Answers on a postcard.

[me myself and i]

Anger,Hate,Guilt,Self-loathing,Rejection, Insecurity,Sexual Mania,Loss.

I have had all of these recently.

I am trying to workout if a person is born evil and there is no stopping this.
Or maybe they have been influenced by their past too?

At what point are we allowed to accept and forgive a person for the wrongs they have done to us?
If we don't, then its you and me that carry these emotions.
Some might say a person never deserves forgiveness.
So does that mean we can never forgive ourselves too? Especially if it was not our fault in the first place?
I am confused on this issue at the moment.
Say someone did bad things to either of my children, im not sure i could control myself, the desire to take revenge would be too strong.
But what if that person who hurt my children was once hurt themselves?
What if that person had been conditioned and just couldn't change?
What i am asking is............... does a person have to be just plain thick not to know they are doing wrong............ or do they know, but their lust is in control not their mind?
"Sorry" is just like any word, meaningless without actions.
Do we need to hear the word?
Do we want to see proof of the word through actions?
Or do we ignore it all anyway, choose to forgive and hold our own hearts for letting go?

 

[dazzle11215]

you ask so many great questions.

oprah says forgiveness is for us, not for the people who harmed us. i haven't forgiven my abusers so i'm not certain what she means by this. she says it frees you from the past. i'm still too hurt and angry.

my dad grew up without his father but i still think he knew better. he was a smart man. he was a university professor. yet he still humiliated us and hit us. he could have chosen to get help for his drinking and for his temper, and yet he chose not to. i think he felt entitled. entitled to be king of his own domain. and we were all his servants.

forgiving myself is another story. i can't even do that. the worst part of my story is that there were times that being sexually abused felt good to me. my body responded and i even had orgasms. maybe that encouraged my abuser to continue. maybe in his mind that made it right. i am working so hard on this issue in therapy. my therapist tells me that our bodies are designed to respond, especially if we are overstimulated... it's bound to happen. she says it does not make me responsible for what happened. i'm trying hard to believe her. but i'm not there yet.

thanks for posting. i''m interested to see what other people have to say on this subject.

 

[me myself and i]

I think Oprah means that by forgiving yourself, you are letting go of the past, therefore finding freedom.
As far as the abuser goes, forgiving them but not their action?
Dunno, like i said, very confused.

 

[Julia-C]

I am trying to workout if a person is born evil and there is no stopping this.
Or maybe they have been influenced by their past too?

The scientific answer is yes and no. Genetics play a roll as far as creating the type of person who has the propensity or disposition to be insane. However, ones environment is the trigger. Hope always exists, but there is always an exception to any rule. No one is born evil, but everyone has evil thoughts at one time or another. What we choose to do with those evil thoughts determine who we become. If we let evil pass through us we don't become evil. If we dwell on the evil thoughts, and then make them part of us, we then become evil. The most evil of us chose to embrace evil, while the rest of us chose to avoid it.

At what point are we allowed to accept and forgive a person for the wrongs they have done to us?
If we don't, then its you and me that carry these emotions.
Some might say a person never deserves forgiveness.
So does that mean we can never forgive ourselves too? Especially if it was not our fault in the first place?

The simple answer is, only when they change who they are. However, forgiveness and forgetfulness is two separate subjects. Only we can choose when it is appropriate to forgive. I wish forgetting was a choice. I wish I had a better answer. We will carry the emotions no matter what.

Say someone did bad things to either of my children, im not sure i could control myself, the desire to take revenge would be too strong.
But what if that person who hurt my children was once hurt themselves?
What if that person had been conditioned and just couldn't change?
What i am asking is............... does a person have to be just plain thick not to know they are doing wrong............ or do they know, but their lust is in control not their mind?

We all have a choice and freewill over our own actions. Being a victim doesn't give anyone the right to victimize another person. We all can choose to let the cycle continue, or choose to let the cycle end. I have a theory about what causes the continuation of a predator victim cycle. Most victims of abuse are assaulted by their own family. Meaning that if there is a genetic cause of mis-wiring of the brain, it's likely passed on to the victim through genetic transference.

Also there is the emotional growth or lack of growth that could help perpetuate this cycle. The age a person is when they become a victim of sexual and/or physical abuse is often the point at which emotional maturity within that individual stops to naturally grow. Such horrible abuses seem to stunt the emotional development, thus that's a lot of the purpose behind professional help.

Regardless, a conscious choice is made when someone becomes the assailant. No one accidentally rapes or molests. They made the choice. In the case of my dad, he knew he was wrong. He only did the things he did while he was drunk. He knew the alcohol diminished his will to make the right choices, but he still continued to drink. It all come down to choice.

I have often heard people tell people who was raped or molested to not let it turn them into a victim. People don't understand that being a victim isn't as easy as turning on and off a light. Although we have free choice, we don't have the power to turn off or on our own feeling of victimization. We can choose to do the hard, difficult job of working through our problems. Choosing to impose upon ourselves the effort and work it requires isn't as simple as a light switch either. It takes time, it take determination, and it takes person emotional resolve. We all have a hidden strength inside us which we can call on when we need it the most.

If I had children I would protect them with every fiber of my being. I would like to say that I would let the law handle punishment for those who hurt them, but honestly I don't know what I would do.

I wish I had better answers for you. I wish I were better able to explain my opinions in these matters.

 

[icequeen]

hmmm at a basic level everyone deserves forgiveness i just think its the degree of forgiveness i am unsure of, depends on the "crime" as some things are just unforgiveable.

there are many examples of evil acts in the world committed by children, who you would assume would know right from wrong so you could say that they were born evil through faulty wiring, then you have people that can go through life without a glitch and then something snaps and they can commit all sorts of horrors, its such a grey area, you can have meds that can alter your personality and perception and do bad things. myself, i have days i havent a clue what i am doing, and days i just want to do something outrageous (out of character).

there are truly evil people in the world just because they are evil and have no conscience, and then there are people who do evil things because they had no control but have a conscience...there are just so many variables.
i think the first step is to forgive yourself to remove any self guilt, if you dont forgive yourself how can you forgive others.

sorry..rambling..not thinking clearly to explain what i am trying to get at :zombie:

 

[Terry]

I forgave, but only after they were dead.
Had something happen from forgiving, a kind of epiphany.
After forgiving all the venom I had carried for years just washed away.
But you touch my son.....I kill you!

 

[me myself and i]

hmmm at a basic level everyone deserves forgiveness i just think its the degree of forgiveness i am unsure of, depends on the "crime" as some things are just unforgiveable.

there are many examples of evil acts in the world committed by children, who you would assume would know right from wrong so you could say that they were born evil through faulty wiring,

Now then, thank you so much Icequeen.

Brilliant point, there are children who have done evil things.... just for the sake of it.. Jamie Bulgur springs to my mind.

So, anyone................... my op mentioned being born evil..................... discuss?

 

[MoAnamCara]

MM&I

thank you for your post... I can't respond eloquently at this time (perhaps I'm not eloquent at all, ever!) but I need a brain that is functioning perhaps a little better than mine is today.

You've raised a lot of points, questions and thoughts - and good ones. I have thought about some of what you have raised also.

I'll get back here at some point to respond better, but in the meantime, take care of yourself today.

 

[me myself and i]

Had something happen from forgiving, a kind of epiphany.
After forgiving all the venom I had carried for years just washed away.

Thats what i want.

 

[icequeen]

ok ..are we born evil? no i dont think we are directly. we can be born with faulty wiring with dysfunctional parents and maybe just screw up, for example, i come from large family, both parents hard working and honest and acceptably strict with hindsight..yet youngest bro is a total waste of space and both sisters are evil and selfish, yet neither parent had a selfish bone in their body and were as honest as the day is long and i was never aware of any favourtism growing up, altho my father was Polish and in a way boys could do what they wanted and girls did the work, but that only applied to me [big age gap before i got sister] (and i dont regret that) so its hard to blame upbringing else we wld all be bad. i think its just a mix of being born with a fault some where that just waits to misfire. i blanked the crap that happened when i was 11/13 and then as i got older i realised how selfish and dishonest my sisters were which was upsetting as i grew up with boys. blah blah...you wont get a definitive answer...you can put people through the same process but you cant guarantee they come out the same. damn...babbling again...

my youngest bro was spoilt rotten and was cute i have to admit, but as an adult he is the most horrible purpose i could ever wish to meet, along with 2 sisters that i gave a home to...used and abused!

so no...sometimes people choose to be bad for selfish reasons and blame others...sometimes they born bad unexplainably...and sometimes they are influenced by others...and sometimes they are bad cos they enjoy it.