Are our problems the biggest in the world?

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by Viktor, Jul 31, 2014.

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  1. Viktor

    Viktor Well-Known Member

    I would like to share my thought about this subject.

    When you felt down, depressed and someone was with you at that time, have you ever been told something like "why are you feeling so down? Look at hungry people in Africa or someone who doesn't have legs, hands, etc..."? I'm sure you all know this. And it's so easy to say such things, but things are never so easy, because even people that should be happy aren't sometime happy or are even depressed or suicidal. Like famous people like actors. In my country one of our famous singers committed suicide about 4 years ago. Well, he had lots of money, he had family, he wasn't alone, he was physically completely healthy and yet he suffered from depressions. I don't know exactly what troubled him, but there probably was some reason since it led him to suicide. And if i personally look at it, it can be hard for me to understand it. Because i have no job, i don't have money, i'm definitely not financially secured, i am lonely, nobody here for me. So people like me must think, why someone famous like that is having depressions or even wants to to kill himself? Wish i was on his place, because his life is complete opposite to my life. But on the other hand, of course there are people with worse problems than i'm having. I am physically completely healthy too. But, you know, things aren't that simple. We all have our lives shaped somehow and we are living in it. You can tell for example that someone without legs is having much bigger problem than someone with huge debts, but yet the person with depts can be screwed if he can't get out from it. Or even loneliness or other reasons that seems to be insignificant in comparison to some people who doesn't have legs or have no parents, or having abusive parents, etc. I think everybody knows that there are people with bigger problems, but you can't tell that to your brain. You can feel down from many reasons. And if it would be so easy to tell yourself that there are people with bigger problems, then nobody would be depressed. Just think before you tell to someone that he shouldn't feel down because there are people with bigger problems or that there are worse things in the life. We all know that. Nobody wants to feel down. If it was so easy to stop feeling down, everyone would do that.
     
  2. meaningless-vessel

    meaningless-vessel Well-Known Member

    I believe it is a perspective thing.

    Depression is a many faceted cloud - but does it cloud our minds and suck out anything good? Of course it does. It gives us a bleak perspective on things - so much so that we focus on believing that the negative things are right and anything positive is wrong.

    But with no right or wrong - how is it possible to define that through feeling down/depressed, that some things couldn't be simpler than we perceive them to be?
     
  3. Viktor

    Viktor Well-Known Member

    It all depends. But i don't believe that negative things are right and positive are wrong. I don't like to be depressed and i always seek some reason to smile. My depressions aren't caused from nothing. I'm having bad life and feeling extremely lonely. I don't suffer from depression as sickness. I am simply very sad. I simply like to feel positive but if there is no reason, i don't feel that way. People use to say that if you want you can feel positive even if your life is bad. I can't do that. I would just lying to myself and it would be just pretending because i would feel sad anyway.

    But this is not the point of what i said. The point is that we are all right to feel down even if our problems might seem to be insignificant in comparison of other people's problems. You can't simply tell your head to stop feeling down because "look, this person suffers way more than me, why do i complain". It simply doesn't work that way. If famous and rich people that are surrounded by many people who loves them can commit suicide, then there will be some true on what i said. You can't simply order yourself to stop feeling down. You need reason for that. And it doesn't matter if your problem seems to be small. It's not small problem for you. You simply feel it that way, regardless if you want it or not.
     
  4. meaningless-vessel

    meaningless-vessel Well-Known Member

    I'll stand by my perspective opinion.

    Irrespective of emotional turmoil or anything else that people can cite as reasons for it, to actually go through with suicide -> it is a choice. As blunt as it sounds, that, along with substance abuse and self harming, are all choices that people make when their mental state is not particularly stable. For the vast majority of people, they'll use what they've been through as a justification as to why they should do these things over why they shouldn't.

    Regarding the famous/rich people surrounded by people they love. Kurt Cobain/Cory Monteith didn't help their own causes with substance abuse issues. I have limited sympathy as it's a choice they've made that got out of control to do such things in the first place. (And that's 2 names that spring to mind - Amy Winehouse had known issues with substances too, before she died... )

    I have seen someone go from being in turmoil - attempting 3 times in a week -> to moving 200 miles away from where they were -> to getting married within the space of 6 years. So as blunt as it sounds - I've seen someone recover from the disdain and mental anguish of being through a number of not so pleasant situations, is my perspective likely to be different? Of course it is.

    I have been down the path of ideations myself, and I am working hard to avoid going back there. Even if sometimes I feel frustrated at the world, I know I have the capacity to control what I decide to do, (hence why I don't post about self-harming or abusing substances - choices I have power to make a decision to avoid).
     
  5. Adam

    Adam SF Supporter


    Ah that old chestnut, I have rote responses to it now. As those who express it are damn irritating. Dependent on context.

    “Well I am not those people, so are you saying I should be happy because others are suffering far worse than I am? I guess I should be ecstatic then at child molestation, rape and genocides occurring across the world as it isn't me in a ditch; tortured and killed over ideological reasons. Isn't feeling happy at the expense of others suffering purely psychopathic and sadistic? “

    I am aware this is a nasty twisting of their words but it sure provokes thought and sometimes a different discussion to the usual trite ones.

    Ultimately measuring pain this way is somewhat sick. 11 year old have killed themselves because they have failed their exams. People in chronic pain and fated for slow deterioration kill themselves to go with dignity. Regardless of the source of pain the result can be the same. A coffin. To measure that way is sick, to also measure that way also has at its core an almost invalidation. You should not feel this way because it is far worse for starving people. So not only am I depressed but I am also insulting starving people by being depressed...

    I can twist that too if I am going to be lectured on happiness.

    “I don't recognise you as being an authority on happiness, you are not the happiest person in the world. As such your views on happiness are irrelevant.”

    Whether suicide is a choice or not is a complex grey area. It is why the law has definitions of mental capacity. But I can't be bothered with that discussion on choice. Or the side issue of medicalisation of justified misery. You would have to define the meaning of choice any way in the first place.

    Viktor you ever going to respond to System?
     
  6. Viktor

    Viktor Well-Known Member

    I know. I did read it. I'm sorry i didn't respond yet. I am in big stress now. I will be moving next week. But i will respond to it. Tomorrow or later today i guess.
     
  7. Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut Guest

    Best wishes to you. You deserve the best.

    You've pretty well explained everything. Hungry Africans are remote. People who have it all may yet not have what they want, because the longing in their heart cannot be requited no matter what. Debt is a modern equivalent to lions, tigers, & bears. It can indeed put you to a life of homeless shelters and other nowhere places.

    Finally, your last point: If it were so easy to stop feeling down... What that means is a high probability that you will struggle with whatever is bothering you for the rest of your days on earth. It's just like that, for every human. That which is permanently with us doesn't go away as we wish it would, nor will medications, therapies, gurus, self-help systems, and the like ever change that fact. I'm guessing that is what "growing up" means, when we realize that we must live with limitations and keep our chins up anyway.

    But medication and counseling might help you some, if you're in a bad patch right now. We are fortunate that it exists, and it would be silly not to take advantage of it. In the USA many antidepressant drugs can be gotten for $4 per month at Walmart stores.

    Still, best wishes to you.
     
  8. Citizen Insane

    Citizen Insane Chat Pro SF Author SF Supporter

    Not being able to provide in your basic needs or a situation where there is a lack of body parts... Very different from being hurt mentally by a depression for example.

    You can ask yourself where to draw the line. If I happen to lose my little pinky toe in my lifetime, should I compare it to another person losing his index finger? Both have different functions and persons who are missing an entire hand in most parts of the world, for example, are still capable of providing in their basic needs.

    It's like they're saying that people who lost a body part(s) are depresssed all the time because they are moderately impaired in their functioning in the daily life? If they have an average working brain, they could still provide themselves with more than just the basic needs. I don't feel bad for people missing body parts or for people who are starving every day.

    It's like they're saying that people who do not have enough to eat and/or are starving every day have a real reason to be depressed. Like being depressed is a choice?

    Depression is a mental illness that has no true cure (yet). It's not a choice to be depressed. You can't just wish and will it away with your will power. If it was that easy, depression would not even be a mental illness.

    The problem is that people compare depression to simple, less complex sadness. The people who haven't had to face mental illness/depression in their lives yet are under the impression that if they feel down or sad, they just need a good cry or someone to support them and everything will be fine after that.

    With depression feeling down doesn't stop no matter how good you are at thinking or controlling inner feelings.

    Back to the starving people: Even if those starving people at some point get enough to eat and drink... will they have a reason to be truly happy?

    It's a classic pitfall to compare a mental complex problem to a simplified physical issue.

    You can accept that you lost a hand and will have to go through the rest of your life differently in a physical way. While not being able to supply yourself in your basic needs, like starving, it is a physical need. The outcome is death, by starvation. And so what, I say to myself? People die all the time, in more horrible ways than just that...

    To enter the philosophical side of things... I have to say that: Things die all the time, it's not a way of life, it's just the way things work. I do not have a relation with a starving child in Africa or whatever. I do not know what it's like to die of starvation and ... To the person comparing things: You do not know what it's like to have depression.

    That's it. That is all.
     
  9. NYJmpMaster

    NYJmpMaster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    Sorry - while i agree that it is pointless to tell a depressed person to just cheer up - I disagree about where the blame lies. In general when we are very depressed we become self absorbed narcissists that are too busy complaining and talking about how bad we have it to listen or care with more than a passing thought to anybody else about anything. Suddenly after depression sits in we decide we do everything for everybody and nobody does anything for us and that our life is sad and awful and there is nothing anybody can do about it- when in fact the only thing that has changed is our attitude and not everybody else is having it easy - they simply are not depressed. That is why it does not matter if rich and famous or dirt poor and alone all can feel suicidal- and the suicidal is simply our reaction to a situation - it is NOT caused by a situation no matter how bad or people would be killing themselves by the thousands everyday and not holding on for years.

    While it is useless for people to say just get over it, it is silly to believe that our own situation or sadness is somehow special or different than anybody else as well - we just like to believe it is so we have an excuse for what is often inexcusable behavior towards other and the guilt and emotional blackmail we put onto others simply because we can hold it any more ourselves.
     
  10. Adam

    Adam SF Supporter

    No worries man, no pressure other than my curiosity to see your thoughts and tap your capable mind. You certainly have a mind that definitely is busy analysing things almost constantly. You draw a lot of negative conclusions though. So the question is how accurate are they? Do you see any positive at all? What practical steps are you taking to over come the loneliness or lack of job? Or general all round stressors of life? My inbox is open if you want to chat. Moving is also very stressful. Can you identify what is causing you the most stress about it?
     
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