Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by Bob26003, Dec 3, 2006.
I started this thread to encourage people not to talk to or associate with people who support Bush.
Do you think its mainly how he orchestrated the Iraq War that has made him so hated/disliked by many? I hear he was quite popular right after the 9/11 attacks. I personally don't like him, totally am against the war but still support the troops. We're in a real mess there. A real fine fucking mess. :sad:
To be quite honest, I'm not even saying the Iraq situation wasn't necessary at some point - Sure, I believe it could've been done differently, small scale intelligence operations, tactics, etc. rather than a full-scale war. Of course the WMD excuses were weak attempts for UN support, and U.S. needs oil, etc. but none of that really matters to me.. it's done, people need to get over it.
What I do care about is social issues at home. What happens when many billions are spent on foreign operations while very little is reserved for public education, research, health, economy? Well, if you're a strong supporter of Psychology and scientific advancements, Bush is not a very attractive president just by default. It's not even a matter of how he chooses to address certain issues anymore, because his campaign's priorities are completely screwed up. I mean, think about the reality here: We're spending many billions on offensive military manufacturing collecting even more international debt, while our society is filled with unhealthy social environments, crime, high unemployment rates, and public school systems that simply fail.
A major power like the U.S. should have education in the top 10, preferably top 5 in comparison to other countries worldwide. Countries like Japan and Korea are at the top, with dozens of European countries ranking above the U.S. in worldwide studies. Why is college so fucking expensive in a nation where we're paying football stars and actors millions on an annual basis? We're supposed to be the land of prosperity, but our country is going to be shit in another 50 years if we don't fix economy, education, and social environments.
Britain seems to be going the same way Syd, it's a sad state of affairs :sad:
The United States has now been at war with Iraq longer than it was at war with Germany during WW 2.
The number of dead US soldiers is quickly approaching the number of civilian
fatalities that were killed in the original attack of 911.
Iraq is experiencing a full-blown civil war
Osama Bin-Ladin is as much of a threat today as he ever was.
George Bush's so-called War On Terror has actually increased the number of
Islamic militants who are now willing to die for "Allah"
There are no US soldiers serving in Iraq whose last names are Bush, Cheney,
Are you kidding me? I guess then we should think about threads to encourage people not to associate with people in Texas, or with people that drive SUV's etc. You know it is possible for people with different political views to actually be friends. Having differences is often what makes relationships so good.
that is fucked up.
people have their own opinions, and i could just as easily not associate with you because you started this ridiculous thread that is trying to cause trouble.
would you not associate with someone because they support their country?
we didnt make the decision the government did...and that is more than one person. Bush doesnt make all of the decisions, but he does have a part in them.
maybe the war was a stupid decision, but people make mistakes.
Thanks for pointing that out guys, I absolutely agree - differences of opinion should not come in the way of friendship. (or even romance :wink: well - couples do tend to argue a lot after all)
In fact, the very reason people get turned off by politics is this bad stigma attached.. as if differing political views will drive us apart and make us enemies of eachother. Of course it is possible to discuss issues politely and try to find common ground - such is the basis of moderation. Actually, the differences between us are what make discussions so interesting.. what would be the point in debate if everyone agreed all the time? :laugh:
As long as people are willing to be gentleman and ladies about it, stick to logic, provide references, avoid excessive rhetoric, etc.. it can be an enjoyable learning experience for everyone involved! I think of politics as working for the greater good of humanity, not as a war between political parties. Hopefully most people would be able to back me up on that, at least.
i personally just think that saying not to associate with people who support Bush is just creating more hate.
Regarding the "war criminal" label: I believe that is correct. But I'd like to point out that the number of US soldiers killed in Iraq is much higher than what is reported in the mainstream media. Those numbers only include those who die IN Iraq. If someone is wounded and goes to the military hospital - conveniently located OUTSIDE Iraq - and then dies in the hospital, they are NOT counted as an Iraq war casualty. So the numbers are much higher than what we are being told.:sad: Also, the number of our dead soldiers is tiny compared to the number of Iraqi civilians kiilled.:sad: :sad: :sad:
I have many friends with many differing perspectives and beliefs, and I support differences, but imho bush is A Very Bad Man and shouldn't be in charge of ANYTHING, as he is as mean as he is incompetent. His beliefs and actions make me ashamed to be an American citizen.:unsure: :sad:
I'm a dedicated pacifist who believes that war is wrong and that the only excuse for violence is "self defense".
love one another...
least, the peacemaker (wanna-be)
Wow, what you've said was so important that you posted it twice ! :thumbup:
My bad...I guess I got excited and hit the button twice accidentally. I do encourage differing perspectives, it's just one more way of growing emotionally and spiritually, but I cannot condone war or violence UNLESS it's in self-defense...and Iraq was not a case of self-defense - it's all about oil and power and profit...and at the expense of so many lives - more's the pity:sad:
I still believe tho, as Anne Frank said, that people are basically good at heart - and if she can say that, after what she went thru, then I should be well able to believe and live it, as my life is so easy in comparison.
Love one another...
The fact that it has pissed them off is not a reason to not stand up for what you believe in, despite the fact your mum probably told you to just ignore the bullies and they will go away, the truth is you have to stand up for yourself because they don't go away.
Bush is an idiot, plain and simple, I have serious doubts as to whether anything that dumb can actually be evil (Moby Dick anyone?)
That said, the capitalist system essentially means that money buys power. And Oil means money. So those with power (those with money), want more oil (more money) so they can have more power.
What's annoying is that the US DOES NOT NEED OIL!!!!! What you need is a dozen more nuclear plants, then you can almost completly remove your dependancy on oil, it would also then put the us in a position where it could impose boycotts on these middle-eastern states, if the terrorists weren't delt with by their own governments, rather than having to go in guns blazing.
the war in iraq will probably, eventually be looked upon as a good thing tho, I mean, if not for ww1 the british empire wouldn't have been dissolved, if not for Hiroshima, Japan wouldn't be the tech capital it is.
If not for the cold war we would never have put a man on the moon.
So yeah in perspective, things tend to get better after war, but thousands of people dieing is a big price to pay.
Of course the US seems to like to put these countries in an impossible position, the reason these countries are trying to develop nuclear technology is because they cannot afford o burn their own oil, it's worth too much.
I was just teasing you. I did the same thing myself on another thread. Tootles !
Dear LMA, my statement that you quoted was to show that Bush's W.O.T
hasn't been the success that he would have us believe. Believe me I am not a pacifist, either in the global sense or the individual sense ( I carry weapons on my person ).
Bush is indeed a moron who hasn't the mental wherewithall to be running a corporation much less the entire United States.
I only quoted that bit because I agreed with you on the rest, and I think think it is an important fact that it hasn't been sucessful, but I don't think it is a reason why the war shouldn't have happened.
Duly noted. In my mind, if WMD's were really the motivating factor, why has Bush literally tip-toed around *North Korea ? ( *part of Bush's "axis of evil" )
N.K. has flaunted the fact they have nuke ICBM's. N.K. has indisputably crossed the thresh hold that Bush claimed he wouldn't tolerate yet Bush
refuses to act.
He probably has visions of tens of thousands of US soldiers disappearing in a
blinding flash underneath a towering mushroom cloud. If the US military were to be effectively "neutered" in an apocolyptic exchange with N.K., then the US will be helpless and quite incapable of enforcing its will.
If Bush followed his own logic concerning hostile nations that possess WMD's
then he should have first pursued N.K., not Iraq. It makes sense to first attack the nation that is the greatest threat, then move on to lower priorities, such as Iraq or Iran.
Well, Personally, I dont like to hate anyone.
But to tell the truth. When someone reveals to me that they are a rightwing nutjob I get sick to my stomach.
These ppl know what they are supporting. Murder and corruption.
Either that, or they are just brainwashed by our Corporate media.
However, I do believe that Bush supporters should be marginalized and held accountabel for their stupidity.
After all, they voted him in TWICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, maybe once
Point is: This Right wing bullshit has got to stop before we have brownshirts beating on our doors.
In Response to Fear the Clowns.
I would rather not justify the Nazi agenda, whether or not the person knows they are going along with it.
How els can you smack someone back into reality?
Bush is indeed detestable. He is a rich fratboy who never worked a real job in his entire life and never will. Yes, he's a jerk but while you are vilifying him ( please go right ahead ) please don't forget the Democrats who voted to support the war. They walked in lockstep with him and supported him on more than one occasion.
I am not naive and I am aware that there were perhaps a few individuals who voted against him ( though none come to mind at the moment ) but please don't let the Dem's off the hook. That would make you appear to be as similarly dogmatic an any neo-con war monger..
I hate right-wing nut jobs. I hate left-wing nut jobs. I just hate political fanaticism...PERIOD.