Arguing with myself

Discussion in 'Help Me! I Need to Talk to Someone.' started by Leocorde, Jul 25, 2016.

  1. Leocorde

    Leocorde Member

    Suicidal ideation has been a real struggle for me lately. I've been suicidal for about 10 years, and been hospitalized several times for it, even institutionalized. It's always been an emotional response. I've never really finished the job (obviously) because I either didn't do enough damage or didn't have the strength/courage to see it all the way through. But something has changed and it's not for the better.

    What I'm going through recently has been a change of motivation, and it's scaring me a lot. I've switched from an emotional push to a rationalization. I already know what the emotional side of me wants to do, but I know (for my own safety) that I shouldn't trust it. Then one day I started looking at it rationally. That's the way my brain has worked for a long time; I weigh every argument for an against and wait for one side to tip past the other.

    So I'm going at this rationally and the "end it all" side is starting to win. It's easy to ignore the emotional reasons because I know they're not good for me, but the rational reasons are starting to get very dominant and they're hard to look past.

    What I mean is; I mostly trust my logical brain because of how much I've developed it, so I have to listen to it. I've been making two lists; one for and one against, and there's a lot more in the "for" category than the other. Since I know my logical side to be more or less trustworthy, I'm coming close to a decision.

    Would someone else please weigh in here? This is really different for me. It's easy to be talked out of an emotional response if you calm down and listen to the person trying to support you (and trust that person). Now, however, I rationalize the whole thing and talking to anyone (like a support line) becomes a debate instead of display of care and support.
  2. IamTetsuo

    IamTetsuo Well-Known Member

    The rational mind is, in my opinion, not half as rational as it would like to think. People can rationalise anything in their own heads depending on where their starting from and where they want to finish. I would imagine that your rational judgement of the situation is slanted by your emotional state, in a diferent emotional state you would reach a different 'rational' outcome so it is your emotions which are the real issue. I think paying attention to your emotions is more productive because they can show you what is wrong in your life. The mind likes to play mind games.

    It is great that you have noticed this change in yourself beacause you can see the pattern and take a step back, awareness is key.
    SillyOldBear likes this.
  3. Leocorde

    Leocorde Member

    It might sound crazy, but I like to think I'm keeping the two separate. I agree with you in part that the emotional side is fueling the rational side to come to a particular conclusion, but I can't help agreeing with some of the arguments I come up with in the "for" column.

    It's really a struggle for me because I'm rationalizing it and agree with my rationalizations. The things in the "against" column aren't doing a strong enough job of out-weighing the rest of it, and all of that comes from a normal debate, not an emotional drive. At least that's how it feels.

    The worst part is that I'm not scared about it, which is what makes me think I'm deciding on this entirely logically.
  4. SillyOldBear

    SillyOldBear Teddy Bear Fanatic Staff Member Safety & Support

    Leocorde, I understand logic and its role in life. I tend to be rather logical myself. But human beings are emotional creatures. Emotions cannot be denied. Our lives would truly be empty without them. We are not Mr Spock from Star Trek. And he actually turned out to have more emotions than he wanted to acknowledge. Please don't deny emotions in your life. There is a place for them all. And often, one emotion, can over ride all the logical reasons a person can come up with. Stay with us and keep up the fight.
  5. Leocorde

    Leocorde Member

    I appreciate and respect your concern, but like I said, the emotional side has already decided and the logical side is already leaning the same way. The only reason I haven't done anything yet is because the logical side believes I need to weigh the decision a little bit longer.

    I plan to call a hotline again tonight, but last time they couldn't convince me either...
  6. Leocorde

    Leocorde Member

    Well it didn't work. I'm still on course for the wrong decision.
  7. brknsilence

    brknsilence Well-Known Member

    Please keep fighting and don't give up. If you find yourself being unsafe, can you please go to your nearest hospital so they can make sure you're safe?
  8. Leocorde

    Leocorde Member

    I don't know. I've been in the hospital many times, sometimes by checking myself in and sometimes by ending up there after the ER. It's never really worked for me. Not only did I not get better while in the hospital, but I fell back into the same position after being discharged. Usually I get so bored in there and so tired of not making any progress that I talk my way out to get discharged. Perhaps the doctors weren't smart enough to realize they need to keep me, or I'm just too cunning. But it's never really worked for me and I have no faith it would work this time either.
  9. brknsilence

    brknsilence Well-Known Member

    I understand where things seems not to be improving. Please don't give up hope. Know we are here. Is there someone that can help make sure you're safe?
  10. Leocorde

    Leocorde Member

    Not really. Normally I'd put myself near someone who would keep an eye on me, but I feel all alone and I'm not willing to reach out to anyone right now.
  11. brknsilence

    brknsilence Well-Known Member

    Here for you. Please don't give up. Hugs
    SinisterKid likes this.
  12. Acy

    Acy Mama Bear - TLC, Common Sense Staff Member Safety & Support

    Leocorde, you noted in a post above that you are "still on course for the wrong decision." That you are thinking of it as a "wrong decision" suggests to me that perhaps you're not sure it's the choice you really want to make. (I hope some part of you is still self-preserving and non-destructive!)

    Suicide is permanent and it puts an end to any and all opportunities for a person to live a better and good life. Choosing life means we have to take the risk that we will learn to manage even when things are not perfect. Life goes around from good to bad to good to bad to good...over and over. Perhaps if we focus on what is good (even if it's not much or for long), we can feel less like ending life and more like living it. The good comes around eventually. Life doesn't stand still.

    You are reaching out - here on this forum. I don't know your reasons for feeling suicidal. Most times, a suicidal person just want to stop hurting - whether it's from fear, anxiety, embarrassment, shame, sadness and so on. Please don't allow a bad time from the past or even from today to decide for you that you don't have a future. You seem intelligent and thoughtful. It would be a sad thing to lose someone like you. *hug*
    SinisterKid likes this.
  13. Leocorde

    Leocorde Member

    I've given myself a few days to mull it over, but I've been in this opinion for the last several weeks so I don't know that things will actually change.
  14. NYJmpMaster

    NYJmpMaster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    Mulling things over while changing nothing would be odd if the end answer changed. Is like mulling over a math problem - but always having the same answer. You need to change some factor in the equation or the end result does not change. You are in effect saying you are just waiting to suddenly feel better about what you describe as a bad situation, and that is not likely to happen. Medication and treatment can help get the over reaction factor to reduce, but ultimately, either the situation or the way you are responding to the situation must change if you want to feel differently about it. You cannot control other people's thoughts or actions, so those aren't on the table for you to change, you can control both your own thoughts , and your own actions. Since there is no real detail on the situation I can't give any ideas of what to do or look at , but that is where you start.
    SillyOldBear and SinisterKid like this.