Can't say I can

Discussion in 'Rants, Musings and Ideas' started by Prof.Bruttenholm, Apr 27, 2011.

  1. Prof.Bruttenholm

    Prof.Bruttenholm Well-Known Member

    I can't draw simple damn figure!
    I have no future as a professional graphic artist if I can't do the simplest thing possible.
    It's all I want to do in my life, my only dream and if I can't achieve it I see no point to living a life unfulfilled, so I won't.

    Everyone tells me "Practice", I do practice and nothing improves at all!!!!!!!!!!

    Everyone is telling me "don't say you can't, say you can" and guess what, did that and nothing has changed, I can't even push myself to say I can at this point.

    I don't see much of a reason not to kill myself.
     
  2. icequeen

    icequeen Well-Known Member

    do i understand you correctly that you want to die because you cant draw?
    dont take this the wrong way, that is how i read your post and welcome
     
  3. Prof.Bruttenholm

    Prof.Bruttenholm Well-Known Member

    Basically.
    My only dream is to be a professional graphic artist and I have no chance at it.

    So why should I live a life unfulfilled if I have no chance at achieving my dream?
     
  4. icequeen

    icequeen Well-Known Member

    hey, what gave you this dream..i figure you must feel good at art to want to achieve this...so what happened to make you doubt yourself? even it this is not an option for whatever reason, there are other options surely that you can use your gift. i am guessing here, but i figure you must have the gift of art otherwise you wouldnt want to use it.

    forgive my ignorance..just trying to understand and help :)
     
  5. Prof.Bruttenholm

    Prof.Bruttenholm Well-Known Member

    I've always loved drawing and art but I don't want to be a fine artist (museums/galleries kind of artist) I want to be a graphic artist, make the thing I love also my bread and butter.
     
  6. icequeen

    icequeen Well-Known Member

    ok..you will need to guide me on this a bit. i am assuming you are actually good at art, but dont want to do the fine art stuff.

    who said you were not good enough to be a graphic artist? have you gone to college and failed or something or is it self doubt.

    what area do you want to work in, desktop publishing, illustration. have you applied to be a Production Artist or Multimedia Specialist which would give you the experience you need to be come graphic designer. there is also web designing.

    sometimes dream jobs are just that, dreams! sometimes things dont work out the way we hope but you can always use your talent in a hobby rather than just give up. good luck
     
  7. Prof.Bruttenholm

    Prof.Bruttenholm Well-Known Member

    I'm not good, self-doubt a bit more like self-awareness.
    I am in college but with nothing to show for it and more than half way done.

    I have no experience as a graphic artist and no way to gain any.

    This isn't a hobby, this is my dream and my life, without my dream I have no life and that is all.
     
  8. oval

    oval Well-Known Member

    do you feel like putting something up? not for us to just compliment it but just for the heck of it. im curious, if you dont mind me asking
     
  9. dazzle11215

    dazzle11215 Staff Alumni

    you say you aren't getting any better. that's not possible. what is stopping you? depression? if so, deal with the depression and when you feel better, keep working towards your dream. do you need new teachers? a different medium? what are you studying in school? are you in a commercial art program or something related? i recommend this book, the war of art by steven pressfield, in it he talks about the difference between being a professional and an amateur in the creative professions. a professional shows up and does the work needed, every day. every, single day. an amateur says, yes, i will follow my dream, but i will start tomorrow. which do you want to be? a professional or an amateur?
     
  10. Prof.Bruttenholm

    Prof.Bruttenholm Well-Known Member

    I won't post anything.

    I am not in any commercial art program, not sure where any are.
    I am in college and I have taken almost every class and have tried every single medium.

    I practice daily.
    I want to be a professional.

    I won't post anything because I am terrible.
     
  11. dazzle11215

    dazzle11215 Staff Alumni

    i replied to your pm. sorry if i sounded mean.

    on this thread i just want to say don't give up. find a good teacher, not just a class that meets once a week, but a private teacher that can work with you every day if needed and study hard. give it your everything.

    i believe in you
     
  12. PollyAnna

    PollyAnna Account Closed

    I believe In you too ,James bear:)
     
  13. Prof.Bruttenholm

    Prof.Bruttenholm Well-Known Member

    Thanks for all the belief but I have nothing else.

    No private teacher.
    No extra time during the week.
    Nothing.
    I go to school full time and work part time.
    My time to practice is on break, in between classes and after it all when I get home, at the same time I have home responsibilities, including cooking, cleaning, laundry and having to help take care of my grandmother which is becoming more taxing by the day.
     
  14. dazzle11215

    dazzle11215 Staff Alumni

    something has to give. you can't do it without lessons. it's that simple. is there an art program at your college? maybe you can put a poster up there looking for a teacher. or maybe when you are done your degree you can take a year off and focus on your art. you will have to sacrifice something. your time, your other commitments, something has to give. otherwise you are setting yourself up to fail. and i don't want that for you. i want you to succeed at this. it's like you have jumped in the deep end but you never learned to swim. first things first. learn to draw. take lessons.
     
  15. Prof.Bruttenholm

    Prof.Bruttenholm Well-Known Member

    ...sorry, my typing keys must be broken.
    NO TEACHERS!!! I've looked, I've tried, my professors have their own lives and don't have time to spend on me.
    Before going to college I tried the only artist I knew who said he wouldn't because he didn't want to affect my education.

    And no I don't NEED lessons, I can name two self taught artists right off the top of my head. Greg Capullo and Frank Cho, two highly regarded professiona graphic designers/ comic book artists.

    I can't take a year off, I'd still have to work and if work found out I was off for a year they'd have me working more hours.
    I can't sacrifice anything or I lose everything, that is just how my crappy life is.
     
  16. Mr Stewart

    Mr Stewart Well-Known Member

    Okay Prof.B, I have a bachelor's in fine arts and have worked part-time as a freelance illustrator since graduating about four years ago. I'd like to offer some advice, but I need some information from you first.

    1. When you say "graphic artist", what do you mean? Are we talking typeset and layout stuff? Logo design? Marketing illustrations? Cartoon illustrations? Concept art? Comics? There's a lot of different career paths here and some require different skills (and skill levels) than others.

    2. How long have you been drawing with aspirations of doing it professionally? Meaning, how long have you been trying for realsies?


    Right now I want you to know that I completely understand your frustration. I've been there, believe me.
     
  17. dazzle11215

    dazzle11215 Staff Alumni

    you say you don't need lessons but at the same time you complain that you are not getting better teaching yourself. the solution is right in front of you. you can choose to ignore that if you like. your choice. i only know what worked for me as i became an artist. listen to what harrachos has to say. he's been there.
     
  18. Prof.Bruttenholm

    Prof.Bruttenholm Well-Known Member

    First to Harrachos.

    1. I have done more logo work in my Graphic Design courses, I have worked with illustration but for me, I will do whatever I can.
    I'd like to do concept art but since I can't draw damn figure, that is impossible.

    2. I've always loved drawing and art but didn't start getting serious until late in high school, so for about 4 years now.

    To Dazzle...where? Where am I to get a teacher when there isn't one?
    I have no time, no money to pay for a tutor, I don't have anything.
    If I give up something then I'll lose everything.
    If I stop going to school for a year it could affect my financial aid status and I may not want to go back to school for being out for so long, at the same time work will find out and want me to work more and more.
    If I don't work, I can't afford to pay for the tutor or anything, that is all for that.
    So basically, no to tutor, no to taking a year off, no to quitting job.

    Note: On top of all of this. I am in a community college, I've finished all my Associates degree courses and I am transferring to a four year school for my next two years to get my bachelors degree, but I can't afford college, I had to get financial aid for community college.
    But I got turned down from two art schools, now I find out my last two choices for schools that I can attend near me that are regular state schools may be down to one.
    I got a letter saying one of the two schools won't give me any aid despite the fact that I am making the same amount of money as last year.
    So basically I am down to one last school option and if I can't get help with that then I will have no school options.
    I won't accept debt, especially not 15,000 dollars worth of it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 29, 2011
  19. Mr Stewart

    Mr Stewart Well-Known Member


    Okay.

    First, the sad and unfortunate truth: this industry is a ruthless cutthroat business, especially if you're freelancing. It's very hard and extremely stressful even if you're decent at it (which I am). My experience in the professional field is part of the reason you've found me here, on a forum devoted to suicide support. However, if you're business savvy, you may have an easier time.

    On to happier topics:

    -graphic design jobs; your logo, typeface, layout, marketing presentation type stuff does not require a high level of drawing skill. This is an easier path to take, there are more permanent full-time jobs in this field, and the money is better at entry level on average. Important skills for this job are mostly software proficiencies and good attention to detail. Hiring companies will have a list of software they'd like you to be familiar with in addition to judging you based on your portfolio. So, stuff like Adobe creative suite (Photoshop, Illustrator, Acrobat etc.), some java related stuff, some flash related stuff, and some familiarity with web design/html.

    The absolute best way to learn those things outside of school is to get a part-time job in a print shop. There you will learn a lot about the nuts and bolts of image production software that is extremely important to all graphic design work.

    Regarding drawing instruction, dazzle11215 is correct that you cannot do this alone. While there are alternatives to formal instructors you will need to enlist the help of other people to get better. That is non-negotiable. Call around to local art stores/schools and ask if there are any public drop-in life drawing courses available. These are basically casual classes that revolve entirely around figure drawing. A model is hired each week and drawing sessions are held on a weekly or bi-weekly basis for a small fee. This is very cheap. A few bucks a session, under $20 at the maximum. No commitments, no grading. Often at these sessions there will be an instructor offering help to anyone who asks. Also, be persistent and keep hassling this artist friend of yours for help. Annoy the hell out of him about it if necessary. There are no points in life for politely accepting refusal.

    Go to the library and find books on proportion, linear perspective, and anatomy. There are lots of books geared towards figure drawing specifically. Study.

    Once you feel confident enough to post artwork on the 'net, go to drawing forums and ask for critiques. www.drawingboard.org is a good place for that, or it used to be anyway. Friendly people for the most part. Listen to what people have to say and always maintain objectivity. You'll need to develop a thick skin about that stuff. Try not to be defensive and take things personally.

    No matter what area of professional art you're interested in, you'll need to put together a portfolio. Best way to do that is just to look at other people's portfolio's for that field and take notes on what they've included, things they're trying to show off, etc. This is the end goal, right before you start applying for jobs. Do not rush this. It takes time.

    Debt is not a death sentence. I have about twice the figure you've posted hanging over my head at the moment and it isn't holding me back as much as you'd think. Goddamned annoying for sure, but necessary, and liveable. Education is worth it.


    If you take anything away from what I've written, remember this: drawing is hard. Contrary to common opinion it is not an on/off switch. You are not either good at it or bad at it with no in between. If you're kind of good at it, it does not mean doing good drawings is easy. It is never easy. Not for anyone. The best artists in the world still have their days of hair yanking frustration occassionally. This takes years and you will not see noticeable improvements from day to day. You must have faith that practicing every day year after year will produce improvement, which it does.

    You say you can't draw a figure now, but I'll bet you can hammer out a pretty slick looking stick man, right? Well, that's step 1 down. There are about 10,000 steps. Strap on the boots and prepare to climb the mountain.

    Good luck. Now, vamos! :poke:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 29, 2011
  20. Prof.Bruttenholm

    Prof.Bruttenholm Well-Known Member

    I knew absolutely everything you've told me.
    I've tried all of it.
    My college courses have included...
    Adobe Illustrator
    Adobe Photoshop
    Graphic Design 1
    Graphic Design 2
    Digital Photography
    Drawing
    Life Drawing
    Design
    Designing a Portfolio
    Studio Art
    Drawing 2

    Since I like comics I also took Creative Writing and Childrens Literature courses.

    I tried to become an intern at a local advertising/sign design studio, the only one near me ...at all..and never got a single response no matter what.

    There is nowhere around me that does life drawing sessions, not for miles, I don't drive and no bus or train goes to the only town that is more than two hours drive away.
    I am a full time college student and part time employee, I work 20-30 hours a week.

    Also, if I can't draw without an instructor, then explain Frank Cho (http://images.comicbookresources.com/litg/2008/0204/Ultimates03v3432.jpg)
    or Greg Capullo (http://www.spawn.com/features/endgame/wp-content/uploads/spawn.cover.185.greg.pencils.lg.jpg).

    I have books for teaching me CSS and C++, quick ten minute studies a day, but I need to find time to do it.
    I also have a comprehensive book on HTML ( both the latest and oldest).

    I have multiple books on drawing and art, including, figure drawing, drawing basics, landscape, drawing fantasy style females and other books.
    I have studied multiple books available at my school library and took Human Anatomy and Physiology in college as a science course and studied muscles deeply.

    I just suck.
    That is all.