Biggest Criminal of the 21st Century

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by pit, Jan 27, 2010.

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  1. pit

    pit Well-Known Member

    He's not what you think. Adolf Hitler, Stalin...too obvious. I put my money on J. Robert Oppenheimer, director of the Manhattan project and the other fathers of the nuclear bomb.

    I can't think of a more heinous act than putting intellectual resources into something we know can blow up the planet ten times over.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2010
  2. Axiom

    Axiom Account Closed

    What's wrong with creating something so powerful? I think it's about how we use it, not about creation and discovery in this instance. Don't forget Einstein.

    I donno to be honest. Hitler does stick in my head. And since we're talking 21st centurary.... erhm, it's some person(s) pulling alot of strings that I will never know.
  3. pit

    pit Well-Known Member

    Actually it should be 20th Century, shouldn't it?
  4. Axiom

    Axiom Account Closed

    Yar, 21st started in 2000 I believe :biggrin:
  5. pit

    pit Well-Known Member

    Too create something so powerful -- is that really necessary? Maybe J. Rob Opp had microdick and was making up for it.
  6. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    Oppenheimer didn't cause the bomb. The science was there already, the technology always follows on its tail - the nuclear bomb was independently developed more than once. And the science can never be stopped; if it could, it shouldn't be, anyhow.

    Biggest criminal of the 20th century was the same as any other century: humanity. Humanity killed billions, and produced the technology to kill billions more easily.
  7. bluegrey

    bluegrey Antiquities Friend

    King Kong- that homie was seriously overfed. What havok he wrought back in '33 in New York City. He wasn't known for his civil temperament on Skull Island either. :tongue:

    Seriously I would say Joseph Stalin. His regime presided over purges, gulags, executions and most tragically, repeated and avoidable famines ending an estimated twenty million lives in agony. Hitler was equally as vicious but I believe he was almost completely bonkers and not as possessed of his faculties as Stalin.
  8. Axiom

    Axiom Account Closed

    Powerful from what perceptional point? The wheel is powerful, medicine is powerful, self awareness is powerful. It's the application of these tools and abilities that seems to define them as good and bad. The exploration and discovery of the unknown should be the definition of our exsistence. And what we discover shouldn't be tarnished by the choices we make with them. At the end of the day, someone can make something "good" or something "bad".
  9. sammakko

    sammakko Banned Member

    My mention was said Man.. but now I say Manity :whip:

    And I am sure it is the same criminal next century also :mad:
  10. 1izombie

    1izombie Well-Known Member

    they were the first to make it....doesnt mean if they didnt do it we wouldnt have nuclear bombs...but im just echoing aoeu... it would be hard pressed to who is worse Hitler or stalin..
  11. pit

    pit Well-Known Member

    The wheel, medicine and self awareness are all useful and powerful to the user, but they can't kill the planet. They're not the same thing as nuclear apocalyptic capabilities.
  12. Zurkhardo

    Zurkhardo Well-Known Member

    Some people have argued that Gavrilo Princip, the man that assassinated the Archduke of Austria, is the worst criminal of the century, albeit unintentionally. His single act of murder led to WWI, which in turn provided for the rise of the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, WWII, and the incalcuable number of conflicts and crimes that have followed thereafter (Cold War, Manhattan Project, the various proxy conflicts, etc).

    Granted, if his actions hadn't been a pretext for WWI, something else would've been, given the increasing tensions of the time. But I'm only speaking on the basis of what's already happened. It's pretty interesting to think about too.
  13. Ziggy

    Ziggy Antiquitie's Friend

    But killing the planet would be a good thing.

    I don't like suffering, I've had animals put down because they've suffered. When a human dies their suffering comes to an end, but those left behind suffer. The only answer is for everyone to die in a single moment.
  14. Axiom

    Axiom Account Closed

    Yes they can. They application of one or all can in effect be an instrument to killing the planet. A large number of nukes across the planet. Even in itself, the motion of a wheel and selfawareness brought about the building blocks of creating such awsome power as the nuclear device. We just focus on nukes as weaponary. Someday we"ll use them for something usuful instead of weapons.
    But it's all part of our own exploration. We'll find a concept and make a million things from that. The use of it as a weapon is wrong, but the application and the doors it opens for scientists and people with imagination is amazing.
    One could say I'm tunnel visioned on one set of possibilities, another could say you are tunnel visioned on another set. I do agree that they are destructive, but I don't think learning about them and creating them is wrong. Doesn't mean we have to keep making them or use them.

    *edit* I'll give you this, their actions have given us a set of possiblities that we continue to abuse.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2010
  15. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    Note also that nuclear energy could solve our energy problems for thousands of years to come as well as propelling us to the far reaches of the universe. And it's a necessary step to any future science.

    ...and in a perverse twist, it might be able to prevent major wars.
  16. Bob26003

    Bob26003 Well-Known Member

    Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot,

    Also, I think the littering of Iraq with depleted uranium will go down as one of the worst crimes.

    Doctors are allready reporting birth defects at 15 times the normal level and cancer has gone through the roof. And Iraq is filled with the shit.
  17. pit

    pit Well-Known Member

    Even if I go to the furthest reaches of the universe, I'll still be depressed.
  18. Prinnctopher's Belt

    Prinnctopher's Belt Antiquities Friend SF Supporter

    George W. Bush, hands down. And Hitler and Stalin were dead by the 21st century...
  19. jhhop

    jhhop Well-Known Member

    Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) 49-78,000,000
    Jozef Stalin (USSR, 1932-39) 23,000,000 (the purges plus Ukraine's famine)
    Adolf Hitler (Germany, 1939-1945) 12,000,000 (concentration camps and civilians WWII)
    Leopold II of Belgium (Congo, 1886-1908) 8,000,000
    Hideki Tojo (Japan, 1941-44) 5,000,000 (civilians in WWII)
    Ismail Enver (Turkey, 1915-20) 1,200,000 Armenians (1915) + 350,000 Greek Pontians and 480,000 Anatolian Greeks (1916-22) + 500,000 Assyrians (1915-20)
    Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79) 1,700,000
    Kim Il Sung (North Korea, 1948-94) 1.6 million (purges and concentration camps)
    Menghistu (Ethiopia, 1975-78) 1,500,000
    Yakubu Gowon (Biafra, 1967-1970) 1,000,000
    Leonid Brezhnev (Afghanistan, 1979-1982) 900,000
    Jean Kambanda (Rwanda, 1994) 800,000
    Suharto (East Timor, West Papua, Communists, 1966-98) 800,000
    Saddam Hussein (Iran 1980-1990 and Kurdistan 1987-88) 600,000
    Tito (Yugoslavia, 1945-1987) 570,000
    Fumimaro Konoe (Japan, 1937-39) 500,000? (Chinese civilians)
    Jonas Savimbi (Angola, 1975-2002) 400,000
    Mullah Omar - Taliban (Afghanistan, 1986-2001) 400,000
    Idi Amin (Uganda, 1969-1979) 300,000
    Yahya Khan (Pakistan, 1970-71) 300,000 (Bangladesh)
    Benito Mussolini (Ethiopia, 1936; Libya, 1934-45; Yugoslavia, WWII) 300,000
    Mobutu Sese Seko (Zaire, 1965-97) ?
    Charles Taylor (Liberia, 1989-1996) 220,000
    Foday Sankoh (Sierra Leone, 1991-2000) 200,000
    Michel Micombero (Burundi, 1972) 150,000
    Slobodan Milosevic (Yugoslavia, 1992-99) 100,000
    Hassan Turabi (Sudan, 1989-1999) 100,000
    Jean-Bedel Bokassa (Centrafrica, 1966-79) ?
    Richard Nixon (Vietnam, 1969-1974) 70,000 (vietnamese civilians)
    Efrain Rios Montt (Guatemala, 1982-83) 70,000
    Papa Doc Duvalier (Haiti, 1957-71) 60,000
    Hissene Habre (Chad, 1982-1990) 40,000
    Chiang Kai-shek (Taiwan, 1947) 30,000 (popular uprising)
    Vladimir Ilich Lenin (USSR, 1917-20) 30,000 (dissidents executed)
    Francisco Franco (Spain) 30,000 (dissidents executed after the civil war)
    Fidel Castro (Cuba, 1959-1999) 30,000
    Lyndon Johnson (Vietnam, 1963-1968) 30,000
    Hafez Al-Assad (Syria, 1980-2000) 25,000
    Khomeini (Iran, 1979-89) 20,000
    Robert Mugabe (Zimbabwe, 1982-87, Ndebele minority) 20,000
    Rafael Videla (Argentina, 1976-83) 13,000
    Guy Mollet (France, 1956-1957) 10,000 (war in Algeria)
    Harold McMillans (Britain, 1952-56, Kenya's Mau-Mau rebellion) 10,000
    Paul Koroma (Sierra Leone, 1997) 6,000
    Osama Bin Laden (worldwide, 1993-2001) 3,500
    Augusto Pinochet (Chile, 1973) 3,000
    Al Zarqawi (Iraq, 2004-06) 2,000

    (Note: the crimes committed by right-wing dictators have always been easier to track down than the crimes against humanity committed by communist leaders, so the figures for communist leaders like Stalin and Mao increase almost yearly as new secret documents become available. To this day, the Chinese government has not yet disclosed how many people were executed by Mao's red guards during the Cultural Revolution and how many people were killed in Tibet during the Chinese invasion of 1950. We also don't know how many dissidents have been killed by order of Kim Il Sung in North Korea, although presumably many thousands).

    Source: ...............The World is a f*cked up place isn't it?.............
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 28, 2010
  20. Zurkhardo

    Zurkhardo Well-Known Member

    I'm surprised that Bush, Rumsfeld, and Cheney are left out of the list, considering that it included political leaders from other wars (like Vietnam and the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan).
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