Atheists Only...no arguments

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Bob26003

Well-Known Member
#41
Guys, we don't even know how to open wormholes or space travel yet; and you want to say that our Science can disprove a possible larger concious force we don't understand?

Hell, we don't even know what UFOs are yet or how they get here.
 

XXXXX

Antiquities Friend
#42
Guys, we don't even know how to open wormholes or space travel yet; and you want to say that our Science can disprove a possible larger concious force we don't understand?
We can't Knit an Aeroplane out of Spaghetti - doesn't mean that the God Story is true.....these things are not linked any more than the results from the NFL affect the Weather.

If ANY of the God Stories could ever be proved in any way shape or form - one of the Religions would have done so by now. The fact that nonsense cannot be disproved does not make it a fact or increase the possibility of it being true.

Hell, we don't even know what UFOs are yet
Yes we do know exactly what UFO's are. The Clue is in the name :rolleyes:


or how they get here.
Don't tell me, they are parked at the bottom of your Garden? :tongue:

IF intelligent Extra Terresterial Life Forms ever arrive then I strongly suspect their space craft won't be powered by the Tears of Baby Jesus - but I can't prove that of course:laugh::laugh:


Nothing wrong with not knowing stuff - don't be scared of the dark.
 

Bob26003

Well-Known Member
#43
Scientist always think they know everything and have the Universe figured out. And new discoveries are always made. Textbooks are constantly updated.

To say completely and utterly that there is no God is foolish and foolhearty IMO.

That implies that you believe Man has complete understanding of the Universe (or Universes) and how it or they function etc etc.

That is just crazy.

And I say this as someone who has studied Science.

But go ahead and try to explain your Scientific reasoning as to why there could be no God......

I am sure you are well-versed in theoretical physics and all the other required disciplines to even make such a claim. lol

And

Since you are such a Genius, please explain to me what came before the big bang? Is this the only Universe or is it a multiverse?

After all, to be able to say concretely that there is no God, you MUST be able to easily answer these questions after all.

lol

-rolls eyes-
 
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F

FoundAndLost1

#44
Well apparently... we unknowingly (and ungraciously) have been visited by a singular entity who indeed does know it all! :worthy:

(Hell - you know that saying..."A prophet is never recognized in his own village" :dry:)
 

XXXXX

Antiquities Friend
#46
Scientist always think they know everything and have the Universe figured out.
No they do not. That's why:-

And new discoveries are always made. Textbooks are constantly updated.
You think the new discoveries and textbooks are updated by the Pope? Baby Jesus?...........or Aliens??? :tongue:


To say completely and utterly that there is no God is foolish and foolhearty IMO.
No more foolish that saying my pet Hamster created the Universe and can travel between dimensions and through time. If I truly beleived that I would be MAD....if I only a small part of me thought it might be true I would have some mental problems. (a few more anyway :tongue:)

That implies that you believe Man has complete understanding of the Universe (or Universes) and how it or they function etc etc.

That is just crazy.
Few folk claim complete understanding. and most of them are crazy (and usually also worship stuff).


And I say this as someone who has studied Science.
Studied, but not understood.......

But go ahead and try to explain your Scientific reasoning as to why there could be no God......
Could their be a God? I will concede that Elvis could be living in an Alien Spaceship on Uranus :tongue:......but before believing or accepting it was so I need some proof - because I am rational. It's the same reason why I do not believe in Santa or Pixies. I don't need to prove the non-existence of a God - it works the other way around.

With the God Stories their is always ZERO proof or evidence - hence the invention of the cop out called "Faith".....in many respects I do LOVE religions - but only as a study and record of human nature....so much of the stuff is so clever and well thought out, albeit nonsense on a stick.


I am sure you are well-versed in theoretical physics and all the other required disciplines to even make such a claim. lol
Dude, I couldn't even spell it......and kinda ironic given that Gods really prosper amongst the ignorant - which is why Religions like their followers from a young age.


Since you are such a Genius, please explain to me what came before the big bang? Is this the only Universe or is it a multiverse?
What came before the Big Bang? A) I don't know B) I do not care......exactly the same could be said of "what came before God?".......I think the Gods existed before the Big Bang theory was created.

After all, to be able to say concretely that there is no God, you MUST be able to easily answer these questions after all.
No - I disagree, IMO if God Botherers want folk (apart from small children) to accept their stories they have to provide proof - don't work the other way around in the land of the rational.....and BTW that simply ain't contained in any scribblings by a bunch of Religous Nutters from the Bronze Age.....for the same reason I do not use their Aeroplanes :tongue:
 

Ziggy

Antiquitie's Friend
#47
Is love real? I don't believe in it. Other people do but I think they're deluded. People believe in love, people believe in God, I believe in neither of them.

People fall in love, people have religious experiences, love produces altered brain states, but then the experience of God produces altered brain states too. What makes love any more real than God?

Should I simply dismiss love as not existing then?

Now you could say 'love is just a state of mind' but then God could be like a greater mind, a universal mind, that we experience too. And if the experiences of our mind are real, then why isn't the experiencing of a greater mind also just as real?
 
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XXXXX

Antiquities Friend
#48
Is love real? I don't believe in it. Other people do but I think they're deluded. People believe in love, people believe in God, I believe in neither of them.

People fall in love, people have religious experiences, love produces altered brain states, but then the experience of God produces altered brain states too. What makes love any more real than God?

Should I simply dismiss love as not existing then?

Now you could say 'love is just a state of mind' but then God could be like a greater mind, a universal mind, that we experience too. And if the experiences of our mind are real, then why isn't the experiencing of a greater mind also just as real?
Whoa!, that's heavy shit dude!

Of oourse putting yer knob in an Electric Socket would produce "an altered brain state" :blink:.....but probably not part of any God Experiance :laugh:(I will admit I do not know all the God Stories / Club Membership requirements.......I hear that in Utah they do real weird shit :laugh:).

Is love real?.......... Well, I would have to answer that the feeling of what we term love exists....as we do physically feel it / experiance it......but that is simply a product of evolution involving Chemicals and shit in yer head to help ensure the genes are passed on.....similar pair bonding stuff happens with many other animals......but knowing how it works (me, sort of :tongue:) does not make it any less magic.

Maybe that is where the "God is Love" slogan comes from?, to piggy back on top of yet another existing human need.


God could be like a greater mind, a universal mind, that we experience too. And if the experiences of our mind are real, then why isn't the experiencing of a greater mind also just as real?
That's really cool :cool: I reckon you could even start yer own religion with that idea..........gonna have to plug the slight hole of how can you experiance part of a Greater mind that you know nothing about?


Just think how much more amazing the world is if (LOL!) their was no God involved..........
 

Agrigor

Active Member
#49
"God was a dream of good government."
~Deus Ex

"Is God able to destroy all evil, but not willing?

Then he is malevolent.

Is God willing to destroy all evil, but unable?

Then he is not omnipotent.

Is God not willing or able to destroy all evil?

Then why call him God?

Is he willing and able to destroy all evil?

Then he must not exist, for evil still does."

~Unknown
 

Ziggy

Antiquitie's Friend
#50
You may wonder what the point of my posts are as they're getting a bit strange, I'm trying to question the way we see God as being real, people compare God to Father Christmas or the Tooth Fairy, but clearly God isn't a person, it's pointless to think of Him in those terms, so should we think of God in other ways, perhaps as an energy or a force instead? So here's another way to think about God...

As we know the human mind is a mass of connected cells, now let's imagine these individual cells were conscious and could communicate. They'd give themselves names, they'd live, die, try to understand themselves and their purpose for existance.

Would they work out that they were simply part of a greater mind - the Human mind, or would they believe they were only experiencing their own minds? So in the same way isn't it just possible that all living things are part of the mind of God? Because if God is everywhere, as Christians claim, then everything must form part of God, which is what Panthists believe.
 
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XXXXX

Antiquities Friend
#51
You may wonder what the point of my posts are as they're getting a bit strange,
Methinks you (and me!) are in the right place for that :tongue:

I'm trying to question the way we see God as being real, people compare God to Father Christmas or the Tooth Fairy, but clearly God isn't a person, it's pointless to think of Him in those terms,
"Clearly God isn't a Person" - Do you know something?!! Or are you just coming up with an idea that fits for you?.......the process that you are going through is much the same as the more succesful religions have used in developing the God Story to fit with what folk will still accept given their ever increasing knowledge and ability to question Religions.....although some in the West will still accept what a fella in a funny hat says as coming straight from God, most will not simply accept everything without questioning as they would have done in Centuries past.......and instead come up with a variation that "works" for them. But this doesn't make any of it true.

Not pointless to compare the God Stories to those about Santa or the Tooth Fairy because they are all based on the same evidence for being true. i.e. Zero.

Wanting something to be true does not make it so. That's called wishful thinking.

Not knowing the answer does not make the answer unknowable, magical, extraterrestial or God based.


so should we think of God in other ways, perhaps as an energy or a force instead? So here's another way to think about God...

As we know the human mind is a mass of connected cells, now let's imagine these individual cells were conscious and could communicate. They'd give themselves names, they'd live, die, try to understand themselves and their purpose for existance.

Would they work out that they were simply part of a greater mind - the Human mind, or would they believe they were only experiencing their own minds? So in the same way isn't it just possible that all living things are part of the mind of God? Because if God is everywhere, as Christians claim, then everything must form part of God, which is what Panthists believe.
Yer can think / make up whatever yer want and makes you happy. Does not make it true......In practice and IME nothing wrong with a touch of self deception sometimes....but that is all it is.

I lost me Brother and then me Wife in Oct and Nov 07 (not why I started coming here!)......I know neither of them have "gone" anywhere - which if I am honest has both minuses and plusses.....but sometimes I pretend to myself that the Missus has gone to the Moon (she equated getting to the Moon as the top of the scale of happiness - which she never thought she would see - although she trusted me to try and help her).....it works for me cos' it is personal to her / us and is also visual and staring up at the night sky and thinking has been done since time immemorial.......doesn't mean she is actually on the Moon. Probably :tongue:

If their was a Xtian style God me brother would have gone up :biggrin:. But me Missus would have gone down :mad:.......albeit a 50/50 chance she would be roasting Satan's nuts over a BBQ rather than anything Vice Verce :tongue:......but if I genuinely thought their was even the remotest chance she was now somewhere in trouble then being on the other side of death would not matter to me - I would go and help her. Cos' I know she would have done the same for me.........took a longgggggg time and a lotta shit on both sides to get their, but once we had crossed our personal Rubicon - the River Styx would be a minor detail........

As I said in an earlier post, I have nothing against their being a God(s) and I would like their to be one.........but this alone doesn't make it true.
 
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Random

Well-Known Member
#52
Could their be a God? I will concede that Elvis could be living in an Alien Spaceship on Uranus :tongue:......but before believing or accepting it was so I need some proof - because I am rational. It's the same reason why I do not believe in Santa or Pixies. I don't need to prove the non-existence of a God - it works the other way around.
Again. Which is why I think agnostic is a better way to go than atheist. Because to be agnostic, you don't have to accept anything other than that it's possible that we don't know everything. You don't have to accept that God exists and you don't have to take a hardline against it.

Most of the major friction is between atheists and theists. I don't often find myself in seriously heated debates with theists (unless one of us is trying to be a jerk).

The only thing I have to accept is that they could be right. As I say. I think it's unlikely but who knows? I don't ask them to prove their God exists unless they expect me to believe in him. I know there is no proof but I accept that there is a lot that I don't know and a lot that I can't know.

It would be nice if everyone could just agree to disagree in this way. IOW. I would say "Don't push your God on me and I will accept that anything is possible".
 

Sa Palomera

Well-Known Member
#53
Again. Which is why I think agnostic is a better way to go than atheist. Because to be agnostic, you don't have to accept anything other than that it's possible that we don't know everything. You don't have to accept that God exists and you don't have to take a hardline against it.

Most of the major friction is between atheists and theists. I don't often find myself in seriously heated debates with theists (unless one of us is trying to be a jerk).

The only thing I have to accept is that they could be right. As I say. I think it's unlikely but who knows? I don't ask them to prove their God exists unless they expect me to believe in him. I know there is no proof but I accept that there is a lot that I don't know and a lot that I can't know.

It would be nice if everyone could just agree to disagree in this way. IOW. I would say "Don't push your God on me and I will accept that anything is possible".
Exactly my way of thinking as well :smile:
 

bleach

Well-Known Member
#56
Again. Which is why I think agnostic is a better way to go than atheist. Because to be agnostic, you don't have to accept anything other than that it's possible that we don't know everything. You don't have to accept that God exists and you don't have to take a hardline against it.

Most of the major friction is between atheists and theists. I don't often find myself in seriously heated debates with theists (unless one of us is trying to be a jerk).

The only thing I have to accept is that they could be right. As I say. I think it's unlikely but who knows? I don't ask them to prove their God exists unless they expect me to believe in him. I know there is no proof but I accept that there is a lot that I don't know and a lot that I can't know.

It would be nice if everyone could just agree to disagree in this way. IOW. I would say "Don't push your God on me and I will accept that anything is possible".
Agnosticism only makes sense to me if you take the same position for ALL things that can't be logically proven or disproven. Like whatsisname said, Elvis in a space ship, flying unicorns, dragons from another galaxy, etc., etc... if you want to be agnostic about God, you have to be agnostic about all of them. Every possibility is wide open.

If that's how you think, then fine. Certainly I've heard some good cases for it.

But if you're only agnostic towards G-o-d, it seems like bet-hedging to me.

Are you agnostic about the Thetans of Scientology? The Heaven's Gate comet/spaceship? Reptiloids? Greys? Those beliefs aren't as popular, but they are all as likely as God.

Nothing can be proven with 100% certainty, anyway. It could be that Atomic Theory is wrong. That the force of gravity doesn't exist. That the universe really was created a few thousand years ago over the course of 6 days. But I don't think the 0.0000000001% chance is worth making a fuss about.

And i don't make a fuss about he infinitesimal chance that God exists, either. I recognize the possibility is there, but it's so slim that it's barely worth caring about.
 

Ziggy

Antiquitie's Friend
#57
And i don't make a fuss about the infinitesimal chance that God exists, either. I recognize the possibility is there, but it's so slim that it's barely worth caring about.
5 billion years ago what were the chances of life evolving? Not good - but crazy shit happens.
 

Ziggy

Antiquitie's Friend
#58
Oops... posted twice by accident. Actually I'm an atheist so arguing for the existence of God is odd (but I'm not - so it's not really), Anyway I just think science doesn't have all the answers, that's all.
 
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Sylar

Well-Known Member
#59
Scientist always think they know everything and have the Universe figured out. And new discoveries are always made. Textbooks are constantly updated.

To say completely and utterly that there is no God is foolish and foolhearty IMO.

That implies that you believe Man has complete understanding of the Universe (or Universes) and how it or they function etc etc.

That is just crazy.

And I say this as someone who has studied Science.

But go ahead and try to explain your Scientific reasoning as to why there could be no God......

I am sure you are well-versed in theoretical physics and all the other required disciplines to even make such a claim. lol

And

Since you are such a Genius, please explain to me what came before the big bang? Is this the only Universe or is it a multiverse?

After all, to be able to say concretely that there is no God, you MUST be able to easily answer these questions after all.

lol

-rolls eyes-

if there's higher force or not it does not matter and its existence have never been proven
so I cannot follow a blind faith

also I am 100% sure ALL religions are false , they were used to frighten people so they become easy to manipulate

I was a strong believer myself and thought how can a person not believe in god after seeing all these perfect "creations"
came to realise why the existence of this god has never been proven and why do we have freewill if we're not supposed to use it

it's just a matter of point of view , you gotta give it some deep thought
 

XXXXX

Antiquities Friend
#60
5 billion years ago what were the chances of life evolving? Not good - but crazy shit happens.
Crazy shit happens, yeah :biggrin:

But isn't it kinda curious that every religion never mentioned this 5 billion year old crazy shit as all part of their God's great plan / design? and instead came up with alternative stories........it's almost as if they didn't know :tongue:


Is the beauty of a Sunset any the less because you know it is simply a large ball of gas?
 
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