Discussion in 'Opinions, Beliefs, & Points of View' started by Bob26003, Jun 3, 2010.

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  1. Bob26003

    Bob26003 Well-Known Member

    " Californians would no longer get plastic bags at supermarket check-out stands

    ....The hottest debate Wednesday was in the state Assembly, which voted 41 to 27 to pass a bill that would ban single-use plastic grocery bags — the first of its kind in the nation, according to lawmakers and environmentalists. Shoppers would have to bring reusable bags to the store or pay at least 5 cents each for recycled paper bags at the checkout counter.

    Schwarzenegger has indicated that he would sign the bill, AB 1998 by Assemblywoman Julia Brownley (D-Santa Monica), if it passes the Senate as expected.

    Environmentalists say the single-use bags endanger marine life and are more likely to foul beaches than any other form of pollution. Californians use 19 billion such bags a year, or 552 per person, according to an Assembly analysis. The measure was sponsored by Santa Monica group Heal the Bay. Opposition comes largely from the plastics industry.

    Cities including San Francisco, Palo Alto, Malibu and others across the country have already instituted such bans. "It's easier to have a statewide ban than it is to have to figure out how to operate city to city," said Assembly Speaker John Pérez (D- Los Angeles).

    The California Grocers Assn. has endorsed the ban.

    "It doesn't surprise me that certain elements of big business have removed their opposition," said Assemblyman and U.S. Senate candidate Chuck DeVore (R-Irvine), an opponent of the bill, alluding to the fee shoppers would have to pay for recycled bags. "As long as they don't get gouged, they're more than happy to dump the consumer under the bus."


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  2. Domo

    Domo Well-Known Member

    The state of Australia i live in did thhis not long ago. I think it is a good idea however at some places you can have a bag...if you pay for it. It's like the environment has a price. Sad really.

    Most do the right thing and offer canvas or paper bags though.
  3. Prinnctopher's Belt

    Prinnctopher's Belt Antiquities Friend SF Supporter

    Here in DC there's a price for plastic bags, and it includes when you go to fast food places. They're only a nickel for each. Now they're proposing to tax beverages.
  4. kitanai

    kitanai Well-Known Member

    theres no stopping the money vampires
  5. wastedmylife

    wastedmylife Well-Known Member

    this is a good thing
  6. deadend

    deadend Active Member

    I wonder how much of the environment you really are saving when you get rid of plastic bags. I re-use the plastic bags I bring my groceries home in as trash liners. If the government decided to ban all plastic bags everywhere, people like me, who re-use the bags for trash liners, will then have to go out and purchase hefty trash bags (or equivalent) to use as trash bags instead, causing the sale of plastic store bought trash bags to grow, which would then cause the industry to grow thus producing more pollution to make these thicker plastic bags which will then be thrown into the ocean killing all marine life.
  7. Datura

    Datura Well-Known Member

    How dramatic. Biodegradable trash bags can be purchased. There are corporations that produce the bags you are now using as liners, so your comparison to trash bags is moot.

    To address the original post, finally, some good news.
  8. kitanai

    kitanai Well-Known Member

    if ppl want to pretend like there saving a dieing world let them .
    just stop taking more money from the poor
    instead of charging us more
    maybe the re usable bags should be free
  9. Crue-K

    Crue-K Well-Known Member

    So, Netanyahu's love child has an opinion on something other that the persecution of Israel and the need to insult everyone who have different opinions to his/her.
  10. KittyGirl

    KittyGirl Well-Known Member

    Good for them? lol- I thought the whole world was already onto the re-usable bags, and paying for plastic ones a year or two (or three) ago~
  11. Issaccs

    Issaccs Well-Known Member

    I have to lol at the bloody "it hurts the poor" bullshit.

    It really is nice to see some positive steps considering how much shit we've pumped into the oceans in the last 100 years.
  12. kitanai

    kitanai Well-Known Member

    banning plastic a postive step sure it is but charging for something that was free is a joke next they will want to charge you for shoping cart use or the use of speedy check out

    if you add up 5cents a bag 6 bags per grocery run a week 30cents 1.20 every month about 14 a yr your looking at spending 750 to 1000 dollars in your life time on papper bags . now considering minum wage and part time work is the norm for alot of ppl idk about you but i wouldn't want to work all month just to support a lifetime of bag buying not saying anyone would be stupid enough to do that when you can buy reusable bags
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 4, 2010
  13. morning rush

    morning rush Well-Known Member

    Which is why you buy the reusable bags...saves your money AND the environment...sigh, there's always people searching for something wrong with something good...

    I always use reusable this is a good thing....and you know what? I'm poor but even I have the intelligence to help out with the environment as much as I can...
  14. kitanai

    kitanai Well-Known Member

    you know what ? your not that poor if your on the internet alot of ppl cant aford any of the luxurys you have at your disposal i see you as a wannbe planeter saving the world one plastic bag at a time well driving your car to get there . theres other things that are reusable toilet papper for 1 but you dont see anyone useing a rewashable cloth cause thats disgusting but it would help save the world but who cares ? exactly and in case you didn't notice i think plastic bag banning is a good thing its charging for what should be free that im pissed about considering how they rip you off with there prices
  15. deadend

    deadend Active Member

    I wasn't being dramatic. (the killing all marine life thing was a joke) I was hypothesizing. Is it not true, that people who use grocery bags for trash liners have to start purchasing trash bags/plastic bags after they get rid of the free grocery bags? Is it not true that a hefty bag has more plastic in it than a thin grocery bag? Is it not true that something with more mass would require more energy to produce? More energy = more pollution, is that not right?
    Now yes, some of these companies are slowly making biodegradable bags, but the last time I was at the store, I didn't see any on the shelves. They are not completely viable as of yet.

    I understand the need to protect our planet, it's only logical. But what I don't like is psuedo-environmentalists believing they are saving the planet by getting the government to charge your average consumer, fees for something that used to be free, as kitanai said. People will pay the fee and use them anyway. Now instead of saving the planet (because I really doubt that charging to use plastic bags will) government is lining their pockets, hefty is lining our trashcans and whales all over the world are screwed.

    If the government really wants to do something, they should force all plastic bag manufacturerers to start making all biodegradable bags and charge them a fee for not complying.
  16. morning rush

    morning rush Well-Known Member

    for your information, I don't have a car....and yes I'm poor, have you ever heard of a library??? internet is FREE there, and I have family too....not to mention that my building has a computer room for those of us who can't afford before you go on trying to judge me with things you have no clue about, count to ten in your head and use your intelligence...

    and the 5cents per bag thing is to make you conscious about what you're doing to the environment, if you want to dirty it up with bags, then you deserve to spend money...
  17. thedeafmusician

    thedeafmusician Staff Alumni

    if they ban plastic bags, then they ban plastic bags. *shrug* i don't really see why people are complaining so much, because it's more a storm in a teacup to me. but then again, i've been brought up from the cradle to be conscious of the environment.

    some companies make biodegradable bags, which i think is awesome. just keep a stock of calico bags -- they're very cheap, or even so, there are some places i go to where you can buy stuff and they have a massive pile of cardboard boxes at the checkout that used to have all the stock in it and you can use those to take home your groceries in, too. then just recycle the boxes when you get home. simple.

    for those who use the argument of reusing bags as bin liners -- yeah, i see the point that you're trying to make. it's a valid one, too and i ain't gonna deny it, BUT you can do without bin liners. we do at home. and as for food scraps and meat innards and whatnot? meat innards go back into the packaging it came from and straight to the trash can outside, and organic produce goes to the compost bin. it works for us *shrug*
  18. Little_me

    Little_me Well-Known Member

    Not surprising, they are about doing the same here
  19. Zurkhardo

    Zurkhardo Well-Known Member

    At the very least it wouldn't hurt to try this. It could always be put to a ballot if it becomes in some way problematic (which is doubtful). Biodegradable plastics still need some work done to be made more palatable. In the meantime, a Piguovian type tax such as this might make a difference. The economic calamity of the past few years has shown that people aren't always rational actors, and having some impetus from a higher authority is sometimes what is needed. Otherwise, the tragedy of the commons ensues and everyone over-consumes.
  20. Tobes

    Tobes Well-Known Member

    While I agree that this is a good thing for the environment, I wonder if the benefits of reusable bags outweigh the costs, energy and resources needed to produce them (I'm talking about if they were adopted on a nationwide or semi-global scale, although small scale is still relevant). I imagine it is harder to make one reusable bag than it is to make 10, or 100 plastic bags.

    As well as this, not everyone is going to keep and reuse the bags, so the manufacturers will have to keep making them (and more of them as more people convert to reusables), as well as plastic bags for other shops and stores, until another method is implemented in the future, or retailers switch to paper. From my point of view, the cons outweigh the pros.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 6, 2010
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