORTION. Planned Parenthood. The docs name from planned parenthood. Even the planned parenthood doc was there at the hospital...the same one who started the process earlier that day.

    They are absolutely devastated. She went to school the day after and then worked that night. They went to prom a week later. I mean...this situation just tears me up.

    It just seems like it's not supposed to work this way...and i really want to know how things are supposed to work. A death certificate? For reals? I keep telling them, it was not supposed to happen this way.
  10. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    Contact some other branch of Planned Parenthood. This is NOT RIGHT. Maybe contact the ACLU if necessary.
  11. dazzle11215

    dazzle11215 Staff Alumni

    you're right sounds like a miscommunication at the hospital level. did she follow up with Planned Parenthood adn tell them what's been going on? I'm sure they will advocate for her. They are a good organization.
  12. 41021

    41021 Banned Member

    thank you. i will.

    I needed some kind of reality check about this.

    It just did not set right with me. It didn't seem right at all. These kids were doing the best they could...trying to do what they believed to be the right thing, trying to be responsible, etc and wound up devastated, horrified, in shock, and seriously depressed.

    A photo? Is that so one can show people; Hey, wanna see the baby i aborted?

    The two kids are not handling things well, i can get permission from her though, to contact planned parenthood. If she opens her mouth to speak, she falls to pieces as does he. I mean they completely fall apart. I will see if PP will advocate on behalf of this young girl.
  13. Chargette

    Chargette Well-Known Member

    This is so sad for this young couple. It's especially hard when one cannot turn to their parents, whether it's fear of the parents or feeling ashamed to go to them. I've seen plenty of both reasons.

    This makes me wonder about the quality of counseling that planned parenthood provides.

    As for the info from your first post that is not something that would come from an abortion provider; they do not want to provoke opponents. Since she did go to a hospital where the term miscarriage was used, this perhaps sounds like a follow up of a commercial interest (funeral business?). Were there accusations accompanying the questions they received?
  14. 41021

    41021 Banned Member

    They were in such distress i do not think they could have recognized an accusation. Neither were on the defense in any way. They were scared, confused, trying to be adults, trying to do the right thing, and they were trusting the more experienced adults around them; hospital personnel and PP. . FFS, they did not even understand the procedure. They cannot even repeat to me the process, except in simple terms, as they themselves did not understand it at all. They don't even know the method used...i had to piece that part together based on simple info given me. For instance; saline solution? drug? they don't know. They didn't know about the amniotic fluid being withdrawn...none of that.

    The boy, all he knew was his girl was suffering, and being hounded by; do you want a picture, a remembrance packet (they were given it despite his pleas), etc etc. I'm wondering maybe the hospital does not know what to do with the remains of the infant (?) yet they work with planned parenthood so i cannot fathom that. Both were called to an office to give the child's name...good grief. The boy finally named his son, yet he was unprepared for any such thing. It was difficult for them to make this decision, and now they are so confused. I was asked today, if i could see about having a cremation done? WTF? When they made the decision, they had the resolve, the attitude they were doing what they believed to be the right thing and it should have been done with the least amount of trauma to anyone...difficult enough to deal with, for some people. Yet now the way they are viewing their forced decision, is as if they are murderers...I am totally angry at the parents. LIVID. Oh, and they can tell no one. They cannot speak to a single person about this. They have no one to talk too.

    Do they really issue a death certificate? Am i the only one having difficulty with the thought of this? I know they must issue one, in cases where there is a live birth ending with death, but this was not such a case.
  15. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    No they do not issue a death certificate. A death certificate is required only if there's a birth certificate to put a close to the public record, and the birth certificate very obviously is not issued in the case of an abortion or miscarriage.

    A death certificate is a public registration. The parents would have to do it in person and sign forms. They cannot do anything involving a death certificate over the phone.
  16. 41021

    41021 Banned Member

    while at the hospital, just prior to discharge, they were called to an office to handle the death certificate. They were in shock when asked for the baby's name. They did all the paperwork just not the name. The hospital continues calling her so they have a name to put on this death certificate. I am concerned they will mail her a copy. She will utterly fall to pieces if this happens, she is already shattered. The boy is in even worse condition yet will not show it as he is attempting to be strong for her...strong supportive. To be a man about it, although he is yet so young himself.

    Thank you. I did not think this was standard procedure but having never been in this type of situation, i could only go by what an average person might think...and i thought this was wrong.

    I think the only reason they are holding it together and have not jumped off a bridge, is i've allowed them to believe she would have miscarried anyway although i know this not to be true. I feel horrid doing so...i know i know it is wrong but these kids are so fragile and it's the only way they are finding a way to cope.
  17. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    Was it done in Tennessee? There was a bill put forward to issue death certificates for miscarriages and abortions in Tennessee... I didn't think it passed (I also didn't think that Tennessee bordered Missouri). If this was the case, this is an example of state legislatures harassing those getting abortions :|
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2011
  18. Chargette

    Chargette Well-Known Member

    Planned parenthood is supposed to fully inform the mother of the procedure so she can make an informed decision.

    I think in addition of not accomplishing the above, they dropped the ball in coordinating with the hospital.

    This young couple needs professional, compassionate mental health care now.

    Their parents are going to see a serious change in them and they will find out.

    I think they need to have an alternate, safe place to live.
  19. 41021

    41021 Banned Member

    Missouri, arkansas, tenn. all close together there.

    The girl's parents won't notice the change but they may end up intercepting calls and letters.

    She is so humiliated, grief stricken she will barely talk to me...and no one else. She leans on the boy and he is falling to pieces.

    They do have plenty of safe places to stay but...:sad:

    The boy saw the baby too. He was already grief stricken.

    I'm trying to put things together in my head. I really think the hospital and PP need to be apprised of this situation. Major well known hospital. There is only one place in Missouri to obtain an abortion, to the best of my knowledge, and only one hospital coordinating with PP (and now also George Washington University has worked some deal to learn abortions at this hospital, or some such thing).
  20. chipper

    chipper Well-Known Member

    No judgments... this is just an initial reaction when i was reading the thred:

    isn't that a contradiction?
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