Collective Inteligance, and Social Structure

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by just.me, Jul 21, 2009.

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  1. just.me

    just.me Account Closed

    Hello
    I open this topic to talk about something that is on my mind for years now.
    Our body is made out of billions of cells
    every cell have a purpose, a job to do, and while it cant really say
    "yes" or "no" or to pick what this cell should do or whatever, instead
    those cells are sort of designed, almost like coded to do things.
    Neurons, the cells in our brain, just like some other cells around out body
    have the ability to control other cells, which means that there is a simple
    social structure, with simple cells that just do as ordered, and all they way
    up to the controlling cells such as neurons (our brain cells).
    Now thing is that none of out cells can survive on its own...
    Muscle cells need oxygen and "food", which is supplied by the red blood cells,
    while the white blood cells are there to protect us.
    The amazing part of it that if for example a muscle cell is been attacked
    it sends a message to the brain, which then orders the white blood cells to rush
    to the attacked cell and to eliminate any threats in there.
    And even more amazing part of it is that pretty much any cell in our body
    will sacrifice itself for a neuron cell, sometimes by will, sometimes by order,
    so when out body goes threw things like extreme cold, out brain shuts down
    the blood flow to our fingers, then limbs, and eventually it will shut down
    everything except the vital organs (heart, liver, etc..)

    Now obviously our body is one huge collective social structure
    and our brain is a collective intelligence
    so while 1 neuron is pretty much worthless, millions of them give us
    the intelligence level we have as humans.
    Which leads to the question, are we really free in our choice?
    For example food, we eat when we are hungry, but here is the catch...
    We know we rare hungry only because the food processing cells running
    low on resources, so they send a message for resupply to the brain,
    the brain then give "us" the feeling like we are hungry and sort of forces
    us to look for food, and if that is not enough apparently it also chooses what
    sort of food it requires, and that is why we eat many different types of food
    some of which we like, and others we don't like so we avoid it

    so if some cells in our body want to throw up a party and order a pizza
    we will receive this strong need for pizza and will order it.
    while if our reproduction organs are bored and want to do something
    they send a message to our brain, requiesting a job, and that is when
    we feel the strong need for sex (for example).

    So are we really who we think we are?
    Our body is a huge social system, and while 1 cell by itself is weak and without
    protection, and cant even take care of itself, as collective it is part of something
    of great importance, like a cell of the heart
    and for its job it will get whatever it needs, oxygen, food, protection, ideal life conditions..

    So who we really are?
    I think we are like a country, our brain is the government, but not a democratic sort of government
    more like dictatorship, there are workers with ranks of importance, some live in good conditions, with long and healthy life, others have short life and are
    of low importance, just like in real life.
    there are factory's that are producing things others need (like salts and calcium)
    there is a developed delivery system with the red blood cells
    and there is an army to protect everyone, in the form of white blood cells.
    this "government" also got good diplomatic skills, by using language, sight, and so on
    it can communicate with other form of governments, some of them
    will support it, other will provide it with information about threats.

    And our feeling of freedom is just an illusion =)
    So what do you think?
     
  2. bhawk

    bhawk Well-Known Member

    due to lack of time i cant give the answer id like to give but i will definately give you a 10/10 for a bloody good interesting thread!
     
  3. Mikeintx

    Mikeintx Well-Known Member

    While our bodies may tell us its time to eat, we still choose whether or not we are going to eat do we not? For this reason people are able to go on a diet, or even starve themselves if their will is strong enough. Interesting post though.
     
  4. ashes_away

    ashes_away Well-Known Member

    this is an awesome post! I can't give a long response either but I know one thing..I WISH that freedom was more an illusion..that I had LESS free will.I want to have my life be as automatic in some ways as are the functions of my parts!Not that I want to be a robot but I sure would appreciate being more effortlessly functional as my kidneys,heart,cells etc are..:blink:
    then again obviously my neuro-pathways are not so functional.:biggrin:
     
  5. Ziggy

    Ziggy Antiquitie's Friend

    If the brain is like a government then at the heart of it, is a mad dictator, who wants to do things... now! Let's bomb a country, let's dress all monkeys up in tuxedos... but luckily he's surrounded by a team of advisors who try to reason with him.

    So at the core of our brain, we're having commands issued, "I'm hungry, let's eat", "I'm scared, let's run" but the front part of our brain advises it... "But I'm going out for a meal later on", or "there's nothing to be scared of".

    A lot of our sense of freedom depends on the ability of these advisors. I knew someone who as soon as they had an idea they just did it, they weren't sure why, the advisors just weren't being listened to. Whereas my advisors just want to stop me from doing anything.
     
  6. just.me

    just.me Account Closed

    Well we all know that our brain is ,made out of "departments"
    each such department is in charge of something
    from the department of defense (immunity system), to the tactical department
    that coordinates actions, so during a time of danger, the tactical department
    sends request to places like sensors (eyes or hearing) and the storage departments (memory), then it combines the intel and sends some options
    to the necessary departments, that are taking actions by sending orders to some
    of our organs, sort of:
    release adrenaline, raise heart beat rate, focus oxygen supply to the muscles and so on..

    while about options...
    if we are hungry, sure we don't have to eat, that is due to a coordination
    system that will examine things like fat levels, energy levels and so on
    and will react as needed
    eventually it will gain full control, for example the need for water
    if we will not drink, we eventually will loose consciousness
    now why does it happen? our body shuts off our consciousness to take over
    it then enters a state of preservation where it protects the vital organs
    while knowing and waiting for a support from the outer world
    remember, we are social beings, and we know that if something happening
    we will probably get help even if we are unconscious
    and if we know it, the different departments in our brain know it too...
    so you will get water, like it or not :)
    but then again, its a risk as it can be possible that no one will help
    our body is designed for that too, as eventually we will gain consciousness again
    but now we will have such a strong desire for water that we will drink anything
    including sea water..

    its not that easy to fight ourselves...
    because then we would of see people committing suicide by not drinking water...
     
  7. just.me

    just.me Account Closed

    maybe you have a war raging in your head?
    haha.. rebellious neurons fighting a gorilla war, sounds awesome =)
    so your brain uses a suppression tactic that manipulating the chemical balance
    in your head which results in depression? =)
    sort of, you just sit at your room, doing nothing, while we are at war
    as we dont have the time to take care of the normal daily needs of a healthy person...
     
  8. Ziggy

    Ziggy Antiquitie's Friend

    such as
    I'm trying to think of something clever and witty to say here... so erm... well erm... hey, what a load of bollocks!

    The amygdala is involved in memory, the hippocampus is involved in memory, the prefrontal cortex is involved in memory, but none of these could be considered to be memory departments. So what are these areas of the brain 'in charge of'?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2009
  9. ashes_away

    ashes_away Well-Known Member

    maybe you just missed the overall point that our bodies and brain work together in systems..efficiently usually and somehow without us having to tell the systems what to do..You are over thinking.And also,i think it was meant to be slightly cheeky.I ,for instance,quipped that part of my system is malfunctioning and your sense of humor seems to be too.:biggrin:
     
  10. just.me

    just.me Account Closed

    lol Ziggy you lacking humor and imagination... :)
     
  11. Ziggy

    Ziggy Antiquitie's Friend

    Yes, you're right. But what's important? My life's not important, but the way people view the world and understand themselves is. You start a post saying "Well we all know..." but do we? Does it matter? I'm probably over-thinking and being too serious, but that's not what important. Real knowledge is important, so I'd be interested in your opinions on the subject being discussed, 'cos I think you've got a lot of interesting things to say.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2009
  12. Zurkhardo

    Zurkhardo Well-Known Member

    We are the sum of individual elements that in their constituent parts are meaningless but find purpose only when equating something, that being us. Our organs, our tissue, our chemical and nervous systems cannot defined separately but only when taken as part of a whole. Thus I don't believe we're lacking free will because none of these elements really control us, they just work together to allow for survival of the whole.

    Not sure how convoluted that might have come out XD
     
  13. just.me

    just.me Account Closed

    well without testosterone, you would of never wanted to have sex
    which means that you have no free will on that one
    if your body needs sex, it just fills your brain with hormones, not your choice..
    Same thing with other things, like the need to socialize...
    how can you explain it? why arnt we all loners?
    why cant we choose to be loners and be happy with it?
    sure some people are loners but its like by nature not because they choose to
     
  14. triggs

    triggs Account Closed

    learning stuff - explain that?
     
  15. just.me

    just.me Account Closed

    what you mean "learning stuff"?
    all which we learn during our life time is then used to make
    our life better, or just effect our life at least somehow.
    Now one may say, "Mathematics didnt effected my life in any way"
    but the truth is:
    you went to school because your parents told you to or because this is what everyone do..
    when you grow up you understood that school will insure you a good quality of life
    therefore you tried to finish it - to raise the quality of your life

    question is why do we need high quality of life?
    think about it, good stable income will raise the chances on finding a high quality mate
    with good genes, it will also insure a good childhood to your children
    and the fact you want this to begin with is just due to hormones that are pushing you towards reproduction

    or lets say you take a course on self defense
    why? to insure your own safety obviously, but what for?
    the only thing one should survive for is only so that he will contribute to the overall
    humanity, and one can contribute only by a very few things:
    1. to reproduce
    2. to help others with surviving
    3. to raise your own or someone ales life quality

    or lets say you take a painting course
    why?
    1. because you enjoy painting (your brain release joy hormones during painting)
    so its not your choice to enjoy painting, its your brains choice

    so as you can see
    we are far from having a free will
     
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