Baroness Thatcher

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by shedhaddock, Apr 15, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. shedhaddock

    shedhaddock Banned Member

    I am passionate about most things, but the thing that bothers me the most recently is the clear and utter disrespect for Baroness Thatcher. I am proud of what she achieved and what she represented. I am proud to be British.
    How can people spout so much hatred at a woman after her death? Many are so young and just follow what others believe - can they not decide for themselves? How many people actually knew her personally? People hate her because of the choices she made - little realise the plans involving the industries were actually in place 10 years BEFORE she became Prime minister, and they originated from a LABOUR government. Someone was always going to have to do it and she had the balls to do the job.

    I have always considered politics to be a mans' world, but she made it. If anything, that opened the doors for other women to go into politics too. I am inspired by what this Lady achieved, and if she was able to do it, then so can i.

    Why hate someone because they were different? Choices have to be made on a daily basis, thats the way life is.

    She has now passed, and to voice hate for someone after they have passed shows that you didnt really have the balls to confront them about it while they were still alive.

    Politics is a dirty word, but someone has to do it. What would the world be like without them?

    This woman was an inspiration, may she rest in peace.
     
  2. Moat

    Moat Banned Member

    Well perhaps you can look at both sides of the argument about her life and what role she played whilst Prime Minister. You could very well like her, but that does not negate the thoughts and feelings of the people who went through hardship during her term.

    Since I was born and raised up whilst she was in office, I do not have anything to say for or against her, so any opinions I have of her now are quite moot. She was who she was, that is the end of it for me.
     
  3. skinnylove911

    skinnylove911 Well-Known Member

    Yes Rest in Piece Maggie Thatcher x
     
  4. Theodora

    Theodora Well-Known Member

    Actually it's Rest in Pieces as she's being cremated.
     
  5. Perfect Melancholy

    Perfect Melancholy SF Friend

  6. snarrylover

    snarrylover Well-Known Member

    I'm kinda hating that I saw this thread coz it's the sort of topic I feel I have to give my two cents. Not sure if getting into a debate in my current state of mind is a good idea but whatever. I had a mini rant about this last week so I will copy and paste...

    I'm not going to pretend I know anything about politics, and all I know of Margaret Thatcher is what I've heard and read over the years. What I do know for certain though is that she was a mother and she was a wife and she was loved by her family and her friends. She wasn't a murderer, she wasn't a terrorist, she wasn't an evil human being. Whether you agreed with her ideals or not, she was this country's Prime Minister for many years and she had a huge impact on life today. I can understand not feeling sorry for her if that's the way you feel, but celebrating her death? Saying you hope she rots in Hell? Making fun of her and she's not yet even buried? That is twisted and it says more about you than anything.

    (That was aimed at no one in particular on here. Again, its my copy and pasted rant about the nation as a whole.)
     
  7. Kaos General

    Kaos General Well-Known Member

    Sorry but i must have grown up in a different part of the world to you. Im from the forest of dean, one of the mining communities she destroyed, i remember visiting my grandfather in the hospital after having his face caved in by the police who were under orders from margartet thatcher to crush any opposition, so forgive me if i dont view her reign with rose tinted spectacles on.

    Perhaps you have been living in a cave but everyone i know has hated margaret thatcher since the 80's and that has never changed, they still hate the woman even now shes dead. Tell you what, because you clearly have no clue why people hate her ill tell you. She privatised everything, the entire world thought it was a great idea and followed suit, the results of which we are living with now. She personally covered up the deaths of 96 people at Hillsborough, you might not think its a big deal but Liverpool still does, and rightly so. She took on the unions and won, which you might think is a good idea but caused mass unemployment which she covered up with a brand new benefit called incapacity benefit, which a lot of people are still on. She brought in the right to buy scheme so people could buy their own council houses, which many did, but the policy was so piss poor that the councils couldn't or never reinvested it to build new homes which is why their is now a severe social housing shortage in the UK. I could go on all night with this but essentially not every family benefited from her reign or survived to tell the tale.

    Oh and if you want truly inspirational women politicians i suggest you look up mo mowlam
     
  8. Perfect Melancholy

    Perfect Melancholy SF Friend

    Agreed

    Thatcher, looked after her own agenda, her own self interest, imagine being the mother, father of someone killed that day, for her to blame your childs behaviour for their own death, taking over 20 years to get that overturned and an apology, not from her though from the police. Imagine how consumed your life is that battle to get justice for your dead son/daughter, knowing the leader you put in charge betrayed you

    now tell me she is okay?
     
  9. shedhaddock

    shedhaddock Banned Member

    No-one is perfect and the Baroness made choices. We ARE binge drinking Britain and our country is representing something of a shambolic mess. Is that going to be her fault too? We all make choices, but its what we learn that makes us.
    What does it achieve for people to celebrate a persons death? What does a person gain? To feel good for a few hours at the loss of a persons life?

    She was a fantastic inspiration even in the face of adversity.
     
  10. Perfect Melancholy

    Perfect Melancholy SF Friend

    Firstly not once has it been mentioned about celebrating her death,

    how do you define an inspiration? pretty low standards, your reply has ignored every comment on here
     
  11. Kaos General

    Kaos General Well-Known Member

    She might have been a fantastic inspiration to yourself but your severely over reaching if you expect everyone to think the same, which is the problem here. Her policies didnt make your life a living hell with no future at all, otherwise you wouldnt be saying what you are. You need to accept that for the majority of the country she sold our souls to the highest bidder and the only thing we could ever hope to look forward to was the £71 a week the government gives us.
     
  12. paulhewson

    paulhewson Well-Known Member

    The documentary "Shock to the System" gives some insight into Thatcher and her economic policies. It's about mass privatization of industries, focusing mainly on the Iraq war (the second one), but also covering Thatcher and Reagan's policies in the 1980's. I have to give her credit for her strength and ambition, but I don't think she gave two shits about the man and woman on the street.
     
  13. shedhaddock

    shedhaddock Banned Member

    She was an inspiration to me. She had ambition and the balls to do it.

    The mass media are responsible for the way they relay the news to the public, and i am merely sick of seeing images of joe public celebrating the death of a person they didnt know personally, they only know what they were told.

    I dont expect everyone to agree, and im not going to pour through all the politics she was involved with. Many men hated that she became Prime minister, and every government has scapegoats when things dont run smoothly. Again, thats life.

    The Baroness isnt responsible for making my life a living hell - my parents did that. I have a prosperous future, because i am doing everything i can to fight against my depression and problems to get to where i want in life and i dont want it handed to me on a plate, im quite happy to work for it. Its not what my country can give me, its what i can give my country.

    She achieved her goal - to become Prime minister. I can achieve my goal.
     
  14. Kaos General

    Kaos General Well-Known Member

    If she would have been a man she still would have been hated, the same way harold mcmillan was. Her being a woman has absolutely nothing to do with it. She was a politician so how can you not see politics has everything to do as to why people hate her? You might not want to pour through all the politics but the questions your asking means you have to. I too would like a prosperous life but im prevented from doing so because of various factors, many of which are a direct result of her policies.
     
  15. Moat

    Moat Banned Member

    I am starting to think this thread could be getting a little out of control...
    Hope everyone who sees and posts here will respect everyone else's thoughts and opinions. :bubbles:
     
  16. Kaos General

    Kaos General Well-Known Member

    Why? Because we are using this forum as its intended and actually debating an issue without resorting to petty insults? I resepct endeavours point of view as im sure she respects mine, we just totally disgaree thats all.
     
  17. windlepoons

    windlepoons Well-Known Member

    I think Maggie is somewhat of a sin eater. Everything bad that happened in that decade was her personal fault. The reaction she got is understandable, some of the things that happened were awful. But she is blamed for way too much, and you know what will happen? History will forgive her for it all, because they will read about how she was blamed for so much that was part of a global trend and say we blamed her because she was a woman. She will be seen as a victim.
    As a Twilight Zone fan, I would like to know how her legacy (and indeed the way she acted) would be different if it was Malcolm Thatcher.
     
  18. Butterfly

    Butterfly Pokémon Master Staff Alumni SF Author SF Supporter

    I do think that most of what happened under Maggie would have happened under any of the governments. She inherited the country in a piss poor state and had to make some very difficult decisions and yes, it did cause hardship for a lot of people but I think a lot of it was damage limitation. She was by no means perfect and there are things that she did that were very bad choices. But I have to say, she won 3 elections, 2 of them being landslide victories so what does that say? She certainly wasn't THAT bad as she sailed through elections.

    As for the miners, I really wish they would change the record. How can you mine coal when there is no coal left to mine? What are they going to mine, thin air? The miners put their faith in the wrong person and that person lead them badly, providing them with false hope and promises that he knew he could not live upto. They were less than innocent with all the strikes, their behaviour was despiccable. Equally the police were heavy handed but I would have hated to see how it would have gone if they had not been. Yes innocent people were injured, but they chose to be there on the picket line, they knew what they were getting themselves into. It's been over 20 years since the mines closed and they are still wailing in self pity. They could have retrained and got new jobs but many chose not to and live at the benefit of the welfare state.

    Many of the people relishing in Maggie's death were too young to even understand her politics and were too young or not even born to even experience her leadership. Many people "celebrating" are people that like to blame the past for their short comings or people that just like to riot and celebrate because they have nothing else better to do with their time. I can understand the people who could not give a toss because her leadership meant they suffered, they have every right too, but what I do object to is all the youngsters who have absolutely no clue.

    Personally, I think she did more good than bad and I believe she deserves the send off she is getting. RIP Maggie.
     
  19. shedhaddock

    shedhaddock Banned Member

    As Kaos General said, its a debate from many sides - and we can agree to disagree. And when she was first elected in 1979 - i wasnt even a twinkle in anyones life plan for a good 8 years....

    The past cannot be changed, and i think that if she were given the chance to go back in history to change it, she wouldnt. She alone wasnt responsible for the decisions, there were a "team of advisors" behind her - she just had to deliver the outcomes.

    What are the current government doing? Same as always - screwing up. Governments will usually screw up, its just how their actions/choices affect us, and how we deal with changes.
     
  20. Underground

    Underground Well-Known Member

    What? The UK has at least 200 years of coal reserves left. The reason the pits were closed is purely because importing coal from Poland and Bolivia, where child labour is used, was much cheaper.

    And what a piss poor excuse for police brutality - "they chose to be on the picket lines" - we're supposed to live in a democracy. No one deserves to be battered for protesting, your attitude against the ex mining community is also piss poor. What jobs could the millions of displaced miners (and other workers) just magically restrained to do, and where would they get the money to do it? Public funding? But I bet you and the other Tories would be quick to whinge about that.

    I didn't celebrate Thatcher's death, but I didn't care for it either. She certainly didn't deserve a ceremonial funeral.

    Okay, so by that logic, none of us should feel happy about Adolf Hitler's demise because none of us were alive during WW2 and didn't directly experience the effects of any of his policies or war crimes?

    Most of the young, that you seem keen to patronise, that celebrated her death read history and in all likelihood had parents and grandparents that were affected by her policies. Remember this next time you think of criticising a leader or a policy that was enacted before you were born, eh?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.