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Can I be frank?

Quietus

Well-Known Member
#1
It doesn't always get better.

Doesn't it sometimes seem as though we are pretty much just filling a void,
spinning on a carousel of various drugs and therapists, and endeavors, hoping
that this thing is going to be the thing that changes us for the better?

I've been dealing with depression, anxiety, anger for 20 years now, I realized.
I'm 33 now, and my life is probably worse than it's ever been. No therapist has
ever cracked my code, or eradicated the cause of being a life-long black hole.
No drug has ever healed my neuroses, or increased my quality of life.

Speaking of quality of life: yes, it's definitely "good" in terms of having amenities,
things, food, water. I am not at risk of being robbed in my neighborhood, or blown
up like people in the middle east. But everyone has their own problems, and their
own threshold of how much shit they can really take.

I think I am at the precipice.

I don't care about pollyanna platitudes, affirmations, empty ambitions.

I just want to get the out of this life, this world, this reality.

/endvent
 

Wispiwill

Well-Known Member
#2
No, it doesn't always get better.

I tend to think of it like I'm in a vast ocean with weights tied to my legs and I have to keep swimming to stop myself from drowning. But there are times when no matter how hard I try, I feel myself being pulled under. Or other times when I'm too tired to keep trying. Or still others when I WANT the water to take me.

But no. It doesn't get better. It just keeps going. But, as you said, there's the hope that it might change. And I think hope sometimes makes it worse. The hope that THIS time, it'll be different. Because when that hope is dashed, as it inevitably seems to be - you end up with the pain of that as well. With the weight of your dead hope dragging you down into the cold, dark water.

But what do you do when all your hope is gone and all you have left is you and that ocean. Do you let it pull you under or do you keep swimming?

At the end of the day, it's your choice. It's always been your choice.
 

sinking_ship

woman overboard
Forum Pro
SF Supporter
#3
No, it doesn't always get better. There's no guarantee of that. If you end things, there's a guarantee it won't get better though. And even when things are utter shit, there's still stuff out there that's worthwhile, though it can be hard to see. That's been my experience at least.
 

Waves

Well-Known Member
#6
It doesn't always get better.

Doesn't it sometimes seem as though we are pretty much just filling a void,
spinning on a carousel of various drugs and therapists, and endeavors, hoping
that this thing is going to be the thing that changes us for the better?

I've been dealing with depression, anxiety, anger for 20 years now, I realized.
I'm 33 now, and my life is probably worse than it's ever been. No therapist has
ever cracked my code, or eradicated the cause of being a life-long black hole.
No drug has ever healed my neuroses, or increased my quality of life.

Speaking of quality of life: yes, it's definitely "good" in terms of having amenities,
things, food, water. I am not at risk of being robbed in my neighborhood, or blown
up like people in the middle east. But everyone has their own problems, and their
own threshold of how much shit they can really take.

I think I am at the precipice.

I don't care about pollyanna platitudes, affirmations, empty ambitions.

I just want to get the out of this life, this world, this reality.

/endvent
Better when have success and emotional support
 

Waves

Well-Known Member
#8
I believe that the only thing that makes life worth living is to help other people.
I am trying to understand how that makes life worth living. Could yo please explain it to me. I helped and was victimized. So it is hard for me to understand.
 

Optimistic Goatman

The woolly enigmatic one
Staff Alumni
SF Supporter
#11
There is no silver bullet. But you are not your anxiety, depression or anger. You said you want things to get better. What would that look like? I think often about this clip
Off-topic, but i legit love Andre Braugher. he's a fantastic actor of no-nonsense characters.

I agree though, some situations don't improve.
Life is a structure build on a foundation of impermanence, therefore very few things can last forever, and as a result most things do improve however.
Personally i have a hard time telling myself that i'm so special i get to be the exception to that rule, which is a thought process that motivates me to find hope.
Just my two cents on this.
 

alixer

We are all one
SF Supporter
#12
Off-topic, but i legit love Andre Braugher. he's a fantastic actor of no-nonsense characters.

I agree though, some situations don't improve.
Life is a structure build on a foundation of impermanence, therefore very few things can last forever, and as a result most things do improve however.
Personally i have a hard time telling myself that i'm so special i get to be the exception to that rule, which is a thought process that motivates me to find hope.
Just my two cents on this.
No, some things don’t improve. You’re right. A lot of things get worse. I guess my thinking is, Is how we feel so inextricably connected to something specific improving, as in no way could we feel better even if the thing gets worse? In the infinity of possibilities is there no way we could accept that this thing doesn’t get better?
 

Optimistic Goatman

The woolly enigmatic one
Staff Alumni
SF Supporter
#13
No, some things don’t improve. You’re right. A lot of things get worse. I guess my thinking is, Is how we feel so inextricably connected to something specific improving, as in no way could we feel better even if the thing gets worse? In the infinity of possibilities is there no way we could accept that this thing doesn’t get better?
Oh, i'm complete agreement with you on that, and that's actually an idea in DBT called "radical acceptance". It's all about coming to terms with the things in life we can't change, and that they don't need to define us. I definitely got way happier a few months ago when i fully internalised this concept.

Sorry, the way i structured my reply probably made it look like i was replying to refute you specifically. My first sentence was a response to your video and the paragraph after was a kind of general response to the thread. That's my bad, i could have made that clearer by making it two posts, i just didn't want a full post on this thread just to say "i love Andre Braugher" :D
 

alixer

We are all one
SF Supporter
#14
Oh, i'm complete agreement with you on that, and that's actually an idea in DBT called "radical acceptance". It's all about coming to terms with the things in life we can't change, and that they don't need to define us. I definitely got way happier a few months ago when i fully internalised this concept.

Sorry, the way i structured my reply probably made it look like i was replying to refute you specifically. My first sentence was a response to your video and the paragraph after was a kind of general response to the thread. That's my bad, i could have made that clearer by making it two posts, i just didn't want a full post on this thread just to say "i love Andre Braugher" :D
This has helped my own acceptance.
 

Quietus

Well-Known Member
#15
No, it doesn't always get better. There's no guarantee of that. If you end things, there's a guarantee it won't get better though. And even when things are utter shit, there's still stuff out there that's worthwhile, though it can be hard to see. That's been my experience at least.
I mean, technically if I opted out, there's no surplus of positive, or negative anymore. I'm just gone from this world. However, if I truly had the constitution for suicide, I would have done so a long time ago. I'm pretty much just holding out for God to take me out.

That void feeling means there's something lacking, something you need that makes life meaningful. I think the answer is in the inner emptiness itself, not in anything outside because nothing outside can fill it pemanently.
Pretty much. Nothing fulfills me, because I know that everything in this life is fleeting. And that my own life is a vapor (having an Ecclesiastes moment). I guess on one hand, I could try to take comfort in this, rather than lament it.

Better when have success and emotional support
Of which I have neither.

I believe that the only thing that makes life worth living is to help other people.
I think that is an honorable virtue. Though how can one help others, when they can't even help themselves?

Oh, i'm complete agreement with you on that, and that's actually an idea in DBT called "radical acceptance". It's all about coming to terms with the things in life we can't change, and that they don't need to define us. I definitely got way happier a few months ago when i fully internalised this concept.
I'm going to read up on this.
 

Waves

Well-Known Member
#16
I mean, technically if I opted out, there's no surplus of positive, or negative anymore. I'm just gone from this world. However, if I truly had the constitution for suicide, I would have done so a long time ago. I'm pretty much just holding out for God to take me out.



Pretty much. Nothing fulfills me, because I know that everything in this life is fleeting. And that my own life is a vapor (having an Ecclesiastes moment). I guess on one hand, I could try to take comfort in this, rather than lament it.



Of which I have neither.



I think that is an honorable virtue. Though how can one help others, when they can't even help themselves?



I'm going to read up on this.
So accepting that life is unfair and miserable is therapeutic? I am trying to understand how that is not depressing.
 

Dark111

SF Supporter
#17
Nowadays when i find myself contemplating suicide, I usually end up just reminding myself that I'm going to die one day anyway. No one is getting out of this alive. That's an absolute certainty. I'll get my death, that's for sure. Whether the Grim Reaper comes sooner or later, he's coming. And he means business. And that's when I find myself being brutally honest about why I want to end me: as an act of revenge. Revenge for the pointlessness of everything, revenge for the aging process, revenge for the loneliness, revenge for all the tragedy and malevolence that is the human condition.
 

Waves

Well-Known Member
#18
Nowadays when i find myself contemplating suicide, I usually end up just reminding myself that I'm going to die one day anyway. No one is getting out of this alive. That's an absolute certainty. I'll get my death, that's for sure. Whether the Grim Reaper comes sooner or later, he's coming. And he means business. And that's when I find myself being brutally honest about why I want to end me: as an act of revenge. Revenge for the pointlessness of everything, revenge for the aging process, revenge for the loneliness, revenge for all the tragedy and malevolence that is the human condition.
You described the horrors of life well. Do you ever think that suicidal thoughts are our make up and is just another cause of death. That being so then it is natural. And if natural for us then there should not be punishment if there is an afterlife? What do you think?
 

Optimistic Goatman

The woolly enigmatic one
Staff Alumni
SF Supporter
#19
I think that is an honorable virtue. Though how can one help others, when they can't even help themselves?
For what it's worth, i kind of feel like this site is proof that this is possible. It's a huge community of people who can't help themselves helping each other. That seems to be the nature of MH disorders, they make our own problems seem so much more unsolvable than those of others.

I'm going to read up on this.
If it helps and if you have this, i'd recommend doing some reading into radical acceptance, reflect on it for a week or two, and then watch an episode of this show on Netflix called the Midnight Gospel. (It sounds really religious but it's more of a drug-trip styled series of conversations with people about philosophy.) The episode is called "annihilation of joy", and it's a fascinating conversation based around this central motif:
It's all about this idea that our life is only as real as we tell ourselves it is, and that as a result, making ourselves miserable by comparing our current situation to, or pursuing, this version of life that's supposed to make us happy, is kind of inherently a flawed concept. A few months ago, i truly accepted this idea, and that it's ok my life isn't where i want it to be, and it helped me find so much more happiness and peace in spite of the constant physical pain, in spite of being mostly bedridden, in spite of currently going nowhere. I can't necessarily say it will be as effective for you as it was for me, but hopefully it could at least help your perspective a bit. *hug
 

sinking_ship

woman overboard
Forum Pro
SF Supporter
#20
I mean, technically if I opted out, there's no surplus of positive, or negative anymore. I'm just gone from this world.
True, from your experience. Though there are probably others who would consider your absence a negative.
But the missing out of positive experiences is one of the things that keeps me around sometimes. I grew up in a religious family and can remember being 5 and refusing to say the parts in prayer about Jesus coming back, because I didn't want things to end and me to miss out on the first grade haha.

I think that is an honorable virtue. Though how can one help others, when they can't even help themselves?
You should poke around the forums more and you will see how. It's actually much easier to help others than to help ourselves. Most of us are kind of hypocrites in that way - we can see the worth in others but consider ourselves exceptions.
 

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