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Can you rely on people?

extraterrestrialone

hi, guess who... its me...
SF Supporter
#21
There are many implications in this question that make it very difficult to answer. In many ways I resent having to be self reliant. I also don't feel good about asking for help.

In a family situation many things happen out of expectation but is that relying? Sometimes yes sometimes no.

I can text or email my therapist whenever I feel like it but I also know that I will only get an answer when I get an answer. I text her because I have an issue that requires an immediate answer. Same happens here on SF. In both cases I feel let down when there is no answer so I would say that is relying on others. It also is a state of not being able to rely on myself.

Yet in my growing up, my father especially used to say how I preferred to be on my own. But I actually resented that though never spoke up.

And sometimes people present themselves as offering something but then they don't follow up. Or I realize that they actually can't. It becomes distressing. That to me means I was relying. I usually find that I wish I was relied on. So what in that case is going on? To me it is a case of relying on others in order to feel needed and to be needed by people who I like. Doesn't mean I'd want to marry them but just be mutually supportive in some way. I've gotten the impression though that this is actually a violation of boundaries. Is this a societal attitude or actually the way it is?

Or does it mean I am just not attractive in any way to those I am attracted to. I rely on others for company and believe I have something worthwhile to to offer those people so it erodes my self worth that they show no interest on a mutual basis.

Sometimes it benefits them to offer help to others to make themselves feel more valuable but then they don't allow it the other way around. Makes relying generally a sad kind of thing.

Ultimately I feel as if I can't rely on myself and can't rely on others. Then there are many cases where relying does happen yet provide less than happy feelings.

Honestly there is so much to consider in this. It's what makes up society. I feel that for myself it's just that I'm not really considered worthwhile. While on the other hand feel that this feeling is simply a barrier I will never be able to understand yet of my own making.

Better yet, not of my own making but the state of being what I am - someone defective or just not having been offered the right training while an infant and child in need of societal training.

So they reliance in whichever way is just dysfunction. Yikes. This is torture to answer and torture to leave unanswered.
 
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Bergerac

Lost are only those who abandon themselves
#22
I think at the end of the day you can only rely on yourself BUT I do think you can put a helluva lot into some other people. Do you not think you can rely on your husband? What about him makes him not reliable?

I would 100% rely on Lu. I would trust her to make decisions if I got squashed by a car or if I suddenly had to clean out my bank accounts in a hurry I would trust her to do the right things. Do I know she's going to pick up the phone if I'm having a melt down? Sure. What else can you ask for?

At the same time no other person is forced to do shit for you so that reliance has to try to be maintained by you as much as possible. But what's wrong with leaning on your old man when things are messed up? What's wrong with unloading on him and letting him carry around some of that crap for a while. It'll still be there in a few hours / tomorrow / next week when you want it back.
Can I ask, what made both you and Lu know you could trust each other implicitly, and how long did it take to get to that moment?
I think a lot of people here always have that element of doubt, or are still wondering - when they first meet someone, or even when they've been in a relationship for a while.
You've both found something really special here.
 
#23
Can I ask, what made both you and Lu know you could trust each other implicitly, and how long did it take to get to that moment?
I think a lot of people here always have that element of doubt, or are still wondering - when they first meet someone, or even when they've been in a relationship for a while.
You've both found something really special here.
It’s an interesting 🤔 question, @Bergerac —& one I’m not trying to answer for anyone; but just thought I’d share one ☝️ particular individual viewpoint (which of course does not apply to all situations!). But if you believe that Fate- or anything like that, has anything to do with it... then at best, this process youre wondering or inquire ing ablut, is “giving your self / selves, the best opportunity to see if it is the case for you (two),” as you do what ever you can to get to know one another, and gain traction with the trust and chemistry / compatibility quotient. . . In the case, of both my Parents, and my closest female - friend growing up (who happened to be my Prom Date), there were two totally different scenarios. We were both the “firstborns,” and in my case, anyway, my folks had been to-heather since 13-14, something like that—& then married at 20 (damn religion! Or religious beliefs)- whereas hers: knew oke another for a mere Two_Weeks! ;) // not sure if she (her mother) got pregnant 🤰 or what! But they immediately got Married—so, wha tecer the reason: point I’m trying to illustrate, is that given that both sets are still together even after all of these years, and “happily,” so - at that (married!), it’d be fair or safe to say, that any sort of preconceived notion, or hard & fast / set rule, would be thrown out the window, if you believe that they were just two couples that were meant to be together (so I think you just have to be lucky enough to encounter the right person at the right time and so on and so foryh$. I can’t tell you how many co works I’ve had who’ve aller g Ed or claimed, that—“if only they were “available,”! Which I always took to mean or be an enormous’ crock!! ;) and an awfully convent thing to say—~> ;)
 

Bergerac

Lost are only those who abandon themselves
#24
It’s an interesting 🤔 question, @Bergerac —& one I’m not trying to answer for anyone; but just thought I’d share one ☝️ particular individual viewpoint (which of course does not apply to all situations!). But if you believe that Fate- or anything like that, has anything to do with it... then at best, this process youre wondering or inquire ing ablut, is “giving your self / selves, the best opportunity to see if it is the case for you (two),” as you do what ever you can to get to know one another, and gain traction with the trust and chemistry / compatibility quotient. . . In the case, of both my Parents, and my closest female - friend growing up (who happened to be my Prom Date), there were two totally different scenarios. We were both the “firstborns,” and in my case, anyway, my folks had been to-heather since 13-14, something like that—& then married at 20 (damn religion! Or religious beliefs)- whereas hers: knew oke another for a mere Two_Weeks! ;) // not sure if she (her mother) got pregnant 🤰 or what! But they immediately got Married—so, wha tecer the reason: point I’m trying to illustrate, is that given that both sets are still together even after all of these years, and “happily,” so - at that (married!), it’d be fair or safe to say, that any sort of preconceived notion, or hard & fast / set rule, would be thrown out the window, if you believe that they were just two couples that were meant to be together (so I think you just have to be lucky enough to encounter the right person at the right time and so on and so foryh$. I can’t tell you how many co works I’ve had who’ve aller g Ed or claimed, that—“if only they were “available,”! Which I always took to mean or be an enormous’ crock!! ;) and an awfully convent thing to say—~> ;)
Thank you so much for that answer and weirdly enough, it's entirely my thinking and how I've observed life to be.
The issue comes though, for those who don't meet this kind of person and how long you wait to try to. Some have issues of recognition and other factors come into the equation and they place all their hopes and dreams falsely on a 'wrong' person.
It's that idea of perfection, too and what these things are truly composed of.
People can be patient, look for and to, the longer-term, but that involves patience and trust and where the bar is set.
Thank you again.
There's also more than one path and more than one 'right' person - appealing to different senses of self, within us. Just depends what you want and need. The purpose and destiny you want to pursue.
 

Walker

Admin-a-monkey
ADMIN
SF Social Media
SF Author
SF Supporter
#25
Can I ask, what made both you and Lu know you could trust each other implicitly, and how long did it take to get to that moment?
I can't answer for her but we have had a policy of being as honest as possible with each other from day 1. I have a tendency to say shit like "I'm fine" when I don't really realize I'm not or things like that but as for outright lying to each other? We don't do that shit. It makes life easier as a whole and makes building trust faster. I've never once "caught her lying". There have been things we've expanded on as time went on or that I've clarified but if you've been with someone for 2.5 years and never found them lying about a thing that builds quite a foundation of trust, right?
So while I can't put my finger on "when I knew I could trust her implicitly", I knew I could trust her pretty early on (for reasons that don't matter here) and then it's grown from there from "trust her" to "trust her implicitly". Hope that answers your question a bit.
 

Bergerac

Lost are only those who abandon themselves
#26
I can't answer for her but we have had a policy of being as honest as possible with each other from day 1. I have a tendency to say shit like "I'm fine" when I don't really realize I'm not or things like that but as for outright lying to each other? We don't do that shit. It makes life easier as a whole and makes building trust faster. I've never once "caught her lying". There have been things we've expanded on as time went on or that I've clarified but if you've been with someone for 2.5 years and never found them lying about a thing that builds quite a foundation of trust, right?
So while I can't put my finger on "when I knew I could trust her implicitly", I knew I could trust her pretty early on (for reasons that don't matter here) and then it's grown from there from "trust her" to "trust her implicitly". Hope that answers your question a bit.
Thank you very much. I will take all of that on board. It makes perfect sense and sounds like a great foundation. Also keeps the lines of communication fully open. Thank you again.
 

extraterrestrialone

hi, guess who... its me...
SF Supporter
#27
. I lost a couple of friends when I attempted who accused me of being attention seeking (awful, right?). So I just want to say it goes both ways. Opening up is the hardest thing to do, especially when you come across folks like the previous ones.
This reminds me so much of an experience I had with a friend. Friendship I a think, I have failed at throughout my life and I still don't understand why. I believe I put all I can into it both in terms of need and being needed. But there is something that this incident may illustrate.

When I was in my second year of college my mother died of cancer. I still do not understand how I dealt and didn't deal with it. Not showing emotion at all cost is what consumed me. (I think this state is particularly of significance in another conversation I've encountered here).

I was called home urgently and within days she passed away. All I could do was to sneak to my room and burst into years. I sobbed for nearly 3 minutes. Frightening brief but that is literally the max I could handle.

I remained stone me from then on. But the summer a few months later I returned home again. I contacted my one and only friend from high school and he, a friend of his and i sat in the backyard and talked a couple hours and all that time I keep telling myself "tell them about mom". I wanted so much to tell. This guy was what I wanted to have as a friend. Yet as hard as I tried to speak up, I couldn't. Finally it got late and they had to leave. That was when I found the courage. (I realize I was not relying on him as a friend nor was I relying on myself. I still cannot figure this out) but of course he responded with disbelief. Then shock and then sympathy but then anger.

I tried but failed at explaining my difficulty. They left and never spoke to me again. Not exactly seeking attention but still not conforming to societal constraints that do not take into account emotions and difficulties of individuals.

I bumped into him a few years later and I asked about getting together and he bluntly said no! Said he was not interested in renewing high school friendships. This is probably more a case of him not being able to rely on me than the other way around. If a person cannot give his real self, it steals away the basis for connection. Yet though that was taken as some kind of gross coldness on my part, he never saw that I was drowning in a pit of molten lava screaming for help.

I only know from my own experience but I do know, cold people are screaming for help because they are not cold at all. They have just been securely locked inside their own heads and there is nothing to rely on there
 
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extraterrestrialone

hi, guess who... its me...
SF Supporter
#29
This reminds me so much of an experience I had with a friend. Friendship I a think, I have failed at throughout my life and I still don't understand why. I believe I put all I can into it both in terms of need and being needed. But there is something that this incident may illustrate.

When I was in my second year of college my mother died of cancer. I still do not understand how I dealt and didn't deal with it. Not showing emotion at all cost is what consumed me. (I think this state is particularly of significance in another conversation I've encountered here).

I was called home urgently and within days she passed away. All I could do was to sneak to my room and burst into years. I sobbed for nearly 3 minutes. Frightening brief but that is literally the max I could handle.

I remained stone me from then on. But the summer a few months later I returned home again. I contacted my one and only friend from high school and he, a friend of his and i sat in the backyard and talked a couple hours and all that time I keep telling myself "tell them about mom". I wanted so much to tell. This guy was what I wanted to have as a friend. Yet as hard as I tried to speak up, I couldn't. Finally it got late and they had to leave. That was when I found the courage. (I realize I was not relying on him as a friend nor was I relying on myself. I still cannot figure this out) but of course he responded with disbelief. Then shock and then sympathy but then anger.

I tried but failed at explaining my difficulty. They left and never spoke to me again. Not exactly seeking attention but still not conforming to societal constraints that do not take into account emotions and difficulties of individuals.

I bumped into him a few years later and I asked about getting together and he bluntly said no! Said he was not interested in renewing high school friendships. This is probably more a case of him not being able to rely on me than the other way around. If a person cannot give his real self, it steals away the basis for connection. Yet though that was taken as some kind of gross coldness on my part, he never saw that I was drowning in a pit of molten lava screaming for help.

I only know from my own experience but I do know, cold people are screaming for help because they are not cold at all. They have just been securely locked inside their own heads and there is nothing to rely on there
I need to add that I know that not understanding my inability to express was not a failing of my friend and is not the failings of those who do not experience being trapped the way I and others are, but our failings are not out of ill will toward others. I fight every day to keep sight of that and if I succeed at nothing else I will succeed at this. This anyone and everyone can rely on.
 

sinking_ship

woman overboard
Forum Pro
SF Supporter
#30
In talking with my therapist about how I *hate* asking for help, even from him, he said at some point when I was young I told myself that I can only ever rely fully on myself. But, isn't that true? I know there are plenty of people have had particularly bad experiences and will probably reply bitterly that you can't rely on anyone. Is anyone on the opposite end though? Do you really feel you can rely on people, or on a specific person or few in particular? What does that mean to you, like, what does it feel like?
I don't know how it is possible to not rely on others. We rely on others for most of our food, shelter, day to day essentials of life. I ran a business and relied on many to do their jobs. Maybe you have been taking others for granted. Not noticing how others play an important part of your life everyday. Try to understand: "no man is an island" we all need each other and should learn to appreciate the endless things others do for us. Love and God Bless
I think overall relying on others as as a member of society is a different thing than asking a specific person for something they may or may not be willing to provide.
 

DrownedFishOnFire

Back into the wild where I belong. Out of your way
Staff Alumni
SF Supporter
#32
Grew up not depending on my parents for anything emotionally or schoolwise. That kind of transferred into my adulthood. Am too independent however i will drop what i am doing for my family who have matured alot in the last 10 years and friends if they ask me for help.
 

Acy

Mama Bear - TLC, Common Sense
ADMIN
#35
I think trust is “built” as a relationship is built. @Walker offers a great example of how he and Lu did that in their relationship.

My sense is that some people are always reliable, some are never reliable. We find out by testing the waters as we get to know them. And sometimes people do make honest mistakes and for one reason or another are unreliable at some point. If it’s a one-time thing, an unusual blip, then we can rebuild trust. If it’s a pattern, maybe they are not reliable.

I would say get to know people and see if we can rely on and trust them in small ways, then if we can, build on that.

With most situations, I figure out how I will manage on my own, then I talk to friends and family. In the past, there have been people who let me down. With patience, honest communication about my needs and their needs, trust and reliability is better on all sides - theirs and mine. :) My suggestion is to work at it in relationships - build it and then test it.

I hope all of you are doing well! :)
 

Freya

Loves SF
Forum Owner
ADMIN
SF Author
#36
@sinking_ship I understand this thing about only relying on yourself. I explained to Matt repeatedly in the beginning that “it’s dumb” to lean on someone because that’s how you end up falling over. Suddenly they’re not there anymore and everything collapses. It took a lot to trust Matt and I don’t mean trust like “be honest” because as he said, we drew that line early.

I trust him completely but I am not sure you’re talking about that. I think you’re talking about letting yourself be weak and letting someone else take the reins for a while. To be able to rest. To rely on someone to take the first watch on life while you get some sleep, metaphorically speaking.

I have issues with this also. I know Matt would absolutely take care of me, take care of ‘things’ whatever they may be, if I needed that. But I struggle with it all the same. In part because it’s ‘my job’ and he shouldn’t have to (in my head). I love him and I want to take care of him and the ‘taking care of’ is MY job. Of him, of ‘things’, of other people, of everything... I’m aware that is not reasonable but it’s how I feel. In part because he could get hit by a bus tomorrow and then what? You can’t rely on someone to be there - to do whatever - because while they may always choose to, it may not be something they can choose. It may be out of their control.

As you can see, I have some issues with this. I think that it isn’t about the other person’s “reliableness” it is about your need for control, your belief that the universe might whip away the thing you are relying on. I’m not the best person for advice because, like I said, in my head everything is my responsibility and I haven’t learned a route out of that yet, but I do believe, finally, that it is more healthy to be able to rely on someone else than to be responsible for everything alone.
 

Gonz

sick and tired of being sick and tired
#40
I am very fortunate to have a few lifelong friends whom I could call at 4am in any kind of emergency and they'd be there, no questions asked, and vice versa.
In this sense, yeah. Even before we were together I could have called Jessica to, like, help me get rid of a body or something and she wouldn't even have asked what happened until it was good and buried.
 

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