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Discussion in 'Rants, Musings and Ideas' started by AsphyxiateOnWords, Jun 25, 2012.

  1. AsphyxiateOnWords

    AsphyxiateOnWords Eρεβος/Νύξ

    Boy, am I codependent. I really feel like I'm not worth a damn unless someone is there to validate my worth for me. It took me kicking my fiancée out of the house again for him to finally realize he needed to go to rehab. He signed himself in today. I'm happy he chose to do that, but feel so worthless and depressed without him. I didn't want it to come to this, but the drugs changed him so much that I didn't even feel like I knew him anymore at all. I tolerated it for a long time, until I couldn't tolerate it any longer. I know I did the right thing. I stepped out of his way and let him reach his bottom, where the pain of using became greater than the pain of getting help. I could be saving his life. And mine. So why does it feel so horrible then? Why do good decisions always feel so horrible? Since he seems to be taking recovery seriously, we will most likely be together again when he gets out of rehab. But right now, it just sucks. I hate not feeling in control, not having him here with me, and not knowing what exactly will happen.
  2. Butterfly

    Butterfly Sim Addict Staff Alumni SF Author SF Supporter

    Sometimes the right decisions to make are often the ones that hurt the most. You are doing the best for you, I am just sorry it took your partner so long to see what it was doing to both him and you. This pain will be temporary, you are bound to miss him, feel guilty etc but look at the good that is going to come out of this which will benefit you both in the long run.
  3. AsphyxiateOnWords

    AsphyxiateOnWords Eρεβος/Νύξ

    It turned out to all be lies -- every single word that came out of his mouth. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. That's what active addicts do.

    He was never at rehab. He bullshitted about the whole thing in order to get me back. Also bullshitted that he was on the streets when I kicked him out to get me to feel sorry for him (he actually went to stay with his father). His dad is the one who told me all this.

    He tried to apologize for lying (aka manipulate me some more) and I wasn't having it. I blocked him from contacting me, and I am done. Period. Never going to be with an addict again. I don't care if they are active or recovering. Never again.
  4. total eclipse

    total eclipse SF Friend Staff Alumni

    I hope you do move on hun just do it ok don't let him back he is not wanting to do the work to change and he will drag you down under with him Lock everything take him off your computer your phone and just get out and start living life now for YOU hugs
  5. AsphyxiateOnWords

    AsphyxiateOnWords Eρεβος/Νύξ

    Thanks :) that's what I'm trying to do. It's been almost a week now since we split and I didn't shrivel up and die, imagine that :)
  6. AsphyxiateOnWords

    AsphyxiateOnWords Eρεβος/Νύξ

    I just went to the doctor today and got my anxiety and sleep meds. I feel a bit better :)
  7. Damask

    Damask Well-Known Member

    That's good to hear. It sounds like you were in a very poisonous situation. Glad you got out. :)
  8. AsphyxiateOnWords

    AsphyxiateOnWords Eρεβος/Νύξ

    Wow. Just wow. It's 3 AM and here I am re-reading hundreds of our (my recovering addicted fiancée and I's) texts since July 2nd and I have become SO utterly pathetic over this period of time compared to how I was when we first started taking again that day. Firstly for obvious reasons...it's 3 fucking AM. I should be asleep because I have to wake up in 5 hours...not reading texts we sent back and forth. Secondly, at first it was me who seemed confident and stable and he seemed anxious and afraid - afraid I would change my mind about being with him, that I would find someone else, that i didnt want to talk to him and he was bothering me, that I was happy without him, that other guys would look at me or try to hit on me, etc. Now it's reversed. I am so awful and pathetic. Always negative and down on myself, freaking out and getting upset if he doesn't answer my texts right away, getting afraid he'd replace me, afraid he'd change his mind about being with me, and just generally making it known I feel uncared about and unneeded. How exactly did the tables turn like that in 9 days??? I want to blame it all on that stupid medication... If I wasn't getting off suboxone and never had that panic attack and never went totally apeshit over something that he said that didn't even matter and didn't intend to break every single healthy boundary I set (though I did break a few and saw him sooner than I said I would...), then maybe I wouldn't be so pessimistic again and hating myself, wishing it didn't happen and feeling pathetic that it did. I want to say this was because I was in mental withdrawal from the med and fell into depression because of it. That this isn't the real me. But you know what, even before I started the withdrawal I think I was just getting worse and worse little by little as he got better and better. I could just tell reading back some of the stuff I said. I swear it's almost like he feeds off of my negativity and insecurities and it helps him become more confident. I am so so wrong for this. I was doing so well and now I'm doing so badly. I need to go back to doing well. But I know that won't happen... I need to stop this ridiculous behavior. But I know I won't until either he hurts me or I hurt myself, whichever comes first.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2012
  9. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Well-Known Member

    I didn't want to say anything before... I remember reading a post of yours where you said that your fiancée was an addict, but that you were okay with that... I was instantly reminded of a Chris Rock joke: "if you're a crackhead, your wife has to be a crackhead too, or the shit won't work."

    I know your situation is complicated. You did do the right thing by forcing him to seek help, and I know the right thing is never easy to do. I understand codependency. I understand thinking that you're the confident one, only to find that you're more dependent on the person than you originally thought.

    I don't mean to sound critical here, but you're not okay and content with life. I've known that for a while, and I don't even really know you. But then, it seems that you don't really know yourself either. If I recall, you've been critical of me in the past, and rightfully so... I'll be the first to admit that I have issues. What I'm saying to you now is not out of cruelty... it's not about saying "I told you so"... it's out of sympathy and genuine concern for you, even though you are a complete stranger to me -

    You need help. You are not as strong as you thought you were. You need to be honest with yourself. You've taken the first step in realizing that everything is not in fact hunky dory. You managed to push your depression out of your mind for a while, but the root causes are still there. You still have issues that you need to deal with, and until you deal with them properly, they will always keep cropping back up again. I know this because I went through the same phase myself, for years I was convinced that I had finally overcome my depression... I could not have been more wrong.

    Sorry for the bit of tough love there :hug:

    I know you're going through a lot right now, and I'm not trying to make you feel worse... I just want you to know that I'm proud of you, both for having the strength to force your fiancée to seek the help that he needs, and for finally coming to terms with the darkness inside of yourself that you have been hiding from. It takes guts to face your inner demons... not only your own, but his as well. You've got quite an uphill battle ahead of you, but you've already proven that you possess the strength to handle it.

    Again, sorry for butting in to things that probably aren't any of my business. It may come as a surprise to some on here that I actually do read and remember their posts, even if I don't respond to them. I know I'm just a stranger to you, but if you ever feel like talking, feel free to PM me. Though I'll understand if you don't feel you can gain any insight from someone like me, I'm not exactly a role model or living success story. I am flawed and make plenty of mistakes of my own... you probably just think I'm an obnoxious asshole anyway. Fair enough, I'm sure my reputation is well deserved. :smile:
  10. AsphyxiateOnWords

    AsphyxiateOnWords Eρεβος/Νύξ

    I really didn't mean to seem or sound critical of you in any way. I think I remember what post you're talking about and all I was trying to do was let you know that things can get better and they're not all bad all the time. In fact, nothing is just good or bad, it's how we view it. Our perception of things. There is only such a thing as subjective morality, not objective. I never said I was cured. Maybe I made it sound that way in my posts because I didn't mention anything negative but there still was plenty of negative. I had just chosen not to perceive it that way. In Naranon we are taught that we are not victims, we are volunteers. It sounds cruel at first but if you think about it, viewing yourself as a victim makes you feel stuck and like you can't do anything about it. Viewing yourself as a volunteer makes you say "oh crap. I don't HAVE to react or look at things that way? I can choose something else?". That's how I thought, at least. I didn't know I could be different. But also, just because I'm not cured and having a rough time doesn't mean everything I worked so hard on for 4 months has just gone away. It's still there. I'm still better in some ways, however invisible they may seem right now. Yes, I wanted to die again, and still kind of do and am somewhat disappointed the feelings aren't strong enough to do anything about it. And no...there's nothing positive to really say about that. No "ifs" "ands" or "buts" to it. I still want to die. But I also know that I'm doing the best I can at this moment even if my best doesn't seem to raise the bar very high. I'm not going to tell myself things can't get better just because I'm having a relapse in my thinking. I'm going to tell myself that they can, if I let them. Maybe today good decisions seem to feel too shitty to act on, but that doesn't mean anything other than this is all I can do right now and I have to accept that. When or if I can do better again, I will. Sorry if I made you feel bad before in any way. I probably should have just shut up because I know how annoying it was to me when people told me there was a silver lining and I didn't see it no matter how much or how hard I looked. I wanted to tell them they were blind, that it all turns to shit sooner or later no matter what happens. That nobody can help me because I've tried my best and it never happened, so why not just kill myself and get it over with instead of just whining about it all the time like a coward? I'm going to conclude that I have to keep waiting. I have to accept that I don't have control over everything in life and give it up to fate. Until that happens, I'll probably continue to think about dying. It feels shitty to know that you know better and know exactly what you have to do to make this go away and you just can't because it's too difficult and you can't emotionally handle it. It's always easier to go the wrong route it seems. But I can admit that I know what's best for me and just don't want it. And I guess that's my choice. A dumb one, but a choice nonetheless. I'm not sure if 2 drug addicts can be together to be honest. I think something would split them up sooner or later because neither one cares about the other, only getting high. I tried that already. That's why I'm in this stupid mess with suboxone. I wanted him to stop lying, to love me, and I thought if I used he would. Obviously it never happened cause I quit.
  11. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Well-Known Member

    I already know things can get better... I wouldn't still be here if they couldn't. But sometimes I get in one of those down moods, and I just want to feel down, and there's not much anyone can say to cheer me up in the moment.

    Hmm, well, I think I may have to disagree slightly with the notion that nothing is good or bad... being bullied at school, abused by parental figures, losing a loved one, those are pretty much just bad, lol. I mean I suppose I could perceive it as being good, but that wouldn't be healthy, would it? :smile:

    I'm actually glad that I'm unhappy in my current life, because my current life is unfulfilling, and discomfort is the only thing that will motivate me to change it. As long as I feel content and comfortable, I will never take action. I need to feel miserable to the point of considering suicide in order to be able to take a leap of faith and move on. As a child, yes, I was absolutely a victim. I had no control over my situation then. But now, you're right, I am a volunteer. I am volunteering to feel miserable because if I don't change my life, I will die with too many regrets. Life is too short to waste it.

    Of course everything you learn in life will help you in the long run, even if it doesn't do you much good in the short term. Don't worry, you didn't make me feel bad, because I realized that you too are a person who is suffering and trying to recover. I've probably made others feel bad when I was only trying to be helpful. Maybe it's ridiculous for someone as damaged as I am to offer advice, but I don't really think that anyone is qualified to give advice on a subject until they have personally dealt with it... even someone who is still dealing with it has more authority on the subject than somebody who has lived a charmed and happy existence.

    Don't beat yourself up... I also know what I have to do to change my life, but I'm not sure if I can emotionally handle it either. Your choice isn't a dumb one... sure, it may be unhealthy. Sure, you might regret it. But you might regret making the opposite choice also. Life is a crapshoot. You make the decision that seems like the best one at the time and hope everything works out. And a lot of times, those choices don't work out. But that doesn't automatically mean that it was a dumb choice, because there was no guarantee of success making the opposite choice either.

    Maybe 2 drug addicts can't be together. But you're going to have a difficult time being with an addict regardless of whether you use or not. I'm speaking as someone who has been an addict, a recovering addict, and then a relapsed addict again. Though I do think that love might be enough to pull me out of that viscious cycle. I'd like to hope so, anyway. And I hope that your love for him is enough to pull him together some day. Just know that it's not going to be easy, no matter what choice you make.

    Ah well, that's life for you, I guess.

    I didn't mean to criticize you or to suggest that you should use or break up with your fiancée or anything like that. I would never encourage anyone to become a drug addict / alcoholic unless their only other option was suicide, nor would I suggest that you leave somebody that you love unless they were abusing you. But it's good that you've realized that you are codependent... that is a bit of addiction of its own. I do wish you and your fiancée the best of luck, and I hope you feel better soon.
  12. AsphyxiateOnWords

    AsphyxiateOnWords Eρεβος/Νύξ

    I need to vent again on my patheticness. I told my fiancée to sign up for welfare medical insurance a long time ago since he wasn't working. He chose not to. Then his dad's girlfriend tells him to do it and he brags about how awesome she is for that idea. Seriously? Yet again, I feel like for some reason me and my ideas and thoughts are simply not good enough.
  13. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Well-Known Member

    You're not pathetic. I've been in that situation before, where I'm giving someone advice but they choose not to take it until they get that same advice from someone else. I guess they don't view me as a reliable source of advice. It's not your fault that he doesn't appreciate it when you try to help. Relationships can sometimes make even the simplest communications complicated. Maybe at the time, he saw it as nagging, or maybe he simply didn't want to do it because it was your suggestion and he wants to feel like the dominant one in the relationship. Who knows? People are strange sometimes.
  14. AsphyxiateOnWords

    AsphyxiateOnWords Eρεβος/Νύξ

    Yeah, dude. I agree with you that I wouldn't be here if things couldn't get better either. So I guess I subconsciously knew the whole time, because I stuck around even though it got pretty close at times.

    The morality thing, of course I think those things are bad. That's the majority opinion, but the point is that it's still subjective and there's no saying if it's universally right or wrong. Most people just think those things are wrong because they're hurtful. But there are people out there who think otherwise. It wouldn't be healthy to think those things were good in our society, no. But every society picks its own rules and morals both formal and informal. If we lived in another society, some of those things might actually be considered healthy believe it or not!

    I know you weren't trying to get me to use, I didn't think you were, I was just commenting on that from my experience. Love is NEVER enough for an addict to stop using, otherwise I would have gotten mine to stop because I love him to death, probably literally. I've never heard an addict say they got clean for that reason unfortunately, though I wish it were true. They get clean when the pain of using becomes greater than the pain of seeking help. That's it, unfortunately. I've tried everything to get my addict to stop and it wasn't possible. I learned that I was powerless and he would only stop when he wanted to or needed to. The only thing I could do that would help was stop standing in his way and enabling his drug use by giving him a place to stay for free and keep acting that way toward me with no consequences whatsoever.

    I do also think you're right that regardless of what decision I ever make, I don't know how it's going to turn out. I have problems with trying to predict the future and being a mind reader when I obviously can't do either one.

    Also about the insurance, someone from my program suggested that maybe it was because he's thinking clearer now that he's clean. I guess that could be it, but can't seem to get it out of my head that I don't matter.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2012
  15. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Well-Known Member

    Lol, well yeah, I suppose in some societies, child abuse is discipline, spousal abuse is "maintaining order", bullying is just a rite of initiation, death is just a gateway to the next life, etc.; but in my opinion, anything that causes needless pain is bad. I mean, unless you're into pain... oh never mind, lol. Yes, everything is subjective, but my own feelings take precedence here. If I consider something to be bad, then I don't really care if somebody else disagrees... it's bad to me. What does their opinion have to do with how I feel? I don't even care about my own society's rules. There are things that my society considers to be bad that I think are good, and vice versa. Am I choosing my opinions? Absolutely. I choose to feel this way, and I'm not about to change my mind just because somebody else thinks I should or for the sake of pretending like I'm happy. If I'm not happy, then I'm not happy. I'm not going to sit here and try to convince myself that I'm happy. It doesn't matter if my feelings are irrational. They're my feelings. I have the right to be irrational about my own life.

    I quit smoking pot when I moved in with my wife, because I thought I loved her. Turns out I didn't love her, but I did love smoking pot. Maybe it was just the weed talking. Still, it was just a psychological addiction, and it wasn't that hard to get over. I haven't touched the stuff since. I did start drinking again a couple of years ago, because I was becoming increasingly frustrated with my situation. Alcohol is something I've given up before, and I know that I could give it up again if I wanted to. I know that sounds like a typical addict's response, but it's true... I went over a decade hardly ever touching a drink - hell, I even spent many a New Year's Eve completely sober... not because I was afraid to drink, but because I simply didn't want to. The fact that I started drinking again is proof that I've reached the end of my rope. Alcohol is something I turn to as a last resort, as an alternative to suicide. Some addicts use because they're in love with their drug of choice, and in their case, you're right - love is not enough to get them to quit. But in my case, I'm drinking out of desperation. I'm an alcoholic, but I'm not. Hell, I don't even like alcohol. But right now, I like reality even less. Love - if I had true love - that would be enough to break the spell for me. And I mean true love... I don't just mean having someone who loves me, or someone that I'm in love with... it has to go both ways. I've been loved and not loved back, and I've loved and had it not returned... unrequited love will never satisfy me, it will only serve to frustrate me further. What I need is mutual love, affection, passion, lust, compassion, companionship, someone I enjoy spending time with and who enjoys spending time with me... I need someone who completes me, someone who will be there for me through thick and thin, and not just anyone, but someone who I feel the same connection and devotion to as well. That would absolutely be enough to cure my addiction. I drink out of boredom; with true love by my side, I would never be bored. I drink out of sadness; with true love by my side, I would never be sad. I drink to forget; with true love by my side, I would want to remember every single moment.

    Maybe I'm just being unrealistic and overly optimistic. But that goes back to my previous point... I don't care if I'm being irrational. It's what I want, dammit, and I won't be happy until I have it. If I say I want a leprechaun that shits gold bricks, by golly, somebody had better find me an Irish dwarf whose diet consists of expensive jewelry, and I'm going to sit here and bitch about it until they do.

    Nobody is a mind reader. Every time I think I know how things are going to turn out, I'm proven wrong. I do occasionally have instances of Déjà vu, but that's one of those "hindsight is 20/20" sort of deals. I can look back on my life now and think, "gee, why didn't I see that coming?", but that does not me a psychic make.

    The person in your program has a good point. I have a lot of addicts in my family, and I know I've told them things when they were under the influence that they responded negatively to, and then forgot them later... when I bring it up again with them when they're sober, they have a completely different reaction... so yeah, a lot of different factors could be behind that. I know it's easy to focus on something like that and to take it personally, but you probably shouldn't take a single instance personally. If it starts to become a pattern, then that's something you might want to talk to him about.
  16. AsphyxiateOnWords

    AsphyxiateOnWords Eρεβος/Νύξ

    I agree, I would never change my opinions of right and wrong either because of someone else. Only time I ever have was when I met my fiance. I was totally against dating someone who did drugs and he was clean at the time except for suboxone, and I knew so little about addiction at the time that I thought that meant he would always stay clean. By the time I did realize it and it got bad, I was already with him for a year and severely attached. But I was just making a point on the morality thing (being a psychology major lol). Nevertheless, I agree with everything you've said about it.

    You know what, and this is just my opinion, but you don't seem like "an addict" to me based on what you've said. I, too, did drugs because of my emotions. And I, too, really could stop if I wanted to and have. People like that often get misjudged as addicts, but actual addicts are way different than that. They really can't stop on their own, they can't control the impulse to use, and neither love nor anything else would make a difference. Since you say it would for you, I would say that substance abuse is really more of a symptom for you than an addiction. But again, that's just my opinion.

    I know what you mean about wanting what you want and not settling for anything else. I agree with you on that too.
  17. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Well-Known Member

    I took a few psychology classes of my own... as well as sociology and anthropology classes... yeah, I get it, morality is subjective. I'm well aware of that. My own moral compass looks nothing like those presented by religion and society. Things that some consider "taboo" are not to me. I've changed my own morality quite a bit over the years... hah, at one time in my life, I thought addicts and alcoholics were hopeless losers. I didn't understand that many of them were turning to drugs and alcohol to ease their pain. The only reason I allowed myself to touch such substances that I had formerly considered to be "forbidden" was because I was at the brink of taking my own life. That, and the fact that most of my peers had rejected me... the only social group that seemed willing to accept a recluse like me was the group of dropouts and druggies. It turns out that most addicts aren't really losers at all, they're just very sensitive people who have dealt with a lot of pain in their lives and turn to drugs and alcohol to mask that pain. The real losers are the ones who go on with their happy lives and treat depressed people with utter disdain. That's the moral equivalent to a wealthy socialite spitting on a homeless person. It's so easy to look down on the rest of the world when you're sitting pretty in an ivory tower... but bring one of those people down to our level and see what happens. It's amazing how quickly your world view changes when you're forced to look at the world from a gutter.

    Well, I do have an addictive personality, that I won't deny. But I'm really more of a self medicator. I'm an alcoholic who thinks that alcohol is stupid. It kills brain cells, it harms the heart, the liver, and increases your chances of getting cancer... plus all it does is either make you feel numb, dumb, or more depressed. But right now, those feelings are all preferable to me over my own reality. I don't want to deal with myself, my reality, and my own sober thoughts. I just want to escape, in any way possible. Whether that be sleep, or drugs, or alcohol, or some other obsession, or even death. I'm just tired of this, whatever 'this' is. I want it to go away. I don't want to die yet, because death can't be undone. There are so many things I wanted out of life. It just hurts knowing that I may never get to experience any of them, and alcohol helps kill the pain.