Atheists arguments

Discussion in 'Opinions, Beliefs, & Points of View' started by Bostonensis, Apr 24, 2008.

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  1. Bostonensis

    Bostonensis Guest

    This thread will be exclusive for Aetheists ,Agnostics & the OpenMinders only.

    If this is not appropriate please feel free to delete.

    As a I do not intend to discriminate, it is my desire that as non believers we can support ourselves from being demonized ,ostrcized , downright treated as lost people. Too many insults ,here is a place we can listen & pour our disgust from religionism.

    I start.
    When I openly admitted to my friends that I could no longer go with them to the pew becoz I can no longer stand to be a hypocrite to myself, I almost lost all of them.

    Few transformed into my guiding light & call me everyday to proslytize me. I am sick of it. But I have a very special relationships with a lot of them. I cannot imagine to see all of them gone. The frienships for me is meaningful & I want to keep it away from religion. But on the other hand ,I feel insulted each time I hear God loves you. Okay Okay he loves me I have no problem with that . I am aggravated from time to time but I treasure the friendship part. I wonder how you guys get treated by the religious culture. And what is the best tool to keep the subject non combative & argumentative.

    Unloading zone ;open 24 hrs.
  2. Hmmm...interesting attempt - let's see how far this can go :wink:

    I prefer to engage in ongoing dialogue with those who, well, may try to foist their faith on me (and some are indeed far worse than others). That's the best-case scenario. I don't necessarily like to belong to one category or another, but I suppose I'm agnostic in the sense that though I have felt connections with "A higher power" (or best description of said phenomenon - like "The Universe" maybe), I would never presume to say that I have the market cornered in knowledge and experience. But when I bump into someone who insists that they, and they alone have all the correct answers, I try to laugh (to myself) and let them go on their merry (sanctimonious) way.

    It's a given I'm never going to "change anyone's mind" - especially one that is already closed to begin with. It would be as presumptous of me to try to do so, as they already are in trying to change mine. But dialogue - that I will go for...(of course, at my choosing)

    I remember one encounter I had standing at a bus-stop - with my nose in a book (this still makes me smile). Out of all the other people waiting for the bus, I could "sense" someone lurking. Sure enough, they came up to ME and asked enthusiastically "Have you been SAVED?!". Without lifting my nose out of the book, I simply answered "Yup."

    Of course that wasn't enough, so they also asked, "So, you believe in Christ the Savior and Redeemer??" Again, I simply answered "Yup."

    Frig - no one can take a hint, eh? Once more they asked, "So you believe in the redemption and eternal salvation through accepting Christ the Lord??"

    Last time (YEESH) - "Yup"

    FINALLY they walked away!!!!!!

  3. Random

    Random Well-Known Member

    I haven't had a great deal of trouble with religious people openly trying to "convert me". Unfortunately, today, they do this in a round about way. They realize it's useless to try and convert a person who can actually ask questions they can't answer in a face to face kind of way.

    Instead, they try and inject their religious beliefs into the laws that we all must live under and unfortunately, they either don't realize how utterly wrong this is or they don't care. In this way, they are still forcing their religion down my throat and I don't appreciate it.

    I'm actually agnostic so I would normally have more sympathy for them than the average atheist might but I don't like it when people want to control the way I live my life.
  4. theleastofthese

    theleastofthese SF Friend Staff Alumni

    I so agree with Random. I hate that some very fundamentalist want to inject religious beliefs into our laws. We have the separation of church and state for a good reason. I feel very threatened by people like this as I don't feel that anyone should tell me what to believe and how to believe it. And I hate having any viewpoint shoved down my throat. If someone lives their beliefs it's easy to see without needing to talk about it constantly.
  5. Spearmint

    Spearmint Well-Known Member

    Ah, I suspect people push their religion on others because they want them to conform to societies little boxes that everyone is in. :unsure: I, personally, am an Atheist, and a few of my friends can't seem to grasp that concept, and instead invite me to church, and constantly say they'll pray for me. I've told them time and time again that I don't believe in god, yet they feel the need to push Christianity on me. I find it ridiculous and annoying. :dry:
  6. Lead Savior

    Lead Savior Well-Known Member

    When I was younger (high school years), I considered myself an atheist. I think it was because I was angrier back then. I naturally gravitated toward the sciences academically, which I felt necessitated questioning of faith and the supernatural.

    In college I took a philosophy course, a section of which was devoted to something called "logical faith" that has since stuck with me. The instructor brought up the basic arguments such as the stone (could god create a stone so heavy that even he could not lift it?), and then suggested for the faithful in the room that they adopt logical faith: retaining faith while admitting that there is a reasonable possibility that there may be no god. It didn't go over well with believers (as unconditional faith is a cornerstone), but I thought it was an acceptable muzzle on the maws of those who would claim their belief system to be 100% factual.

    I turned logical faith around and applied it to my own beliefs: I did not believe in the existence of a god, but I retain some reasonable doubt in the back of my mind and accept the possibility that there is a god. That makes me an agnostic, which is perfectly fine because my gripes are against organized religion and the disgusting polarizing/hatred effect it has on people, not against personal relationships with god.
  7. Sylar

    Sylar Well-Known Member

    If anyone knows I don't believe in god here I have pretty much a 90% chance of getting kidnapped and beheaded for being an "infidel"

    yeh that's what you get for living in a muslim country , if my contacts ( they're not friends ) know also they would never talk to me again and hate me even more than they do now ..
    I'll be also thrown out of school and nobody would want to hire me for any job
    so I pretty much keep it to myself
  8. Ah, SHIT!!! I cannot even begin to imagine what that must be like!!!

    At first, I thought you might be living in the deep-south U.S. "Bible Belt" - but yours is SO much worse!!!! :mad: :sad:
  9. Xistence

    Xistence Well-Known Member

    I live in the "Bible Belt" and I am viewed as strange because I'm an agnostic. Almost everyone around here claims Christianity, and mocks those who don't. They constantly complain about being persecuted, but they are the ones persecuting everyone else.

    I can't imagine what it would be like living in a muslim country :sad: that is awful
  10. Sylar

    Sylar Well-Known Member

    well my family now knows , my older sister hate me but so little does she know
    she's arrogant and doesn't accept any different opinion at all
    it all started when my father puts islamic TV channel and see me giggle and critic the stupidity and the ridiculous mentalities shown there
    my father isn't much of a religious type he never prays or even mention god and really see my point when I discuss religion
    my mother prays 5 times each day and do all that religious crap , she's not happy about me but she's still good to me
    anyone outside the house doesn't know but since I am obliged to study islam at school I think I'm gonna speak up sometime because our teacher told us one day that muhammed said: " if a brother quit islam , ask him again , if he refuses cut his head" I was like WTF !!1 these guys will kill me !!
    she is of course good with other muslims but she hates all none muslim ones( the teacher)
    muslims think god is testing them and he promised them victory on earth and the "other life"
    till one day a jew will hide behind a rock or a tree and the tree will speak up "hey great muslim, there's a jew behind me! kill him !!" and that is not only ridiculous but for them it's an undeniable truth !
    I am not an arab but a native amazigh before the arab invasion where of course arabs were like : convert , stay in your faith and pay taxes or DiE !
    third option was the common one for them
    and you know what we've been thaught at school in history ??
    islam came to morocco by some fella that is a muhammed's relative , he introduced islam and everybody left his faith and converted , no wars no harm :laugh:

    holy CRAP !!!

    sorry for the long reply just thought I'd get this off my chest :laugh:
  11. Sylar...for what it might be worth (to you and only you), I wonder if you'd like to investigate more of the roots of your [family's/cultures] faith - truly, not for THEIR sake, but because so many formal religions get completely twisted out of context (as we already know), and often tend to suit one "version" of a belief over another. (for instance, Christianity alone has an estimated 58,000 denominations! And of course, each one thinks THEIRS is the right one!!). I know you're stuck with it all around you, but for your own knowledge (not fatih), there might be some 'peace of mind' to be found for yourself in looking at the fundamental values instead of the dogma (which are common in just about all religions - even leaving out specific deities).

    Just a thought anywaze...since you won't be 'escaping ' it too soon...(and which I still cannot imagine...)

    And btw - my very devout mother and I have finally come to peace and deep respect of each others ways of "being in the world"...I'm not saying it WILL happen...but that it can...Yet the only person you really need to keep peace with is yourself - even if you must remain quiet about it...
  12. Ziggy

    Ziggy Antiquitie's Friend

    If Christianity has 58,000 denominations people will say 'see, they can't all be true, the beliefs have been twisted',

    But if Christianity only had 1 denomination people would say 'see, they're mindless sheep, they can't think or reflect on what they believe'... Bit of a no-win situation really.

    In an ideal world, people would question their own beliefs more, and even if there were millions of denominations, people would learn more by reflecting upon the differences and similarities between them. Of course, in a not so ideal world, they'd probably all end up killing each other.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2008
  13. Bostonensis

    Bostonensis Guest

    And btw - my very devout mother and I have finally come to peace and deep respect of each others ways of "being in the world"...I'm not saying it WILL happen...but that it can...Yet the only person you really need to keep peace with is yourself - even if you must remain quiet about it...

    I am glad you made peace with your mother coz I didn't. I felt this guilt that I disappointed her. Everyday I carry it with me. I used to battle this in my head that there is probably one & I can hear my mom telling me,I told you so. For me is nothing really like what Mr. darwin said or did, science or anything,it is a very profound feeling of disbelief.

    I tried my best to keep it to myself but I can no longer be quiet. The silence makes me feel demonized , abandoned,go away, & not being able to belong. This is a very sensitive issue for me, being sick, a political critic,
    depression & suicide issues, on the top of all them ,an Aetheist? Very very isolating. there are times I felt so deeply alone, inside & out. religion.

    Literally I am an exile. The friends I build are all gone,in order for me to be with them is to go back to Mr. Jesus. Repentance. Should I fake it?

  14. Sylar

    Sylar Well-Known Member

    well I know for a fact my father's family come from a jewish root , you can tell the difference by the skin color and the race
    and since I look a lot like my father then I guess I am too
    amazigh = most have white skin , comes from jewish natives before invasion
    arab = brown skin , 100% islamic

    but races got mixed up so you find one in the other now

    sadly arabs made sure no one knows much about the natives so that's why nobody knows anything about it

    here's an example :

    I'm pretty good aslong as no one knows
  15. Bostonensis

    Bostonensis Guest

  16. Actually, I'm rather sorry (I apologize) for using the example of my mother and I having come to the place we have - as I wouldn't wish the terrible things that we both had to endure in our respective lives on anyone (not even my worst enemy). However, it is indeed a 'blessing' I am grateful in acknowledgeing - yet I know full well that many will not realistically or foreseeably receive that.

    As for Sylar - that article was utterly stupifying!! :blink: And it made me realize even more that so much information (no matter what it regards) is "suppressed" - and so often, rather "not for the good of all", but to retain, maintain, and enforce power! :mad: UGH!!!! :mad: Essentially, that takes place all over the planet in some form - though it's far more blatant (and intimidating) in your own case.

    And it's clear that you have indeed already tried to engage in your own "research" - though I hope you continue to do so whenever you can, and for the rest of you life may it be your own (one of...) passion(s). That is - if you deem them as such... (like Bostonensis' signature)

    Ziggy made a really good point, and summation ('wish I had the ability to be so "concise"! :wink:)...though I'd venture to add (cuz obviously I can't help myself!) that deliberately dividing into such a vast number (and not merely for the sake of "freedom of practice & veneration - but to presume and conclude that theirs respectively is the ultimately correct version) would (should?) invite not only self-reflection, but even humour - instead of hubris (all-together leaving out how "the rest of the world" perceives and may even ridicule it...)
  17. Allo..

    Allo.. Well-Known Member

    okay, okay I'm a christian :hiding: please don't bite my head off, i'm here to bitch a little too.

    We have people in Hobart who stand around in the city and hand out these pamphlets, sure I accept them and i read them and usually they're really strange but anyway, I hate the fact that they dismiss you so easily, it's like "here read this pamphlet, it will save your life as long as you don't as me any questions and call the number on the back insted!"

    Something that also gets to me is all the different denominations of christianity. ehhh and catholics i could shoot. BUT. People always ask me which denomination I am and I always reply with "I don't have one". Every church I have been to - and I have been to quite a few - no matter how great they are, there is always something in their preachings that I don't agree with. Most of my religion is backed up on what I believe are good things. I more believe in good morals than.. well no, I believe what the bible says but I tend to ignore the things I think are wrong. I suppose in some ways I have created my own God, a God with no flaws, because the way people talk about the christian God I often am disapointed.

    i don't think any of that made sense lol.
  18. Sylar

    Sylar Well-Known Member

    I think you're just on the way to atheism my friend
    you just have to ask yourself , where's the proof of god's existence? :biggrin:
  19. XXXXX

    XXXXX Antiquities Friend

    I used to be neutral on religion - "don't f#ck with me and I won't f#ck with you"......and even enjoyed the odd freindly debate.

    But nowadays I get increasingly angry about all religions.

    I think that neutrality gets interpreted as acceptance by the Religious.....or worse, as weakness.

    I really do not mind if someone beleives in a God, The Tooth Fairy or Father Xmas.....but I do object to them requiring me to "respect" their stupidity......let alone trying to impose their views by the backdoor through legislation.......Western Civilisation only progressed once Religion had been seperated from the State - and it was no accident, indeed it was done by folk who were not always non-believers, but done nonetheless because they could see that the Religions were a bar to well as for good old fashioned reasons of obtaining more power!

    There are lots of things I do not understand in this world - but I have never been tempted to worship the basic argument is that if their was no God, someone would have invented one (because they have been so useful on so many levels) - and all through history and in every society they have.....been invented....usually by folk who beleived in them!...but it still doesn't make them "real".

    Somehow I do not think for the average Bible / Koran basher that a disbelief in the Tree Gods of Borneo or those of the Ancient Greeks (who did at least have cracking good stories!) is contentious - or that the non-belief requires a special name, therefore I do not like to use the term "Atheist". If I have to choose a label, I elect for "rational".

    I think perhaps it is time to be less accepting of Religions and being more vocal about pointing out their be honest, I would not let them drive cars for a start!
  20. Bostonensis

    Bostonensis Guest

    Fundies ( fundamentalists) claim they respect each other religious views but if you are a disbeliever ,men, watch out. The fundies just do not accept the absence of the facts in their claims to be the truth. And when someone can rubbed it on their faces ,i guess that creates a level of discomfort /fear & that is why they escaped & blocked the facts .

    Most fundies are from that era ,like my parents , where they have no access to informations that we have now. So they are lead to believed in a blind faith. Now their brains are so ingrained & programmed to do what is stored there for a long time plus the environment/culture that validates even more.

    But with the internet, I believed that a new generation is coming to debunk these non sense of religion . Another century maybe, my hope lies in the youth of today will be the leaders of tomorrow, I can't wait to see a universe free of wars , united as one ,no more countries, indivisible by any religion.

    Wishful thinking? Nah....An Aetheist dream. Imagine there's no heaven........
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