Could/Can more be done to prevent suicide

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by PandorasToybox, Oct 7, 2010.

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Do you think more could be done to prevent suicide?

Poll closed Nov 6, 2010.
  1. Yes

    26 vote(s)
    81.3%
  2. No

    6 vote(s)
    18.8%
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  1. PandorasToybox

    PandorasToybox Well-Known Member

    I'm sure by now most members have heard about the recent suicides in the media. It breaks my heart & angers me because I hate that somebody has to lose their life before anything is done about the issue. I dont know if its just me but does anyone else feel like not enough is being done to prevent suicide?
    Whether it be not providing the right resources to everybody, bullying, abuse, discremination, funding, & everything else you can think of.
    Here in Canada we don't even have a suicide prevention strategy & it just doesnt make sense to me. I'm not sure which other countries do or dont have strategies, but I can tell you having one doesnt help the situation.
    Even simply acknowleding that suicide exists seems to be lost on society.
    I'm baffled & frustrated & I dont know if its just me that believes that more could & should have already been done.
    Also it seems that there are more youth prevention programs than adult prevention programs.
     
  2. total eclipse

    total eclipse SF Friend Staff Alumni

    I think people don't want to hear about deal with it acknowledge it all I think they are still turning their backs and walking away on it or making light of someones attempts. so yes more needs to be done to make people accountable for turning pt away when they ask for help for making them feel less then impt when they get the guts to acknowledge they need help I think anyone that goes to hospital asking for assistance should get it and not turned away. Who are they to know what is on the mind of that person. sorry my rant tired of neglect people are getting.
     
  3. PandorasToybox

    PandorasToybox Well-Known Member

    I agree Violet; when they do talk about suicide, they say to go ask for help...but lots of times when people ask for help they are turned away.. I mean if our countries can spend billions on the olympics & those in the entertainment industry can make millions.. we should have more than enough money to put towards saving lives.
     
  4. PandorasToybox

    PandorasToybox Well-Known Member

    Also, I think we need to look at creating more outpatient programs. That might make it less intimidating & put more people at ease for asking for help. My number one fear was that I would be placed in Psychiatrict hospital, however I was ok with going to outpatient counselling or even creating more appealing & therapeutic programs that will encourage & heal people./
     
  5. total eclipse

    total eclipse SF Friend Staff Alumni

    Yes a program that institutes care and compassion that increases self esteem and one that does not judge I hate it when people are turned away because of their diagnosis all should be given the chance a treatment all not the ones that they chose. Equality in mental illness does not exist saying they are not appropriate bs they just don't want to take the worse off they want people that will make their programs look good. Everyone has a right to good treatment and no one should be turned away NO ONE. More social workers
    Have more psychologist that help the ones that cannot afford it just it seems even the community base programs are allowed to turn people away which is wrong terrible wrong each time a person is denied help or stated not appropriate this person self esteem pummits even more do the dam professionals not get that rejecting is the main cause on of them for suicdal behavior
     
  6. PandorasToybox

    PandorasToybox Well-Known Member

    I often wonder if they turn away those that they dont think will make a quick or impressive recovery, fearing it'll make people question their programs "success".. infact it does the opposite, because their programs arent doing what they are intended to do. Provide aid to those in the community that need it.
    Also, schools.. Im in college, I had other students egging me on to kill myself..I had to drop out of the program, lost out on 1.5years of schooling & tuition, lost out of a future (at the time) and those students got a slap on the wrist... Nobody from the college came to check on me to make sure I wasnt affected by what happened. Same thing happens to other kids bullied at school... not enough is done to reprimand those who bully others; its the victim of the bullying that end up losing their lives.
     
  7. nolonger

    nolonger Well-Known Member

    There's always more to do to prevent suicide. I think my country is 'trying' to do something but I don't usually check up on those kinds of things. Yesterday was the 'Are you ok?' day. As in you'd ask a friend or colleague or something if they were ok.

    Something is trying to be done by various organisations because where I am suicide is the leading cause of death in 15-35 year olds(or something, can't remember the age bracket fantastically).

    Like we have a higher chance of killing ourselves, than being killed? It might sound strange but it should always be the other way around. Like having an accident or something being the leading cause of death, not what our own hands can do to us.
     
  8. PandorasToybox

    PandorasToybox Well-Known Member

    LongRoad I get what you're saying, although a death is tragic regardless of how it occured, many accidents arent preventable (well we could make more precautions depending on what it is) but the fact that a suicide is someone making the choice to end it is heartbreaking. Nobody deserves to lose their life, they have a right to be happy & enjoy life. They also need to have the right to get help to make it better.
    Ive been pushing my college for the last 2 years to put a prevention campaign in place but they keep avoiding the situation...as usual...surprise, surprise.. yet we can pay our college president a $300,000 yearly salary.
     
  9. PandorasToybox

    PandorasToybox Well-Known Member

    In my opinion the first step in prevention is just talking about it. Many people seem to be scared to say the word suicide because of what it represents, but that alone has created sooo many problems. Yes, suicide does not represent a pretty image, but our society has made it it even worse.
     
  10. total eclipse

    total eclipse SF Friend Staff Alumni

    Your university or college should be dam ashamed of themselves every institution should have a program in place especially when these a kids just starting out on their own and the stresses of school of living of lonliness god this is the time to have a system in place to teach students how to help others in the depth of depression the signs of it and what help there is available to them. Money is always the issue they say i think it is they just can't be bothered to care stupid bureaucracy at play. The bullies should be made to take a program on how their behavior can kill someone and they should be the ones made to leave if they don't change. My daughter left college because she too was being made fun of being verbally harassed made to feel afraid she couldn't take it anymore she fell apart ended up trying to end your life yet she lost her years at college she never went back sorry i just can't believe these places of education can't be bothered to put in a program that could save lives
     
  11. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    What school do you go to? Perhaps you should talk to some journalist about it and make a big deal about it, so it perhaps might not happen to someone else.
     
  12. Lovecraft

    Lovecraft Well-Known Member

    What do you mean by that? My home highschool in this riding has a fully featured guidance department as well as various walk-in clinics that can handle mental health issues via redirection to some counseling organization or even to the in/outpatient care at the hospital nearby. Severe cases can even get sent off to the hospital in Whitby for about a year of in-patient care if they need it, and it's all on OHIP. Maybe it's just <insert your province here> or if you're also in Ontario I think it's just that you aren't looking hard enough - the advertising for these services isn't particularly abundant, you're mostly expected to have a GP that refers you to them.

    I think it's a far more reasonable expectation for any large school or university to have a guidance department that refers you to actual professionals. Putting down the money and time for an in-house counseling program detracts from the school's purpose.


    A large number of depressive cases aren't clear to anyone - even psychiatrists often rely on what the patient confides more than observational data. I was consistently suicidal for about 4 years before I told anyone, and when I did it was a surprise to them.

    Furthermore, as above, the money and time it'd take to give that education to students isn't worth the returns; most students wouldn't care enough to look around at others for symptoms and even if they did they'd miss the 'covert' ill people out there.

    Do you know what the school budget is? *Maybe* you could convince me that universities could do it, but any public school? Hell no. They hardly have enough money to get the textbooks each year.

    That plan wouldn't work for a few reasons; I've already harped on about the money so let's go to point 2: How do you know who the bully is? A lot of cases of bullying are unreported. What if you catch them and do put them in the program? Do you really think it'd stop? No, of course it wouldn't.


    There are already services out there for counseling or mental health care, ask your GP, a community centre or something similar for more information.

    Really it's a question of scale: How many people actually commit suicide? In any given year there's about a 0.0006% chance of a given person killing himself... in the country with the highest suicide rate in the world. (Belarus) In most countries it's a < 0.0003% chance. Canada and the US are about 0.00018%
     
  13. PandorasToybox

    PandorasToybox Well-Known Member

    I said MY college that I attend doesnt have the resources & no we dont get referals & YES I realize they should send students to professionals but the least they can do is insure a suicidal student isnt left unattended, which does happen here.
    As for identifying bullies, if you read my first post & you know that in most cases there are existing complaints (usually numerous ones) against the offending bully, then yes they can identified. Schools are approached by the student/victim or the parents of the victim & they rarely do anything.
    And even public schools should receive funding from the government.. if countries can fund major sports events then they can afford to help save lives. Its when we allow excuses & road blocks to get in the way that nothing gets done. There are NO excuses for not making progress.
     
  14. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    Dunno how you figure your numbers, but in Canada there are about 3700 suicides per year with a population of 33.3 million, meaning there's an annual rate of 0.011%. Further, this means that about 37000 people attempt suicide per year, and hundreds of thousands or even millions are in enough misery to think about it - all of them would benefit from suicide prevention programs.
     
  15. PandorasToybox

    PandorasToybox Well-Known Member

    I just read my last post.. if I sound a little b*tchy, my apologies, thats not to be directed at anyone here. Im just frustrated more w/ the fact they refuse to acknowledge or raise awareness on suicide. So again sorry
     
  16. PandorasToybox

    PandorasToybox Well-Known Member

    And that's about 3700 lives that could have been saved. No matter how small the %, thats still too high
     
  17. Lovecraft

    Lovecraft Well-Known Member

    3 700 / 33 300 000 = 1.111... e-4 according to my calculator. That is to say 0.0001111... which is lower than the other statistic I got by a good margin actually. Try your math again, you missed two zeros.

    37 000 attempts? I don't know where the number came from but seeing as most attempts fail I'll just go with it. There are 37 000 attempts in Canada per annum; that's 0.001% of the population that has a problem each year. According to Canadian statistics over 90% of attempted suicides have a diagnosable mental illness, so we're left with 0.0001% of the population that need suicide related help not already offered through the mental health system. (I've been through the in-patient and out-patient care of the Ontario mental health care system a few years now, I think I'm qualified to state suicide and the prevention thereof is taken into account there.)

    We also need to take into account the fact that (I just made the number up, but you know what I mean) half or more of the people left over aren't going to be swayed to go into any treatment - that guy that got divorced, lost the kids and the house and spent his last cent on a bottle of whiskey isn't in a receptive mood, no? Short of having the police read minds there's no cost-effective and non-rights violating way to find people that just won't go to treatment rather than attempt, so there it is: you can spend your money trying to help 0.00005% of the population or you can spend it trying to help the 1% with schizophrenia or the ever-rising number of people with diabetes.

    Suicide isn't a problem, it's a symptom. If you want to curb suicide rates go after the reason people would want to kill themselves. Even if you do manage to do that you have to accept suicide isn't going away. (Hell, in Japan there's still the odd case of sepukku, good luck stopping that.)

    Really I've never been successfully swayed into thinking suicide is *always* wrong. Ya, sure, the majority of the people out there that do attempt are just overlooking or unaware of something that could fix their life to the point of being worth living, but I think that if someone can rationally explain why they want to die they should have the right to do it the same way that, although a whole counseling session takes place first, I have the right to go have a sex-change operation.

    Personally I would prefer schools be equipped with a guidance department that can handle mental health crap but I can understand not having one given that GP's at your friendly neighborhood walk-in clinic can handle it.

    How do you know who a suicidal student is? Short of them announcing intentions or at least strong ideation of suicide than it's not fair to expect the busy people doing their work to identify anything but which student isn't doing well in class or whatever. Also, as I've said, I've managed, along with others I've met in hospital, to have extreme suicidal intent but with rather little effort conceal it completely.

    Meh, I'm thinking of the 'cyber-bullying' cases. Yes, there are schools where bullying does not get so much as a slap on the wrist. Yes, bullying like this existed in the 50's. (In fact it was worse.) Look around though, look at your parents or grandparents and the whole generation they belong to and realize that, although the majority of them were subject to bullying at one or more likely multiple points in their life, there they are. I'm all for doing what can be done easily to tone down bullying but really the idea it can be made to go away or that it should go away in its entirety is silly.

    Guess I got better schools, I was taken into the principal's office for calling a girl a bi*** jokingly once. Either way your school goes, even if it's not necessarily fair to make a kid do when they're still a kid, everyone will have to learn sooner or later that no knight in shining armour will fix their problems. Despite popular belief bullying is a plague of locusts eating children various child psychologists and certain studies commend bullying in general as a catalyst for growth; bullying resulting in suicide or whatever is statistic anomaly.

    They do, just not a lot.

    Countries can, but governments can't. Governments need to get re-elected and so they'd rather entertain the populace than cure cancer. People in countries don't care that the money could be used better. The root problem here is the people.

    To exterminate bullying would require 'progress' of the sort that finds a way to stop humans from being human. Humans have reptilian tendencies towards territoriality and aggression.
     
  18. PandorasToybox

    PandorasToybox Well-Known Member

    You're right we cant make suicide go away completely & I never said that was what I wanted to see happen, because it's not logical. However there are people that do go looking for help & dont receive it.
    School wise, yes I come from a city of 97,000 & most of them are in housing provided by the government so no we dont have the most top quality schools available. Our city is plagued with crime (again remembering the size... we are not a major city). We had 4 murders this month (we have never had that many murders in a year before), 3/4 of them were' committed by youth 14-15 years old & they all started out by the bullies, bullying the victims & going too far. Nobody stepped in & as a result that's what happens.. suicide & murder.
    What I want to see happen is for the people who want help to have access to the help. Even here, GP at walk-in clinics are fed up & will turn away people w/ MH problems. And if you're suicidal you get hospitalized for 1-3 days & that's it. No follow ups, no referals.
    But honestly, even if the smallest change occured, like our city bringing awareness to suicide & bullying, I would be happy. Im not looking to save the world, but I am going to approach this w/ a positive attitude & do whatever possible.
     
  19. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    You have issues with percents, it seems. If you attach a percent sign you have to multiply the proportion by 100. 0.1% of the population tries each year, that is, one in 1000 (typically about 10% of attempts succeed, that's where I got that from).
     
  20. total eclipse

    total eclipse SF Friend Staff Alumni

    It is not about percentages if one life could be saved then it was worth it. You are putting a number out there that is insignificant to someone that could be saved. What ever the cost every school system should have some support to recognise someone at risk and DO something about it. It is that someone who does see and hear the signs of suicidal behavior that will save maybe your son your daughter your cousin your sister your brother IT MATTERS so quit putting a price on it. IT can be done but it is not being done because they choose their luxuries over the students saftey.
     
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