Anyone tried positive self-reinforcement?

#1
I don't know what else to call it except positive self-reinforcement, meaning having a positive internal dialogue. I constantly have thoughts of, "you're stupid, you should kill yourself, you're worthless," etc. I'm wondering if anyone has had any success with the opposite, i.e. telling myself that I'm a good person, I'm loved, etc.
 

Woowoo

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#2
I don't know what else to call it except positive self-reinforcement, meaning having a positive internal dialogue. I constantly have thoughts of, "you're stupid, you should kill yourself, you're worthless," etc. I'm wondering if anyone has had any success with the opposite, i.e. telling myself that I'm a good person, I'm loved, etc.
Yes, it's something I do. During CBT I was advised to challenge negative thoughts which I initially did by writing them down and looking for evidence that proved or disproved those thoughts. I now have a lot of internal dialogue with myself. If I make a mistake I'll still think 'I'm crap' or 'I'm useless' but then I'll remind myself 'You're human, you just made one mistake, it doesn't make you useless. Everyone makes mistakes' and I'll try to remind myself of the good things I did and all my positive qualities. I think it helps me.
 

Aurelia

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#3
I don't know what else to call it except positive self-reinforcement, meaning having a positive internal dialogue. I constantly have thoughts of, "you're stupid, you should kill yourself, you're worthless," etc. I'm wondering if anyone has had any success with the opposite, i.e. telling myself that I'm a good person, I'm loved, etc.
What you are talking about is actually positive affirmations. And to answer your question, no, I don't believe that they work. You can tell yourself certain things all day, but if you don't truly believe them, it's hardly going to make a difference.

What does work, however, is building new pathways in the brain that help you develop new beliefs and let go of the old ones. To do this, one must create new experiences and try to look at them objectively rather than with the subjective bias of one's old belief system. Science says that about 45 days of creating a new, repeated experience creates a new pathway, and ultimately, a new belief.

As for positive reinforcement, I do also believe that could work as well. Positive reinforcement is rewarding yourself for having done something you normally wouldn't do or didn't like doing.
 

Woowoo

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#4
I largely agree with what you have said @AsphyxiateOnWords and think that behaviour change and positive reinforcement are probably more effective at relieving depression. However, I do believe that positive affirmations can work. In the same way that if a third party keeps telling you you are worthless and crap you will eventually believe it, I think that if you tell yourself something often enough you will probably start to believe it eventually too. There is also quite a lot of academic research to support the idea. Cascio et al 2015 did some interesting research which showed that self affirmation increases neural activity and positive action.
 

Woowoo

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#6
I completely agree with all the points that are being made in this article. I don't believe we can control or get rid of the negative thoughts because, as Manson says, they are natural processes of the brain.

However, I do believe we can counteract those negative thoughts through positive self talk. As I said in my first post, if I have a thought that I'm crap, then I tell myself that I'm really not. Manson seems to agree that this thinking, this self talk, is a good idea. In the article he says that he acknowledges the negative thoughts and tells his thinking mind "that it's full of shit" and then tries to act despite the negative thoughts. That's exactly what I was trying to say, although maybe not very eloquently. So me telling myself that I'm not crap is, in my view, the same as Manson's suggestion that if we have the thought that our boss is an idiot we should take possession of it and instead tell our thinking mind "My boss is not an idiot. But I am having the thought that my boss is an idiot."

I don't think any of the literature on self affirmation would disagree with Manson either. I don't think anyone has suggested that it is some panacea that, if practiced, will get rid of negative thoughts and emotions. Rather the idea is that when we have negative thoughts, we recognise that they are negative and we challenge them through positive self talk. Through doing this we can try to ensure that the negative thoughts and emotions don't control our behaviour.
 
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Aurelia

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#7
I completely agree with all the points that are being made in this article. I don't believe we can control or get rid of the negative thoughts because, as Manson says, they are natural processes of the brain.

However, I do believe we can counteract those negative thoughts through positive self talk. As I said in my first post, if I have a thought that I'm crap, then I tell myself that I'm really not. Manson seems to agree that this thinking, this self talk, is a good idea. In the article he says that he acknowledges the negative thoughts and tells his thinking mind "that it's full of shit" and then tries to act despite the negative thoughts. That's exactly what I was trying to say, although maybe not very eloquently. So me telling myself that I'm not crap is, in my view, the same as
Manson's suggestion that if we have the thought that our boss is an idiot we should take possession of it and instead tell our thinking mind "My boss is not an idiot. But I am having the thought that my boss is an idiot."

I don't think any of the literature on self affirmation would disagree with Manson either. I don't think anyone has suggested that it is some panacea that, if practiced, will get rid of negative thoughts and emotions. Rather the idea is that when we have negative thoughts, we recognise that they are negative and we challenge them through positive self talk. Through doing this we can try to ensure that the negative thoughts and emotions don't control our behaviour.
If it works for you, then surely, go for it. :) As far as his book goes, though, he delves into changing beliefs and values first and foremost. He also illustrates a loop:

Action --> Inspiration --> Motivation --> Action

So the way I see it, you're supposed to act despite what you are thinking/feeling/believing. It doesn't have to be a big action; it could be anything. And if you fail, learn from those failures, get inspired again, get motivated again, and try again. This essentially creates those new experiences you need in the end. And also, by accepting failure and not being afraid of it, you are more likely to actually succeed. Thinking you are a failure all the time is different from accepting failure though. Failing does not mean one is a failure. Failure is a good thing actually. It helps us not be so afraid of rejection. So instead of positive affirmations, he says to change your self-talk. I believe in realistic self-talk. Meaning, instead of, "everything is always wrong," saying, "yeah, certain shit has gone wrong recently, but it doesn't always go wrong and doesn't necessarily mean it will go wrong in the future." I just don't believe in replacing the negative with "everything will be okay" because that is just as unrealistic as "everything sucks all the time".
 

Woowoo

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#8
I totally agree. The positive self talk does work for me, but that's not saying that I stand in front of a mirror and say 'I will have a great life' 25 times and end up believing it. As you say, that is as unrealistic as the negative thoughts. What I just try to do is counter the negative thoughts with some positive self talk in an attempt to not believe all those negative thoughts. That makes me feel better about myself (if not positive then at least neutral). But, like you, I make sure it's realistic. 'Ok so I fucked up today but that doesn't make me useless. Everybody makes mistakes sometimes and I learned a lesson so I won't get it wrong next time.' That sort of thing.

Thanks for mentioning Manson's work btw. It sounds like he's got some interesting stuff to say so I'll look out for his book.
 

Woowoo

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#9
By the way @PrimusPilus sorry for hijacking your thread. I hope the discussion has been useful for you.

I think the key is to recognise when you're having that negative dialogue and challenge it. Tell your mind that it's full of shit. Tell yourself that you are not stupid, you are just feeling stupid, that just because you had a bad day today it doesn't mean you will have a bad day tomorrow.

And maybe you should have a read of Manson's book too. It sounds like it has some useful suggestions.
 

Aurelia

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#10
I totally agree. The positive self talk does work for me, but that's not saying that I stand in front of a mirror and say 'I will have a great life' 25 times and end up believing it. As you say, that is as unrealistic as the negative thoughts. What I just try to do is counter the negative thoughts with some positive self talk in an attempt to not believe all those negative thoughts. That makes me feel better about myself (if not positive then at least neutral). But, like you, I make sure it's realistic. 'Ok so I fucked up today but that doesn't make me useless. Everybody makes mistakes sometimes and I learned a lesson so I won't get it wrong next time.' That sort of thing.

Thanks for mentioning Manson's work btw. It sounds like he's got some interesting stuff to say so I'll look out for his book.
Yeah, I think positive self-talk is different from realistic self-talk, for sure. I try to be realistic wherever possible. I find it to be the most helpful. I can't do statements that have no evidence behind them, you know? Plus, I'm also overly analytical in every way. So if I tried to tell my brain, "I love myself," this is what would happen:

"What is love in the first place?"
"Do you know how to love?"
"What makes you deserving of loving yourself?"
"Is it helpful to love yourself?
"What benefits would it produce? Are they benefitting you, others, or both? Who do you want it to benefit and why?"

It'll just be a neverending philosophical shitstorm, lol.
 

Woowoo

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#11
Yeah, I think positive self-talk is different from realistic self-talk, for sure. I try to be realistic wherever possible. I find it to be the most helpful. I can't do statements that have no evidence behind them, you know? Plus, I'm also overly analytical in every way. So if I tried to tell my brain, "I love myself," this is what would happen:

"What is love in the first place?"
"Do you know how to love?"
"What makes you deserving of loving yourself?"
"Is it helpful to love yourself?
"What benefits would it produce? Are they benefitting you, others, or both? Who do you want it to benefit and why?"

It'll just be a neverending philosophical shitstorm, lol.
Lol, I love the way your mind works. I have lots of philosophical debates with myself too. At work I am very logical and analytical so I try to apply that to my thoughts by analysing the negative, looking for evidence to support it and then, when I can't find any, countering that with the positive/realistic.
 

Innocent Forever

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#12
Was enjoying reading the thread.....

I think positive self talk works actually. Depends what you call positive self talk. What I used to do was write to myself. Tune into the part of me that believes in myself and let that part talk to the part that doesn't/wanted me to kill myself. It doesn't work as already said, in actually changing anything. I still don't believe I'm worth it. However it's helped me tap into the sides of me that do believe it.

I love the point of acknowledge, and act against it. I've used it a lot, and say I should a lot more than I do (it's kinda with anything, acknowledge it, accept it, and then deal with it/move on. I first have to acknowledge and accept it through for else I fight it)
 

Aprilflowers7

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#13
I do not have good feedback from this because people are constantly telling me different things. Like my mother is constantly asking me about my pills this my pills that and that is all she cares about when we're supposed to have an open dialogue. I've been abused since I was born and there's no way out. My mother lies about what she does and she puts on a happy face and acts like everything is fine all the time when it's not.
 

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