animal rights

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by music_addict, Jan 18, 2008.

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  1. music_addict

    music_addict Well-Known Member

    Humans are horrible. The atrocities they commit to animals on a daily basis are sickening. Slaughterhouses are nothing but havens for torture. How can anyone eat meat? i seriously dont understand how people can continue to
    support the meat industry.

    Animals just want to live their lives in peace. they want to roam and be free and do want they want. They dont want spend their whole life in a tiny cage just to be hung upside down and have their throats slit while still fully conscious. Just to feed some people who dont need the meat in the first place.

    And animal testing, now thats a whole new level of depravity. Scientists rotuinely vivisect animals including dogs, cats, monkeys, and rats wothout any type of anesthetic. They just tie them down and cut them open. Experiments have been done where scientiste put 2 day old rhesus monkeys in sensory depravation chambers for up to a year, just to see if they could induce clinical depression in them. They have also amputated and blinded baby monkeys to see what effect it would have on their developing brains. All in the name of science! Truly truly disgusting.

    and dont even get me started on hunters. sick fucks, that what they are. Here in the U.S. id say that about 99% percent of hunters do it purely for fun. FUN! Killing a living, breathing, thinking thing for fun!
    It fucking infuriates me. and no one gives a shit. Whenever i bring up animal rights to people they just laugh at me and tell me that animals are for humans to use as we please! Wahat a bunch of fucking shit!

    But anyway, those of you who eat meat, hunt, or support animal testing, how can you justify yourselves. I'm generally interested in how you can somehow feel that any of it is right.
     
  2. Dave_N

    Dave_N Guest

    Hi Its all too much. I understand that you care very much for the well being and ethical treatment of animals, but hey, what can we really do to stop hunters, scientists and meat eaters? I know that chickens are tortured and have their throats slit. I've seen the Pamela Anderson video, in which she shows how they are treated. But I still enjoy eating chicken. Does that make me a bad person? I think not.
     
  3. LostMyMind

    LostMyMind Well-Known Member

    I'm a meat eater. Just because I eat meat tho that doesn't mean I approve of how the animals are treated. If there was something I could do to make the process less cruel that would be great but I don't think there is.
     
  4. MrDepressed

    MrDepressed Guest

    I to am a meat eater and thoroughly enjoy it, and I will echo my fellow meat eaters here that I dont support animal cruelty, I would much prefer eating the spoils off of a organic farm for both meat and vegtables than to consum what is sold in the grocery store, fact is though it cost more.. allthough the main portion of my meat diet comes from my gf family who hunt and butcher their own kills and than fill the families freezers... I am horrified when I hear tales of americans/japanese hunters that come here to Canada and pay thousands of dollars to have a guide take them into the bush to hunt for nothing more than a rack or head for their wall or collection.
    And allthough I dont agree with much of the conduct of how science has approached animal testing, I am glad that it has existed, allthough it needs an ethical upgrade to practice in areas... I would much prefer a mouse be tested upon for things like cancer or other ailments than my brother, sister, mother, father, aunt, uncle, etc or your family.
    I also believe that each and everyone of us can influence change even if it seams small and insignificant to others.. but I do not support someone who uses scare tactics to influence change, be that in religion, government, science or animal rights.
     
  5. Random

    Random Well-Known Member

    I do eat meat. But I don't eat it very frequently. And when I do, I give some thought to where it came from. I realize what happens. But I have to accept that. I don't go out and hunt animals down and get the blood on my own hands so somebody else has to do it for me.


    I can't imagine what kind of person could kill helpless animals for a living. Day after day. I mean, how would you live with yourself doing that? Thinking about it? I don't know who to feel worse for. The animals or the people who have to kill them to make a living. I don't imagine many of them actually enjoy it. The ones who do are probably sick and can't help themselves.

    But anyway. When I eat meat, it's a special occasion. I don't just thoughtlessly consume it. The animals would die one way or another. I could stop eating meat tomorrow and adjust my diet to make up for most of the lost nutrients. But there are a lot of people who won't. Who don't even care in the slightest. Those are the people I wonder about.

    And by the way. I think humans still have a long ways to go on how we treat one another before we get too concerned about the way we treat animals. Because sometimes, we don't treat our fellow humans much better.
     
  6. Darken

    Darken Well-Known Member

    I agree . We can get past this problem though, being vegan is a start. What should stop humans from doing what we do to animals to other humans? Usually nothing, cause when people believe animals do not have rights and can be used and abused as we please. That is the kind of sick mentality that leads to destruction, war and apathy. We will have to get past this primitive brutality eventually.
     
  7. I agree that the treatment of animals is an abominable situation. But mass-production is a speeding train that's hard to stop in an ultimately consumer driven society (not to mention globally). You can make yourself better informed by doing some research (simple as googling!) and not buying products that go against your beliefs, as well as protest to the companies - Now that would be proactive...

    However, I'm wondering, and I'd like to ask - do you/ have you ever worn leather? Shoes, boots, bags, belts? Do you drink milk or injest any dairy products (where cows are enclosed and injected with hormones to increase production, and literally produce day in and day out)? Do you eat eggs, or vegetables (often growth enhanced with bone-meal or fish-meal fertilizer - or other chemicals, also tested on animals beforehand)? Do you/have you ever taken any medications/drugs/treatments/vitamins (which were inevitably initially tested long-term on animals before being given to humans)? Do you wear make-up, use hair colour, or use any personal hygiene products, any lotions, creams, sprays, perfumes (again, all initially tested on animals to find out if there are reactions)?

    Again - just wondering...
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2008
  8. Darken

    Darken Well-Known Member

    Regardless of how many ways animal products are mixed in with other things. Animal cruelty and suffering must be minimized.
     
  9. rojomi

    rojomi Banned Member

    i care about animals too; i'd rather be vegan, but have health probs & limited budget which make it difficult to get enough protein w/ out animals. i prefer to limit it to fish, but the person i live w/ eats pork mostly:duh: . Its gross-because pigs are very intelligent animals, plus when you eat them, they're not good for you. i would never dream of eating a dog or cat-but hungry people do.
    we're omnivores, carnivorous by choice.

    food in general grosses me out a lot lately-maybe i'll lose weight!
     
  10. music_addict

    music_addict Well-Known Member

    I am sure I have unknowingly used many products that had were tested on animals. Although I AM Vegan and do not wear any pelt or skin of a living thing, So no eggs, dairy, or leather. And i have never intentinally used a product that was testen on animals, and i do avoid many companies that i know to endorse animal testing of their products (which you assumed I was ignorant about apparentely, frankly thats insults me).

    But thats not the point, I never claimed to be a perfect person by any means. All I'm saying is that the current state of affairs regarding animal is deplorable, and doing what you can to help (ie. not eating meat, not supporting animal testing) is a small price to pay to help these creatures live a better life.

    BTW, the whole point of my original post was to ask how you justify your actions regarding the topic. But instead of answering me, you just turned it around and started trying to any fault you could in me. Its seems you are trying quite hard to make me seem like a hypocrite or somehow worst than you. Really quick to turn defensive. Perhaps you are trying to justify your actions to yourself? But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.
     
  11. Sorry - I guess it did seem I was attacking you (you're obviously quite passionate about this issue, and rightfully so - as well as informed). But I truly was merely asking - and perhaps rather more in general... For most people, I would safely venture to guess, are not in the least aware of (and furthermore, may not care a wit about) the absolute pandemic (and long-time) use of animal testing in myriad ways, nor of how the mass-producing 'food' industry conducts itself in the treatment of animals (though there is a growing awareness of some of these issues).

    Honestly, I confess I CANNOT "justify" my own past ignorance, and even now being aware of what goes on in greater depth, I cannot truly sanction my habits... However, I do not have the means (timewise or financially) to go out of my way to farms that produce livestock 'humanely', for milk and milk products, or eggs or meat (both of which I eat very little of), nor places that offer produce that is not tainted in any way whatsoever by chemicals or GMO's. Nor do I have the means or time to investigate all the many products I use (though I probably use far less than many others do, as I try to live as simply as I can, and truly despise marketing and the consumer society that we live in - which yes, I too am part of)...

    Nor do I have the means to find definitive and viable alternatives to all the various medications I must take (and presently including cancer treatment). The cost of all these things, for me as well as many others, sadly, is simply prohibitive, and we are forced to live within our means - if we want to live. That is the present reality...albeit tragic really and truly.

    If I had my druthers (sigh), and the means, I suppose I would buy myself a plot of property and go 'back to the land', which is how my parents grew up in an older Europe, as farmers of livestock and produce. But those days (and the opportunities) are sadly long gone - or at the least, few and far between - as the world becomes more and more industrialized as well as 'globalized', not to mention the vast and powerful (and all too often, indifferent) influences of corporations - also pandemic.

    ...And so long as the vast majority of us see the use of animals justifying a means to an end, in whatever fashion, and that we are infinitely "superior" to (and exclusive from) the estimated 30 billion other species inhabiting the planet with us (which superiority I dare say is and always was rather a 'global' perception, before we could grasp what 'global' even meant) - so long as we perceive ourselves as Masters instead of Stewards (some even referring to and holding the religious 'entitlement' of the former - and even Stewardship merely being the best case scenario, the 'lesser of evils'), little indeed is going to change.

    And yes, I am part of this vermin too, this veritable plague called humanity (Mea Culpa), now near 7 billion of us - this, no matter my very best efforts, available to me, in trying to consciously minimize the damage I do while here... (and there is no 'penance' that will absolve me of this confession... I live, breathe, and sleep with guilt)

    :mad:
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2008
  12. Smashed__

    Smashed__ Well-Known Member

    I eat meat, wish I could be a vegitarian/vegan but I doubt i ever will be.
    I am not for animal cruelty or animal testing in bad conditions.
    I am an avid animal lover, and pet owner.

    on that note I support animal testing to a point, medical improvements are about it and even then there has to be a good enviroment and they need to be treated as humane as possible. makeup, hair products, lotions..etc is just rediculous. Before i'm called a monster, I also support human testing. The prolem with human testing is we can speak, scream, and fight for our 'rights'. animals can cry all they want but cannot speak out.

    I am sure I owe my life and all the meds/treatments i've gone through to animals. I know ferrets (one of my favorites) are routinely used to help develop/test flu vaccines- because I recieve one yearly doesn't mean I love them any less.

    I suppose this didn't justify much of anything but I tryed explaining how I look at things.
     
  13. tesseract

    tesseract Well-Known Member

    Let me ask you a few questions please...

    Firstly, doesn't man, count as an animal?

    Secondly, may other (non-human) animals hunt, eat meat, etc? Because, you don't see them in nylon and stuff. Your quite simply, saying Humans, shouldn't eat meat, but other (non-human) animals, have the right to do so?

    So, you think the human being is completely different, don't you. Damn right it is. We are superior. We are cruel. Yeah, and we have every right to be so.

    Also, the name of the topic seems strange to me. Rights? What rights? They don't have rights. Do you know why that is? Because they live in Anarchy. The stronger animal lives, the weak perish. Its called evolution. We are stronger. We live.
     
  14. The fuck we are superior!! We're simply the most persistent species, in our very short existence, to continually and ignorantly annihilate everything around us. THAT is ANARCHY (though we prefer to call it "civilization").
     
  15. tesseract

    tesseract Well-Known Member


    Okay.. So were not superior then.. So, on what right do we cut out trees? Eat meat? Eat vegetables? Live?

    No, in Anarchy, the Tiger could choose to fight back. Oh yeah, it cant. So its a monarch, with human on top.
     
  16. Esmeralda

    Esmeralda Well-Known Member

    Of course we are superior to animals! We are vastly more intelligent, we create art, music and literature. We pass down traditions and information to our young. We organize charities and homeless shelters, we have a written language, we invent things and develop medicines and treatment for disease. True, morally some of us have a long way to go, but there is no doubt that we are superior as a species.
     
  17. tesseract

    tesseract Well-Known Member

    This is why we have the right to be cruel.

    However, nothing is forcing you to exercise that right.

    Nature is, a large force. So is our intelligence. They should be in harmony. Neither extremes are correct.
     
  18. Darken

    Darken Well-Known Member

    you say we are superior and yet we act just as barbaric as animals. We don't have to be cruel, that is not the future of humankind. We should respect other life forms and treat them decently. What will it take to make pro animal abuse people see that? Maybe if a equal of superior race started mass slaughtering and torturing humans you would realize how evil it is. shit, just looks at wars and genocide through out history, according to your logic all that was perfectly acceptable? I'm not against eating meat god dammit your totally missing the point. It is that if your going to eat meat have a little decently towards the creatures you're eating, just as you would want some thing to do to you.
     
  19. Esmeralda

    Esmeralda Well-Known Member

    I agree with you there. I really wish the farming industry was more humane. The sick thing is that the government is driving small family farms into poverty and forcing them to sell their land. The small farms actually treat the animals much better, allowing them to roam around and not doping them with hormones, etc. I do my best to buy organic whenever I can, ditto for free-range and cage-free products.

    But I really never understood people who are pro-choice and yet so concerned about the animals. Both the unborn and animals are entities that cannot protect themselves and so need our protection. I'm not equating the unborn with animals (as I'm sure you know), but both are essentially at our mercy.
     
  20. I find it amusing/ironic that the OP as been conspicuously absent for quite some time (yet posting "Meat Is Murder" by The Smiths on other threads. I can't help wonder if they also do songs about ubiquitous/pandemic animal testing in just about everything we - including herself - consume or use...).

    Occurs to me that she is not passionate after all (which I had 'kindly' ventured) - but merely self-righteous...Just like any other garden-variety fanatic.


    Matthew 7:4 "... how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye?"

    (sorry - couldn't resist) :wink:

    Yet here's another quote that sadly rather sums most of us
    up to a "T", throughout our history:


    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man” - George Bernard Shaw
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2008
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