Addiction to Victimization

Discussion in 'Suicidal Thoughts and Feelings' started by Inspire&Inquire, Feb 17, 2015.

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  1. Inspire&Inquire

    Inspire&Inquire SF Supporter

    I believe much of suicidal ideation, in many cases anyway, has to do with self-victimization. People want to be made the victim they choose to present themselves as helpless and or people who can not help themselves. The more addicted they get the harder they have to work to get people to feel sorry for them, they go to more extreme measures, until some attempt suicide, and some do - in part because they imagine the tragedy they will impart on others. I used to do this, I used to get this kind of high in traumatizing other people with my hardships. That's why I think this is a real condition.
     
  2. Adam

    Adam SF Supporter

    I do not agree with your blanket assertions of 'many'. That is not congruent with current understanding of suicidal ideation. What you have described instead is a subset of suicidal ideation with strong histrionic features. I.E over exaggeration for the sake of attention. Regardless that need for attention can still prove fatal. So maybe the attention is warranted.

    The current understanding on suicidal ideation is simply summed up as Psyache. Mental pain that seems without end. This is the core risk factor that drives suicide.
     
  3. Dewonderland

    Dewonderland Well-Known Member

    I think I will agree with Adam.

    Some people might victimized theirselves. But even those people I am pretty sure that 99% doesn't do it on purpose. Just they probably feel like it's always turning bad and they can't see when something goes right. But they are probably scared, worry ... and you don't think about killing yourself just to get attention.

    That is true that it's a way to call for help. But it's not attention ***** action. It's people in great despair ... that feeling you have when you can't breath anymore.

    There might be some people pretending they want to commit suicide because they want attention. But even that might be some actual lack of affection and even if that's not the way to do it, sometimes people just don't know what they're supposed to do.

    But I really think that you don't go to such a desesperate way out just because you want more friends on facebook. : /
     
  4. Butterfly

    Butterfly Pokémon Master Staff Alumni SF Author SF Supporter

    I think the majority of people who feel suicidal would do anything not to feel that way and do not see themselves as victims, just people who would do anything to stop those dark, suicidal thoughts. Many people find themselves in unfortunate situations that bring about their depression and suicidal thoughts, other people have chronic mental health conditions that bring about acute suicidal thoughts who are more at risk of actually attempting suicide. I guess that there are people out there who are suicidal for "attention" but that doesn't make them attention wh*res, I would suggest that if that is the case then there are real psychiatric issues behind that person which does need immediate attention, so it's not really their fault that they behave that way, they have a real illness that needs attention. Just like anybody else with a mental health condition.
     
  5. Inspire&Inquire

    Inspire&Inquire SF Supporter

    I noticed something when I was young for instance my mother told me one time she said "I don't love you, you know that?" I said "whatever mom, are you going to kick me out." she paused and said no. And then I said "are you done?" And she walked away. Then some years later my friend was talking about his mom and he said. "I swear Jennifer - (his mother) - doesn't love me". And told them about how my mother told me that to my face, but it doesn't matter because she didn't kick me out. They all looked at me as if I had some axe stuck in the back of my head that I was oblivious to, and the strange thing is I never felt sad up until that point. It didn't matter until I saw their reaction That made me feel bad. The trauma was in how other people reacted. I think a person can get addicted to that feeling of trauma - which makes them want to victimize themselves in order to get that high. So please don't say "I'm so sorry she would say that that to you.", or "Your mother doesn't sound like a good person." That's the kind of response that elicits a feeling of trauma.
     
  6. Freya

    Freya Loves SF Staff Member ADMIN

    Just because something is true for you does not mean that it is true for the majority at all. There are things in my past that were traumatic and I can assure you that I was traumatised by them BEFORE I had ever told a soul.

    As a piece of self analysis, your views may well be valid. Do not suppose that other people necessarily respond in the same way that you do. Certainly there are some people who get addicted to sympathy and embellish/lie in order to garner it, but without knowing exactly what they have or have not experienced, you have no way to know whether that is what they are doing and to simply assume that it is, is quite simply rude.

    If talking about the past and people's reactions to that talk traumatises you, you must take the actions that are right for you to deal with that. Many many many people find talking and sharing to be an extremely effective coping strategy and find the peer support here beneficial. They are welcome to do what THEY feel is right and helpful to THEM.
     
  7. Inspire&Inquire

    Inspire&Inquire SF Supporter

    I suppose even if I do see this kind of self-victimization going on, calling people out on it only feeds that narrative more. Since its such a rude thing to do , everyone feels sorry for her or him only perpetuating the narrative further. I suppose I write this in support of all the supporters to know when to change the subject of conversation. I just recognized this possible phenomenon yesterday, and it was like a flashbulb moment. I've kind of lost interest in this support forum as a result. I don't believe for the most part its healthy to dwell or fixate on your own problems.
     
  8. scaryforest

    scaryforest Banned Member

    people don t know what to say to 'whatever' for most part

    the high you get is bc someone pays attention and cares, even if not so many words

    if you get off on their pain and worry, get help, it just adds to suicidal thoughts and isn t the main cause
    you need to look deeper

    however, interesting thought flow
     
  9. smwhorses

    smwhorses Well-Known Member

    Wow, I guess you do not see the whole reason behind this forum and suicide help lines or any other entity of this type.

    I needed someone to talk to and listen to me to keep from suicide, I found it here. I am still suffering from depression but it helps to come here and talk to people who feel the same and especially those who have managed to get better.

    When we answer a post most of us are not "fixated" on our problems but want to reach out and connect to another person.

    I thank each and every one who has ever talked to me and those who simply took the time to read my posts.

    :thank_you: :hug: :thankyoukiss:
     
  10. scaryforest

    scaryforest Banned Member

    agree with horses somewhat.
    the solereason of being here isn t idle chit chat, though it can occur and that s ok too when it does

    just bc people talk of problems doesn t mean they haven t got anything else going on
    and doesn t mean they re not clued up on other things and world
     
  11. Acy

    Acy Mama Bear - TLC, Common Sense Staff Member Safety & Support

    People who have been traumatized and who are not allowed to tell about what has happened to them are being victimized in another way by the ones who won't listen. Essentially, not listening says, "It's not important. Grow up. Suck it up. Get over it. What's wrong with YOU?"

    One of the most important, supportive, empowering things a therapist or counsellor can say to a client (or that a friend/loved one can say to another) is, "Tell me about that." It shows someone else cares, believes, wants to help. Some people have been so badly hurt/traumatized that telling their story once isn't enough, so they tell it over and over until they can cope with it. It's kind of like grief...you cry the first day, and a year later, it might still make you cry. With significant trauma and loss, the sense of hurt and life-shattering experiences don't just dissipate in one go.

    Acknowledgement of someone's feelings/situation is not the same as reinforcing the trauma. "Sounds like that hurt" "You said it made you sad. I'm sorry." "It's hard to go through things like that. How are you doing now?" are all supportive statements that acknowledge the person's feelings/situation without pushing the person back into the trauma. It's called empathy...walking in someone else's shoes and having a sense for what they feel.

    Of course there will be some attention seekers in the world. I would wager that most of the over the top attention seekers come with a cartful of issues that makes them feel a need for sensationalism in order to be heard...and not that they want to be the victim of their stories. We can all fall into feeling sorry for ourselves - who else will? But most people here are not just self-appointed, attention-seeking victims. They are people with real issues and real feelings and who ask only to be heard.

    Really...Wow. Just wow.
     
  12. Inspire&Inquire

    Inspire&Inquire SF Supporter

    What I'm talking about is the response, when your traumas get validated by someone saying something like "I can't imagine the pain you must be going through right now" that means the person can internalize that as being pitied, it validates the reason for their wanting to commit suicide. So in my opinion that's the worst way to respond to someone like that even though it sounds empathetic. There are so many ways you can respond to someone. just open your eyes to this, if you see it going on maybe you can direct the conversation somewhere else. Because as long as you recognize that this is possible that people can be addicted to victimizing themselves and are getting a high from imparting trauma on other people do what you can to redirect the conversation. I am convinced this is a real thing because I used to do it myself. In my experience the person who is being talked to is harmed more than the person doing the talking.
     
  13. scaryforest

    scaryforest Banned Member

    those people are ones who re healthier then
    hence they can t relate
    and the stuff they think they re meant to
    bc the people who relate or know anything bout such pain will not say that for most part

    we shouldn t let ignorance or lack of empathy affect us
     
  14. Inspire&Inquire

    Inspire&Inquire SF Supporter

    That's not what I would advocate for. If you say suck it up. Imagine what that does. It only solidifies her or his position as the victim, she or he can go to others and say. "What a cruel thing this person said to me after I told them about my problems he told me to suck it up." Its counter productive. A better way would be to say "What do you like? what do you like to do?" Or talk about some upcoming event, "spring is around the corner, I wonder what festivals are in my area?

    No I don't believe much of what psychotherapy does is helpful. It depends on what the person talks about, if its just about talking about problems for which the patient has already decided their are no solutions, then it becomes about dwelling about problems. And developing a narrative of being the victim. Good psychotherapy is task and event oriented. Talk about things you like, you're looking forward to plans for the future. Or better yet just to plan during these meetings.
     
  15. scaryforest

    scaryforest Banned Member

    as far as psycho therapy goes i am in that boat. like nothing can help me
    but i do not feel like a victim. i must be rare according to your theory.

    so if healthy people don t get us-- wtf do we ask them for help for. the attention? the: yes you are so ill am so sorry for you? DO NOT go to healthy people or listen to them- problem fixed
    ill people can make us feel just as shit

    or am i miswording or not understanding what you are saying- i do have troubles with this too sometimes
     
  16. Inspire&Inquire

    Inspire&Inquire SF Supporter

    Its not something that's easily fixed, its an addiction just like drugs and it can be powerful. But its not all cases, there is mental illness, but also I don't think its a good practice to identify with your pain, as I have in the past. I used to get comfort in the feeling I got when I thought of suicide. Like it was something beautiful a good way to go. I used to clasp to reasons to kill myself, the tragedy of my life, I thought of methods that would be poetic. From experience I believe the practice of suicidal ideation is unhealthy, as is general fixations on things that make you want to commit suicide. People can't solve your problems, they can only feel along with you. They might not feel the same pain, but they feel pain. The question is when it gets to be too much, when empathy becomes enabling. I think this is something many people are not aware of.
    It doesn't matter if people are healthy or ill, its just important to identify when morbid fixations get to be too much, and when empathy is enabling someones narrative of self-victimization.
     
  17. smwhorses

    smwhorses Well-Known Member

    When anyone becomes very despondent anything anyone says can be taken in a negative way. That does not mean we should stop trying to reach out nor that the person looking for help/support/just an ear should stop writing or talking.
    What might seem really straightforward to you and a simple solution to my situation might make me feel like killing myself (this has happened to me). I still find support in people who listen even if what they offer would make me feel worse.

    All we can do is to try to be supportive. What level of support someone may be open to is very individualistic. I would rather offer too much then not enough.
     
  18. Inspire&Inquire

    Inspire&Inquire SF Supporter

    I agree with you for the most part, but you have the power to choose what to support. You can support negativity, you can support suicidal ideation, you can support the narrative that the person is a victim. Or you can support their interests, support their life, support happiness, their individuality and their well being. Sometimes its a waiting game, you have to wait until the person says something you can support. When interacting with the person its very important to be careful not to support the things that harm them. In many cases, any reaction at all can do this.
     
  19. Miss Invisible

    Miss Invisible Well-Known Member

    I agree with you, Acy. I have to say responses from trauma in my e opinion are not addictive. If, in my case, it was addictive in response I would have never held my pain in for 27 years before releasing.
    Traumatic pain is not easy to express, and making that first step to talk about it shouldn't be labeled as being a "victim" or addicted to a "high" from supportive responses. It was in finding these forums I found the support I needed in the past week to support my decision to get therapy and start my first conversation. None of this was through a victim stance but in survivor mode.
     
  20. Acy

    Acy Mama Bear - TLC, Common Sense Staff Member Safety & Support

    I just wanted to post something here that is from another member's recent thread. This is kind of both sides of the story - someone who wasn't able to speak for a long time and how it helped them when they did. This member has told me that they do not see themselves in the role of victim now that they have been able to deal with it.

    I am so pleased this member was able to tell their story and find a supportive place irl so they could heal. I hope that SF members who need support find open minds and caring hearts here. :arms:
     
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