confessions of a benefit scrounger

Discussion in 'Opinions, Beliefs, & Points of View' started by Xaos, Jul 3, 2015.

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  1. Xaos

    Xaos Well-Known Member

    though i have worked and contributed to the system in the past, my work history is somewhat patchy, and i spent many years not working OR receiving benefits from the state, but a few years back i got carted off to the nuthouse for schizophrenia, not by choice, then they asked for my bank details and put me on disability benefits and meds... considering how long i've been out of work, i would guess i'm coming close to taking out more than i have put in...

    what should be done with people like me? let the fuhrer out...
  2. justMe7

    justMe7 Well-Known Member

    Die peasant geeze. Obviously because you've had challenges and used the support systems designed for those challenges you are a sub human. Begone with you! Your opinions and views are sub compared to hard working individuals. Infact it is quite alright to trivialize your life and the situations you have and are dealing with. Its even more appriopriate to lump you into political talking points for leverage. Berating you one day and then defending you the next. Infact we know you more than you know yourself.

    Get a job ffs, without people on benefits the world would be super duper perrrrfect.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 3, 2015
  3. Xaos

    Xaos Well-Known Member

    haha :p
  4. justMe7

    justMe7 Well-Known Member

    :) You do bring up a good point though...
  5. Petal

    Petal SF dreamer Staff Member Safety & Support SF Supporter

    I have been on disability since 2010. Worked from 2004-2010 just cleaning(Family business, I didn't heave to leave the house as it was next door) but I earned money and paid stamps and into the system. I feel bad for claiming this for so long BUT I do have an illness where I cannot leave the house as I please anytime I want. I do not pay for my meds but a 25 euro levy a month. It makes me feel like a sub human but I cannot help being sick so I am 5 years later still claiming. I have never been reviewed. I am going to college in september and will be receiving the same amount of money (188) on back to education allowance. So I get where you are coming from, I feel like a burden on society. I was entitled to disability from 2005 when I was 16 but didn't apply as I could work.
  6. Xaos

    Xaos Well-Known Member

    i don't like feeling like a burden either, i know the value of money, and i don't take it for granted, i started college last year aswell, i want to improve my job prospects, which will hopefully help with my mental well being somewhat, and eventually get me paying back into the system again, so long as things go smoothly, but i can only try...
  7. justMe7

    justMe7 Well-Known Member

    Isn't this sorta the problem though. There's this mentality that people who are on the benefit system are all abusing it. I don't have figures, but I bet this is a small portion compared to the people who legitimately need to use the system. This small pocket of people is being targeted by the government, and the general masses are then becoming hostile towards people on benefits.

    I mean I doubt anyone wants to be on the benefits system. Most people want to be incontrol of their lives and earning their own way. Which is the point of the system. To help people achieve that. It doesn't help when you feel like a burden on your own, then see the bullshit that flies around in the media or from random peoples mouths. It's like saying "Hey, we can help you", then bitch slapping the person who genuinely accepts your help.

    People just want to hate in my opinion. It gives them focus. Who can we blame, so we can focus there and make out we're 'solving' the problems of the country. Maybe if you didn't allow young people to be hindered, and hurt their own inspiration and belief in their own potential, maybe there would be less people on benefits. Oh wait... that's not really the problem alone is it. How about poor education in certain areas. Lack of programs, parents who have grown up in hard hard conditions ... ect..

    I really do not see how "we" can work together if we are constantly picking at eachother. Alot of people feel like shit because of their own lives or personal issues. Compounding that because now society wants to label and judge you is not going to help one bit. This isn't motivation in the slightest. You don't help people by attempting(and forever failing) to degrade them.

    Anyhow.. btw my original comment was a snark joke ob. I hate to see you guys feeling some of the things you've said :( That aint fair, and tbh it's not true.
  8. Freya

    Freya Loves SF Staff Member ADMIN SF Author

    I understand why people on benefits might feel like the whole world thinks that they scroungers and should get a job and blah blah but speaking as a working person that loses £8k a year to government deductions I can honestly say that I do not begrudge a penny to the people who need it. The people who are sick and in pain and can't function... that is horrible. If I could fix everyone I would do that in a heart beat because nobody should have to feel like a worthless burden. Benefits SHOULD be there to take care of the sick and the elderly and the people who can't provide for themselves.

    Key word: 'can't'.

    The issue I have is that the welfare "pot" is limited and there isn't enough to go to the people who need it, to allow them to live a life that isn't awful, because there are so many people who don't need it claiming it. The people who don't have a job for no other reason that they don't like work, or don't see why they should have to stay off drugs long enough to pass a drug test, or any number of other reasons. Or the people who pop out another kid because it doubles their benefits and means nobody hassles them to get a job. That pisses me off because it is theft.

    And yes I do say theft. And I don't mean theft from the hard working tax payers blah blah - I mean theft from the people who need it. I have heard SO MANY people here say "I don't see the point of work" and "I don't have a job because I hate being a wage slave" - those reasons to stay on welfare - THAT is theft as far as I am concerned and it is stealing from the sick and the weak and the needy - from the people who NEED to be on welfare.

    And it is not just stealing the money they need. It is stealing their self respect as they get tarred with the same 'welfare' brush and end up feeling like crap, and it is stealing their hope for the future by way of the programs that should be available to help them become more independent and get better but aren't because there isn't enough budget, and it is stealing the basic human compassion that society should be showing to the sick and weak and vulnerable because it is hard for the working tax payer not to be angry about the money they know is going, at least in part, to the wrong people.

    What should be "done" about the sick and needy is that they should be supported to build as good and productive a life as they are capable of leading and it should be accepted with compassion that for some people that is nothing LIKE the life they want to lead and that, on top of being sick and in pain, is an awful thing.

    What should be "done" about the people who don't want to participate in a society where the able support and care for the disabled is they should be cut off. If you can work and choose not to because you don't like it - then that should be your choice - but you should not be entitled to the same supports and benefits as the people who can't. By choosing to say "why should I work when I don't like it" you are choosing to opt out of the system where the able contribute a portion of what they earn/make/build to those who are not able. And that should be your choice - but you shouldn't get to choose just the parts of society that benefit you - say 'fuck the system' then expect it to provide for you.

    Just my opinion :)
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 4, 2015
  9. justMe7

    justMe7 Well-Known Member

    I figure it's down to motivation and actual ability for most people. Besides that, the rest need the system.

    Society has limited drive coupled with lies and illusion... atleast I think alot of people feel this way. People don't want to be slaves, in one fashion or another. It's the same in the the countries I've visited. Benefits or not, there is a huge portion of people who do not 'care'. Alot of people don't want to commit to lies.

    Cut them off... oh please cut them off. Wake up your generation..... it could be violent though...

    Or maybe, realize your countries fail to motivate a great deal of people. And inadvertently, through poor teaching and practices, a portion of populous feels it's ok to use benefits. It's a sorta warped mentality imo. Understandable, but truly unhealthy for everyone
  10. Sumerian

    Sumerian Active Member

    Contributing to society is not all about working and paying taxes. As long as you're a kind and helpful human being you're always contributing, in one way or another.

    I know plenty of people that wouldn't be considered "part of the system" (homeless, people on benefit, beggars, drug addicts) that have helped and stood up for the community a hell lot more than the average tax payer.
  11. JmpMster

    JmpMster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    Contributing as a human is about everything one does , contributing to society is about all actions one takes, but i am unsure of the method used to determine what makes somebody fully capable of working and choosing not to entitle to free support form others in society. I am equally unsure what one does to help and stand up more for community than average taxpayer that is not enormously enabled by lack of other personal responsibilities like full time work that take up a lot of time and energy. Being a particularly nice person is a civic responsibility/function of all not a job worthy of entitlement some.

    This entire discussion is based on a lot of assumptions. I have no issue whatsoever cashing my disability check and never will. I also had no issue with working for 25 years prior to getting them. Nobody should feel bad about getting warranted benefits. That said I know at least as many people that intentionally play the system and take advantage as those that truly deserve. When the neighbor a mile from here have home daycare and 6 kids she watches for $200 week while claiming unemployment and food stamps - so has $1200/ week cash no taxed income - and stil collects $2000 a month in benefits I have an issue with that. And so should EVERY person that is trying to scrape by on the too little they are getting in benefits because the many many many people like her.

    I am glad there are limits to how long people can claim unemployment benefits here unlike JSA in UK as an example. Why should my taxes (and yes, my wife still pays taxes and so do I ) go in any way to somebody choosing not to work. All three of my daughters have never been without a job since turning 16, my youngest daughter is 16 and just graduated HS with no experience in anything but has had no problem getting jobs (even when was stupid and messed up first 2 jobs simply applies and gets new. Nearly every store/ shop has help wanted sign and yet people claim unemployment for a year with attitude "why work? I got a free check every week now". I really like the "it is nobodies business but mine" crap. Every tax dollar they get because of personal choice that means roads are not better, schools are not better, somebody else that needs the benefits get less, - all of those effect everybody. That MAKES it my business and everybody else in the societies business.

    I see the people on disability and know them. On disability for back that play golf 5 days a week , or run their own "under the table" business to make decent cash incomes that they pay no taxes on. Even the ones that simply work in cash businesses and while getting no benefits cheat the tax system- they are all MY business. I do not believe it is a small percentage at all- I personally based on my observations and people I know that are on benefits here think it is a very substantial number of people. I equally dismiss the "everybody does it" attitude. N, everybody doe snot do it. Many of us do not, many of us if we make money claim it and pay taxes on it. That is not because we are stupid or naive- it is because we believe in doing the right thing - and believe the right thing is far more than being kind or a "nice person" and calling that participating in society.

    To be very blunt and honest I really question why anybody is offended by people saying they want fewer people cheating and defrauding the system. If they are disabled and warrant the assistance it is them that are being screwed first and most by getting substantially less than they should be due to the cheats. I understand there are some that have never been able to work, which is fine and is nothing wrong with that- but until they have seen 1/3rd of the money the worked very hard for all month disappear into the nether called taxes they do not know what it is like to give up hours a day with loved ones, miss things they really wanted to do because of work, being too tired to go out because worked 16 hour double shift, and then have huge chunk of there check disappear to be distributed to people that do nothing all day and have far more disposable income after bills (because those people are getting housing and food stamps and free medical so have no bills) as well as all the free time born of not working and having no obligations to work.

    Just like any that have never been disabled/incapacitated do not understand the challenges of those that truly are, those that have never worked 40-70 hours a week and seen 1/3rd or more of their income taken away for that work do not have a clue what it is like to work and have that money taken. They beleive somebody making $50k a year must be rich because they have not had 13k disappear to taxes and then paid and real estate tax, had to pay all own groceries, gotten no child care assistance to work, pay own insurance medical , etc etc and in the end the average person on benefits and housing has more disposable income than a working family of 4 making $50k / year -- and not only more disposable income- they also get that 40-60 hours a week the working family spent working and commuting, and are not too exhausted from that work to do anything else.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 5, 2015
  12. Event_Horizon

    Event_Horizon SF Supporter

    Make no mistake the current system is deeply unfair and biased. If you need help with a variety of social security issues. I recommend this website as it has useful guides and advice on how to navigate this minefield of absurdity.

    The scrounger rhetoric is simply damaging. That is demonstrated here by those referring to themselves as burdens, even I have felt that way at times. The problem is idiotic generalisations that less than subtly imply, that because I know one person is doing it, or I sat and watched Benefit street the the rate of fraud must be huge, every one is on the fiddle! The facts don't bare this out. Only the rabid absurdity of the distorted media with its nonsense click bait and thirst for ratings keep furthering this very damaging rhetoric. Most I argue with over social security barely understand how the system even works in the first place or the laws surrounding it. Or that it is just a fact that all systems are prone to fraud and opportunism, you will never wipe it out. I find the clarion call of the hard done by frothing tax payer to be utterly laughable. Mainly because of what else the tax payer funds and would likely be very against. Yet that does not get daily news coverage or several exploitative TV shows.

    The law makes no distinction between the lifestyles of the deserving and undeserving because it can't. It does not care if you have eaten ten thousand twinkies and are dying of diabetes because of your own choices. It does not care if you have worked forty years only to be hit by a lorry and had your spine shattered in fifteen places. The whole system is reliant either on national insurance contributions or meeting the standards of evidence or you simply meet the criteria, in or out of work. It does not even care about your attitude to work, because you cannot police attitude in any meaningful or consistent way. You also can't shame the opportunistic or lazy into working just as you can't shame the disabled into being cured. The vast majority of studies I have read on negative reinforcement show no positive outcome.

    What is fact is there is a hardening attitude to claimants which has a very real price in general.

    Myths Debunked.

    The figures on benefit Fraud.

    A video pulling apart the myths.

    Further myth busting.

    A detailed and rather lengthy breakdown of stigma in Britain.
  13. shadowonthewall

    shadowonthewall Well-Known Member

    The problem with limits to unemployment is that there are periods of high unemployment and periods of low unemployment. There is always some extent of unemployment, because that is the way that the economy functions, but it is often possible during the times of low unemployment for anyone to find a job flipping burgers or working the cash register. Add to this the fact that employers are known to favour those who are currently in employment when filling their vacancies and the odds are often stacked against those who are unemployed and can result in years of fruitless search to get into even a menial job as a store clerk. I was told at one of the compulsory seminars that I attended during the worst of the recession that there was over 70 applications for every entry level job that was listed in my home city. The great recession of the 1930s didn't just happen because a lot of Okies decided that they couldn't be bothered getting out of bed before noon. And the most vulnerable people in society did not cause the recent banking collapse, it was the rich bankers who got us all into that situation. I don't see how it can ever be humane to cut off someone's only source of income and means of subsistence when they are facing insurmountable mathematical odds against getting back into employment during the term of their benefits. I'm full time employed now (low paying job, though) and have been for some time, but if I had been living in the US and didn't have family to support me, I could be destitute and out on the streets by now even if I'd made a full time job of looking for jobs.
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