Babies who die at birth

[Winslow]

The reason I ask this is because it often interferes with my recovery. It's because the church people always say that babies that die at birth, go directly to Heaven. I find that belief hurtful because it makes me think that all those babies went to Heaven without suffering at all--while those of us who survive on Earth have to suffer.
I'm doing alright nowadays because I want to stay alive. But sometimes stressful woes can upset me, at which time the default mechanism of suicide comes into play, and that religious belief can make it worse by making it much harder to recover. In that way, the religious belief can be hurtful, even life-threatening. Because it makes me think why I should stay alive and suffer when all those babies went directly to Heaven without suffering even one minute. So that religious belief constantly gnaws at me. And, as you can see, it interferes with my recovery. It could even be life-threatening if it provokes suicide. The problem is also that the particular religious belief is so widespread, so I think often about it.

How do I cope with this? And do any others of you have that same suicidal-difficulty with that religious belief? As I said, I ask this question because the belief always interferes with my recovery. I would greatly appreciate comments.

 

[Walker]

So what you're saying is your jealous of babies dying when they're born. Not sure what to say about that at all aside of that that's not something to be jealous of.

 

[Kira]

The problem is also that the particular religious belief is so widespread, so I think often about it.

The problem is that you believe that particular religious belief. Just because it's a popular belief doesn't mean that it's true or that you even have to believe it yourself.

That choice is yours, Winslow

 

[Brân]

I'm not religious at all so can't directly relate to what you've written about, but I can kind of get something that happens or something that's put out there in the world having an impact on my recovery. I think if a belief was interfering with it in that way, I would have to get it properly addressed with my doctor/therapist if you have one, in the same way I would address something that would trigger me to self harm - those things are gonna keep happening and it's up to me to figure out a way around them.

Obviously easier said than done, but I'd definitely get this one addressed professionally because I don't think it's going away on it's own. It's a good thing that you've recognised a trigger though, things are easier when you know what's interfering.

I wish you all the best

 

[Human Ex Machinae]

My natural inclination is to be antinatalist. But a newborn baby is .... the most amazing thing....these eyes will ever behold.

 

[Winslow]

So what you're saying is your jealous of babies dying when they're born. Not sure what to say about that at all aside of that that's not something to be jealous of.

That particular religious belief hurts me but only when I run into the unexpected woes that happen to everybody. Other than that, my toughest problem has been solved and my greatest dream came true, so I have to stay alive for that, and I do.

It's just that the suicidality is so ingrained in me that certain unexpected stresses can automatically trigger the suicidal mechanism, and that this is worsened by the religious belief of those infants. So as blessed as I am, that religious belief can be life-threatening.

So far, those who have responded to my thread do not have that religious belief at all, so I think it would be better if the respondents are those who have that belief.

So rest assured, Walker, I'm not suicidal. Every day, I express my gratitude to the Universe for the Ultimate Gift I received last December. I call it my Ultimate Gift because it gives me the Ultimate Joy when I use it. The Ultimate Joy comes from action and accomplishment.

That's why I said the gnawing problem I have with those infants is only when I get hit by unexpected woes that the infancy issue can interfere with my recovery and can even get life-threatening. At those times only. But even then, life-threatening.

 

[may71]

Who is it that really has direct knowledge of what happens to babies when they die?

I've heard a competing theory that children that die young must have done some evil thing in a previous life.

It seems like the death of a baby or child is just kind of a shocking thing, so it's necessary to comfort one's self by saying they have gone to heaven, or to comfort one's self by saying they must have been evil in a previous life, so somehow it is fitting and just.

I don't know that much about the bible, but I'm not aware of any scriptural basis for thinking that babies go to heaven, or hell, or any place else.

Maybe it's better to say "I don't know what happens to babies when they die, and I don't think anyone else knows either".

 

[Kira]

So far, those who have responded to my thread do not have that religious belief at all, so I think it would be better if the respondents are those who have that belief.

Just an honest question for you. Who do you believe has that particular religious belief? I'm a practicing Born Again Christian so I'm assuming that you'd include me in that group?

Truth is, without getting into a heavy scripture debate/discussion, the only thing that I can say is that I honestly don't know if all babies and infants automatically go to Heaven. The reason for this is because there is no clear message or scripture in the Holy Bible that states that. Therefore we would have to discuss scripture and our interpretations of them to come up with different theories. Which then would only be that; theories.

At the end of the day only God knows the true answer to your question and I don't proclaim to know what God's plans are in relation to a lot of things.

So, as you can see, it's an almost impossible thing to ask people without getting into a discussion pertaining to scripture.

If you have some specific scripture that you'd like to quote to back up the theory that all babies and infants go to Heaven, then we could discuss that but I don't think that that's the point of this thread.

 

[Kira]

Every day, I express my gratitude to the Universe for the Ultimate Gift I received last December.

If your own personal religious/spiritual beliefs and values come from the "Universe" then the religious beliefs pertaining to the institution of the Christian "church" shouldn't affect you at all.

I say this because the people (ie Christians) that have these beliefs also only believe in ONE God and one religion. I believe that you believe in, and practice, Christianity and Buddhism - which is completely fine for you and not what this is about at all.

But that contradicts all of the "pure" Christian values and beliefs making your assumption of who does/doesn't go to Heaven null and void.

This is obviously a very sensitive subject wrapped up in religion and the specifics which is why it can't be discussed so easily. Plus, I don't want you to think that I am belittling your own spirituality which consists of a blend of Christianity and Buddhism.

I'm sorry if this has confused you but it's an extremely complicated topic that has no cut and dry answer.

I do however, wish you all the best in finding some peace with this particular subject.

Kira

 

[Kira]

Maybe it's better to say "I don't know what happens to babies when they die, and I don't think anyone else knows either".

This is the concise answer! Only God truly knows so put your faith in the fact that we, (humans) do not, and will not, ever know the true answer.

 

[Sunspots]

I'm an atheist, I suppose agnostic would probably be a better title as I'd love to be proven wrong so maybe I shouldn't be replying. But as this isn't in the religion part of the forum which I always steer clear of, I'm going to give you my take on it.

I've no idea about what happens to babies when they die. If there is a god, only he or she knows the answer to that. But one thing in your post really struck me.

it makes me think that all those babies went to Heaven without suffering at all--while those of us who survive on Earth have to suffer

Not everyone on earth has a life of suffering. Probably for the vast majority of people the good bits outweigh the bad. Most people are happy to be alive, whether they witness or experience suffering themselves.
So yes, if you believe in God and heaven those babies might go straight there without experiencing suffering. But they also don't have the chance to experience any of the joy that their time on earth may bring.

I understand why a person of religion with depression would be envious of babies who go straight to heaven. I've often wished I'd died at birth. But none of us know what happens to them or if they would have grown into adults who love life or would have done something amazing for the world.

 

[GFS]

I'm not religious. Never been a believer. I think it's irrelevant to say what I think about Heaven, Hell and other beliefs.
But I'd like to make two points:
1. You have your greatest dreams come true. Those babies never got their chance.
2. Can you imagine how these words make the parents who lost their babies feel like?

Never be jealous of the others. You don't know their whole story. Not even those babies' story.

 

[Winslow]

Just an honest question for you. Who do you believe has that particular religious belief? I'm a practicing Born Again Christian so I'm assuming that you'd include me in that group?

Truth is, without getting into a heavy scripture debate/discussion, the only thing that I can say is that I honestly don't know if all babies and infants automatically go to Heaven. The reason for this is because there is no clear message or scripture in the Holy Bible that states that. Therefore we would have to discuss scripture and our interpretations of them to come up with different theories. Which then would only be that; theories.

At the end of the day only God knows the true answer to your question and I don't proclaim to know what God's plans are in relation to a lot of things.

So, as you can see, it's an almost impossible thing to ask people without getting into a discussion pertaining to scripture.

If you have some specific scripture that you'd like to quote to back up the theory that all babies and infants go to Heaven, then we could discuss that but I don't think that that's the point of this thread.

The reason I did Not mention Christianity is because I wanted to avoid any debate. After all, the whole point of my thread is to help me cope with religion as a "trigger."

But since you asked for the specific scripture, it can be found in 2nd-Samuel 12:23 where David's baby son died. And the verse says the son cannot return to you but you shall go to him. And since David went to Heaven, then obviously his baby resides in Heaven.

So far, the other respondents to this thread have been either Non-religious or even outright Atheists, so the idea of those babies does not upset them at all. In fact, Atheists do not even believe in any Afterlife at all, so they feel totally at peace. So it makes me wonder whether I should become Atheist or not. At least then I would not think about those babies, which would then eliminate the "trigger," which, as you know, can become life-threatening.

Thank you, Kira, that you respect my blended belief of both Christianity and Buddhism. The policy of this forum has always been to respect all the different religions. But I'm sure that you also agree that sometimes a religion can cause "triggers."

As you said, the purpose of this thread is not for religious debate at all, but rather to help me cope with my "trigger." So let's hope I can get suggestions that are constructive.

 

[MosesY]

This subject is addressed in the Bible in Matthew 20:1-16. If you read it and study it then you see it addresses this subject. The gist of it is "Life is not Fair." It is not fair for some people to be born into wealth and not have to work a day in their life. It is not fair that some people suffer in life and some people do not. The challenge is to do the most you can with your own life.

 

[Legate Lanius]

Of course never being born or getting capped at birth is the optimal way, but we were not so lucky; and therefore have to contend with the situation we find ourselves in. Who knows, some kind soul might mercy-kill me tomorrow. You never know what the future will bring.

 

[Lady Wolfshead]

My view of heaven is that unless you've suffered you can never fully appreciate it.

 

[Winslow]

This subject is addressed in the Bible in Matthew 20:1-16. If you read it and study it then you see it addresses this subject. The gist of it is "Life is not Fair." It is not fair for some people to be born into wealth and not have to work a day in their life. It is not fair that some people suffer in life and some people do not.

Since you quoted the Bible-- are you saying that God created the UNfairness?

 

[MosesY]

Yes, I believe He did. He chooses some people to suffer and others to live in ecstasy. It is all part of His plan.