Church Tells HIV Patients To Stop Treatment

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by In a Lonely Place, Nov 25, 2011.

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  1. In a Lonely Place

    In a Lonely Place Well-Known Member

    Church Tells HIV Patients To Stop Treatment

    Last Updated 13:15 25/11/2011
    Liz Lane, Sky News reporter
    At least six people have died in Britain after being told they had been healed of HIV and could stop taking their medication, Sky News has discovered.
    There is evidence evangelical churches in London, Manchester, Birmingham and Glasgow are claiming to cure HIV through God.

    Sky sent three undercover reporters to the Synagogue Church of All Nations (SCOAN), which is based in Southwark, south London.

    All of them told the pastors they were HIV positive - all were told they could be healed.

    Once a month, the church has a prayer line, where people from across Europe come to be cured of all kinds of illness.

    At registration, they have to hand over a doctor's letter as evidence of their condition.

    They are filmed giving before and after testimonies, which are put on SCOAN's website.

    The healing process involves the pastor shouting over the person being healed for the devil to come out of their body, while spraying water in their face.

    One of the pastors, Rachel Holmes, told Sky's reporter Shatila, who is a genuine HIV sufferer, they had a 100% success rate.

    Ms Holmes said: "We have many people that contract HIV. All are healed."

    She said, if symptoms such as vomiting or diarrhoea persist, it is actually a sign of the virus leaving the body.

    "We've had people come back before saying, 'Oh, I'm not healed. The diarrhoea I had when I had HIV, I've got it again,'" Ms Holmes said.

    "I have to stop them and say, 'No, please, you are free.'"

    SCOAN told Sky's reporters they would be able to discard their medication after their healing and that they would be free to start a family.

    Former health secretary Lord Fowler, who led the HIV/Aids awareness drive in the 1980s, said this message was dangerous.

    He said: "It is foolish advice and it is tragic advice because the consequences of this kind of advice can only be that people pass on HIV and can only be seriously bad for the individual concerned - including death."

    Medical professionals have told Sky of at least six patients who died after being told by various churches to stop taking their HIV tablets.

    Emmanuel came off his medication a year ago on the instructions of a pastor at his church in north London.

    He said: "(The pastor) told me I'd been healed - 'You've got to stop taking the medicine now. I'll keep praying for you. Once God forgives you then the disease will definitely go.'"

    Emmanuel admitted he suspects he may have passed HIV onto his boyfriend.

    He said: "Yeah, I think I've passed it on. He got ill. Physically, he's lost some bit of weight.

    "He's very small. I think he's worried... Yeah, I feel guilty, if I'm the one who passed it onto him I'm feeling guilty. Yeah, very much guilty."

    The Synagogue Church of All Nations is wealthy. It has branches across the globe and its own TV channel.

    On its website, it promotes its anointing water, which is used during the healing, and it also makes money from merchandise, such as DVDs, CDs and books.

    Church members are expected to give regular donations.

    It is also a registered UK charity. The Charity Commission is looking at our findings.

    The Department of Health said it was very concerned: "Our advice is clear that faith and prayer are not a substitute for any form of treatment, especially for HIV treatment."

    Sky asked the church for its response to our investigation.

    In a statement, it said: "We are not the Healer - God is the Healer. Never a sickness God cannot heal. Never a disease God cannot cure. Never a burden God cannot bear. Never a problem God cannot solve.

    "To His power, nothing is impossible. We have not done anything to bring about healing, deliverance or prosperity. If somebody is healed, it is God who heals.

    "We must have a genuine desire if we come to God. We are not in position to question anybody's genuine desire. Only God knows if one comes with true desire. Only God can determine this.

    "That is why, if anybody comes in the name of God, we pray for them. The outcome of the prayer will determine if they come genuinely or not."
  2. In a Lonely Place

    In a Lonely Place Well-Known Member

    Sounds like something from the dark ages! A pastor shouting for the devil to leave their body while throwing water in their face. Do some people not know what year it is ?
  3. lightbeam

    lightbeam Antiquities Friend

    *sigh* People will believe anything. It's a hard fact, but it is true. I feel bad for the 6 people. They deserved better.
  4. Kaos General

    Kaos General Well-Known Member

    Sky News has discovered.

    Really? Guess they missed the BBC London News report on the same subject 3 months ago.
  5. In a Lonely Place

    In a Lonely Place Well-Known Member

    Yeah I didn't see it had already been a thread on here so whatever
  6. GreyCat

    GreyCat Well-Known Member

    Appalling, really appalling.
  7. justMe7

    justMe7 Well-Known Member

    Aw :( Sad story. My family is pretty religious, so when my aunt had cancer, the family did some praying and they convinced themselves that she was cured. Now, I don't know if they believed it completley, or believed it just so they could enjoy the final months with her in enjoyment instead of in misery. I stay with the fact that it was a spiritual liberation from the pain and torment of the disease. Or whatever.
    :( real shame about these people. Beliefe is lovely. But don't start mixing beliefe with known facts. It distorts reality so badly and people believe it. .. Ignorant people in positions of influence.
  8. perry_mason

    perry_mason Well-Known Member

    yeah but Sky News is better than the bbc.

    anyway, at the risk of being flamed here - i don't feel sorry for these HIV Patients, if they are foolish enough to believe some church and not some professional in the medical sector, they deserve what they get.
  9. Butterfly

    Butterfly Resident SF Sims Enthusiast Staff Alumni SF Author SF Supporter

    Disgusting. It sickens me to think that religious people are targeting and brainwashing the desperate and vulnerable. They should be arrested on conspiracy to murder charges. But this just goes to show how gullible the human race and also how evil it is.
  10. tx915

    tx915 Active Member

    I don't think religion can be blame in a generalized way. This points to a bigger problem in society than religion. In my opinion, this shows how hopeless many of our fellow humans are on the planet that they are willing to believe anything regardless of the consequences. I'm a very religious, yet liberal, person. If anyone in our congregation is sick, yes, we pray for them but we also drive them to the Dr.s and to their hospital appointments. What that church did to those poor HIV infected people was an abuse of power and trust.

    Those people made their own choices and I doubt it was brainwashing. They were missing something in their lives and unfortunately they found a piece of it at that church. The blame is on the particular church for what happened afterwards though.
  11. In a Lonely Place

    In a Lonely Place Well-Known Member

    Yeah it's all well and good saying those six people made their own choices and they were misguided individuals for sure. However without a church spouting their bullshit at how god can cure you they wouldn't have had the encouragement to quit the medication. They are preying on vulnerable people and should face charges in the same way you can be tried for encouraging someone to commit suicide.
  12. justMe7

    justMe7 Well-Known Member

    mmhmm :)

    Some people don't understand that some people of religious beliefe truly tie their lives to the words and feelings of their Church. They believe in God more than they believe that we breath oxygen. Sometimes when they need that touch, and when someone who is a "conduit" to god(priests) says God has healed you, they believe it. They believe that taking the medication is going against their beliefe and connection to what literally keeps them sane inside.

    So it's all good and dandy for people to call these people ignorant. Which to a degree they are. But they're like children on this level. Or spouses who beliefe their lover wont beat them again. It's a beliefe that abused by the people that have a direct connection to it. These priests are idiots, and should be ashamed for abusing peoples hearts like this.
  13. Prinnctopher's Belt

    Prinnctopher's Belt Antiquities Friend SF Supporter

    What a revelation!
  14. Kaos General

    Kaos General Well-Known Member

    I dont know if their was a thread on it on here, i was just amused at Sky acting like it was some sort of exclusive from them.

    How is sky news better than bbc news? Its news. No matter who tells it. I tend yo watch sky news and bbc news, the only difference being the bbc news has local news about my area.

    Anyway i still stand by with what i said at the time, its peoples own fault for going to church and believing everything that comes out of the mouth of the arse standing at the front of the congregation. The HIV story is just one of the many madnesses that occurs. The one thats more worrying is the fact that pastors/vicars or whoever you wanna call them tell parents its OK to beat their children with the excuse that the devil is inside them. Then theirs the paedophile priests in the catholic church, and who could forget the panorama programme on the muslim faith schools where they beat the shit out of the kids. But its ok, its in gods name. Well if its in gods name then i shall bend over and he can kiss my big hairy ass and suck my balls.
  15. lord.nigel

    lord.nigel Well-Known Member

    hmmm well the church can say a lot of things....but whether we choose to listen is another thing..

    i personally think whatever church this is needs to shut up..... too often to these close minded individuals sit there contemplating what is best for other people..

    how dare you tell people how to live their life and whether they should live at all........ i hate it...

    altho i do feel a sense of happiness knowing they judge themselves by the same limiting ideals and that in turn they may never experience true happiness..

    ha ;)
  16. AsphyxiateOnMisery

    AsphyxiateOnMisery Well-Known Member

    That's so, so sad. The stupidity of the situation, that is. And it's one thing that religious people are dumb enough to believe they can cure HIV, but how dumb do YOU have to be to believe you're cured of HIV with religion? I don't know. The word stupidity doesn't really do it justice but I can't think of another word at the moment. Maybe idiocy...but that's no better.
  17. Raven

    Raven Guest

    I have never understood this line of reasoning, that putting faith in God will cure your disease. The God I read about in the judo-Christian faith was not a God of praying your problems away but getting up and doing something about it. God did not build an ark for Noah, he told him what was coming and to get to work.
    I fail to see how letting modern medicine help you with your illness somehow distracts from your faith.
  18. Random

    Random Well-Known Member

    You feel bad for them because they were too stupid to know any better? What is the fucking world coming to?
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