Could this really be something that's true, and I'm having trouble seeing it?

Discussion in 'I Have a Question...' started by AsphyxiateOnMisery, Aug 25, 2014.

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  1. AsphyxiateOnMisery

    AsphyxiateOnMisery Well-Known Member

    I wrote about this in my diary but I really want an answer on this because I'm being told all of this every single day pretty much and now it's to the point where even I'm wondering whether it could be true or not. I have a number of different mental issues...depression, anxiety, Borderline and Avoidant Personality, and my husband has apparently come to the following conclusion about it all. This basically sums it up:

    He said the only way someone could really care about someone like me is if they hurt me. Cause if they're not hurting me, that just means they're lying and telling me what they think I want to hear to shut me up because my expectations are too big. And I gotta pick either one or the other, cause apparently it's impossible for me to have both someone who doesn't hurt me and genuinely means the things they say. I'm impossible not to hurt because I'm just a nutcase. Therefore, any time I do get hurt is my own fault. This includes any words or phrases I might find hurtful, as well as any time someone acts in a way I find offensive or hurtful. All of that is my fault because I misinterpret things and take them as being hurtful and get upset about things that I shouldn't...no, scratch that...don't have the right to be upset about. Just as well, all of my doubts and concerns about people possibly lying to me or hurting me are my own fault too, and when I speak of them aloud I shouldn't expect reassurance because it makes me a selfish asshole to do so, and said person feels interrogated. Also, when I try to keep those doubts and concerns buried inside, yet I cant handle how having to do that is making me feel, and I start to look upset, I'm a selfish asshole for that too because looking upset is also affecting said person.

    Could all of that really be true and I'm just too delusional to see it?
     
  2. meaningless-vessel

    meaningless-vessel Well-Known Member

    I'm not quite sure where your husband has got that from. There are people who can genuinely mean what they say, and also fit the expectation bill. However, they are few and far between, and if you set your expectations too high, then yes, there's a chance that things can go one way or the other.

    As for knowing when to say things out loud and when to keep them in - is this not an ideal situation to have a therapist to talk to? There you can get all of this out, and not deal with the weight of everything alone. But there are people who do care about you amidst their own struggles (on this site it's hard to find people who can be 100% caring 100% of the time when they have their own issues to go along with per se), and I can offer you the chance of PM'ing me if you want to talk anything through - I don't know everything but I can learn :)

    I would be more inclined to believe that other people around you are daring to suggest that you're the delusional one because you have the "labels" of mental issues. The reality is, they're unwilling to accept that they could be wrong and flipping the tables, they could be "delusional" or even just plain ignorant to the reality that you need more attentive, reassuring kindness. So rather than put extra effort in themselves, they give you a hard time for it, which then has a knock on effect of making you more anxious that what you're doing by being you isn't good enough. Yet you cannot be anyone but yourself, so it's doubly damaging.

    All i'd say is you should be yourself. Anyone who cannot accept you for who you are, is rarely likely to be genuine with care. If there's a hint of criticism that is constructive, then that's healthy too - everyone is encouraged to improve for the most part. (Taking an example, I knew someone who got in trouble with the law, spent a few months inside, came out, and has knuckled down, got themselves a job and given those around them an insight into what they are capable of in a good way - and ok, so they had a criminal blip, but their reaction has shown there are some people willing to understand breaking the law isn't taken lightly - they don't want to go back inside so they've turned their lives around).

    Be yourself. Don't give a damn whether the expectation bar is set to high or if you have issues with people in general. If others have issues with what you expect from them, then they are the ones who need to adjust not the other way around.

    (If i've waffled too much, let me know lol - but I'm not the best with words)

    G.
     
  3. NYJmpMaster

    NYJmpMaster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    No - it is wrong. People can love you without hurting you. However you will most certainly perceive harm or hurt when not is intended based on those Dx. That is when you, with your demonstrated knowledge in other posts of the effects of mental illness and understanding of how they work need to take a step back and make a determination based on facts rather than feelings if it is your perception that is causing the hurt or the person and situation. If you take a few moments to go through the actual known facts in different situations you are clearly rational enough to decide if the hurt is justified or if it is a symptom of a mental illness effecting your perception. I believe you have posted about DBT before- if not please look into it as it may help you in that process.
     
  4. Freya

    Freya Loves SF Staff Member ADMIN

    If I understand correctly, the crux of his argument is that if someone really loves you, they will be honest with you, and honest involves telling you things that will hurt and upset you. If someone doesn't love you, they will lie to you and tell you what they want to hear to keep you happy.

    Here's the thing - I am all for honesty don't get me wrong, but if person A loves person B, person A should, by anyone's definition of love, want person B to be happy. This means that person A needs to:

    • Not find much about person B to bitch about, because they love them and like them and enjoy being with them
    • Shut up about things they do find annoying or bothersome if those things are quirks and niggles and not deal breakers
    • Communicate like a compassionate and emotionally mature adult about the things that bother them to the extent that they cannot be ignored.

    If by nature of your DX which really are just another way of saying "this is what your personality is like" you are easily offended and upset and perceive criticism, lack of care and intent to harm where there are none, then that is something you need to work on. But it is also something HE needs to work on. Those personality traits might not be desirable and that is why they have been labelled as disorders, but the fact is they are actually just personality traits. And they are yours - they are part of you - and he supposedly loves you so he needs to work WITH you on ways of communicating that do not cause you pain, and on accepting that in life there are things everyone finds bothersome, annoying, irritating etc but it is not actually necessary to point them out. That isn't dishonesty, that is caring about someone else more than you care about yourself and valuing their feelings above your own irritation.

    I do not believe you will take my advice but I am going to give it anyway: think long and hard about what you actually want from a marriage - about what "good" looks like to you - put it against what you currently have and genuinely weigh up where you are. Hanging on to something for the sake of having it, when neither party is apparently very happy with the other or the situation, is damaging and is preventing yourselves and each other from finding something that actually works and makes you happy.
     
  5. AsphyxiateOnMisery

    AsphyxiateOnMisery Well-Known Member

    Freya -

    If I understand correctly, the crux of his argument is that if someone really loves you, they will be honest with you, and honest involves telling you things that will hurt and upset you. If someone doesn't love you, they will lie to you and tell you what they want to hear to keep you happy.


    Yes, that was technically the nature of his argument, but the way he said it was exactly the way I said it in my post. "It's impossible not to hurt you because you're a nutcase." So you see what I mean about it being extremely difficult to see his comments as trying to be honest and help me when it comes out the way it does? On one hand, I can understand his point about what he's trying to say with that, because my ex-fiance for instance always said things that made me feel loved and accepted the way I was, but they turned out to all be lies from what I found out. But I just wish he said it differently. Like how you rephrased it, for instance.



    If by nature of your DX which really are just another way of saying "this is what your personality is like" you are easily offended and upset and perceive criticism, lack of care and intent to harm where there are none, then that is something you need to work on. But it is also something HE needs to work on. Those personality traits might not be desirable and that is why they have been labelled as disorders, but the fact is they are actually just personality traits. And they are yours - they are part of you - and he supposedly loves you so he needs to work WITH you on ways of communicating that do not cause you pain, and on accepting that in life there are things everyone finds bothersome, annoying, irritating etc but it is not actually necessary to point them out. That isn't dishonesty, that is caring about someone else more than you care about yourself and valuing their feelings above your own irritation.

    I know, and I can admit that some things I definitely take as meaning something different than it was meant to be...but not everything. The way he says some things, I'm pretty sure anybody would find it offensive, not just me. And I agree that we both need to work on finding an affective way to communicate so that nobody gets hurt, but he refuses to admit he's part of the problem. I know my emotions are unstable in the first place, but he makes it 10 times worse than it needs to be and he can't see that.



    I do not believe you will take my advice but I am going to give it anyway: think long and hard about what you actually want from a marriage - about what "good" looks like to you - put it against what you currently have and genuinely weigh up where you are. Hanging on to something for the sake of having it, when neither party is apparently very happy with the other or the situation, is damaging and is preventing yourselves and each other from finding something that actually works and makes you happy.


    I'm just afraid that I won't find anyone even remotely similar to what I want. Like I said, my ex seemed like he was that person, he somehow always calmed me down when I got upset, always seemed like he understood how I felt, and never judged me for it, and then he hurt me really badly by getting caught up in addiction again and constantly lying to me about it when I was trying desperately to help him while staying clean myself. And when we broke up, I found out everything was just a lie in the first place. He only acted that way because he was afraid I would leave, and he thought I was a nutcase too apparently. My husband says no one is going to care more about me than he does, and because of what happened before, I'm inclined to believe that. And he does show he cares about me in just about every aspect, except when it comes to my feelings. Granted that's a big one, but considering the circumstances, I just don't know if what I want could ever exist anyway. And about neither party being happy, you're right that's what it seems like to me too and I've said it to him before, but he confuses the hell out of me. He tells me he is happy with me because "he sees through those things and they don't define me", but I don't understand how he could be happy when he finds so many things he doesn't like about me.



    NYJumpMaster, for the most part I am rational enough to decide whether the hurt is justified or not. But it's like I said to Freya, with some things I know I take them as being more hurtful than they were meant to be. But with other things, I'm pretty sure they would hurt any other person as well. I said that to him before, and he didn't agree with me. He said that he's always been blunt like that with other people too and none of them ever got hurt, so it's just me who's the problem all around. What am I supposed to say to that?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 28, 2014
  6. Freya

    Freya Loves SF Staff Member ADMIN

    I completely understand the fear of "this being the best available" which is what you described amounts to. You want someone who loves you, who treats you like your feelings matter and says things that make you feel loved and important, who considers your feelings worth protecting, who wants to be with you enough to moderate his own behaviour to ensure that you are not upset - and who is not a drug addicted liar.

    At the moment you are ensuring that you cannot have that person, because you are spending your time and energy dealing with the negative impacts of your current relationship with a man who doesn't think your feelings are important, considers you to be 'a problem' and who, if your other posts are anything to go by, is something of a violent thug, a thief, a drug dealer, and addict and a liar. Not to mention an abusive asshat.

    I am sorry to be rude about someone who is important to you, but you are doing yourself a massive disservice and at two months clean and - what? 24? you are young enough and smart enough to know that this road is leading nowhere good. You are obviously articulate and intelligent and you are very capable of moving away from this life where you have to worry if your husband is going out to half kill someone who owes him a few dollars over drugs he is selling illegally to get money to feed his own need for a high. You are very capable of getting a job, treating yourself with the respect that he declines to show you, and moving into circles where you are likely to meet a man who is able to treat you in the way that you and everyone else on the planet deserves - with consideration and respect.
     
  7. Acy

    Acy Mama Bear - TLC, Common Sense Staff Member Safety & Support

    AsphyxiateOnMisery, no one deserves to be written off by anyone as a "nutcase." That is wrong. Just wrong. Seriously, it sounds like a way to put the blame on someone else in a belittling, trivializing way. It defeats the person being called a nutcase and seems to say that they don't have the capacity to understand, so it's their fault. It disregards that a person doesn't choose to have a mental health issue.

    Yes, perhaps some of the things being said to you might be intended to help, and at the same time, some of what he's said seems to be nothing but hurtful. Where is the understanding and empathy to help you find new insight and ways of responding to the ups and downs of life? Name calling and blaming are not helpful, especially if we already feel down on ourselves. Placing the blame on our shoulders doesn't take into consideration that mentally well or mentally ill, OTHER people have an active role in "relationships with us". We might misunderstand sometimes, but sometimes we are not misunderstanding. Sometimes other people are not being nice.

    It is true that our issues can sometimes cloud our understanding, and this can be frustrating for those around us. There are many, many websites that can offer supportive assistance and suggestions to family/friends for how to support a loved with a mental illness. Your significant other might benefit from finding and internalizing those tips.

    The bottom line in my opinion: name calling and outright blaming will not help; understanding and empathy, cooperation on all sides are needed.

    I'm sorry you're feeling mixed up and ambivalent about things. Perhaps couples counselling could help you communicate with each other? (Not as a replacement for any therapy you get for yourself, but in addition to it.)
     
  8. AsphyxiateOnMisery

    AsphyxiateOnMisery Well-Known Member

    Just to clarify on some of the other things you've mentioned, technically yes he is a drug dealer, and sometimes violent and a thief, but my main problem with those things is possibly finding out he's sitting in a jail cell one day. It scares the hell out of me. That's the only reason I tell him not to do a lot of the things he wants to do. The morality factor of it doesn't really affect me because of my own personal beliefs and what I've been through. But I know he only does those things to try to help us survive somehow. Well, not the violent part so much (though the violence is never toward me)...but that's mostly because he's adapted to living a certain way on the streets and it carried over into his current lifestyle as well. He does need to work on his anger issues and wanting to fight people for things that aren't even worth it, but technically I did know that about him when I first met him, just like he knew of my mental illnesses. I'd rather him not sell drugs or have to steal anything, that's a definite, but the fact is sometimes if he didn't we'd be completely screwed in every aspect that one can be screwed in. He is a drug addict himself, too, but so am I. And even though after the whole thing with my ex ended I promised myself I'd never put myself in such a situation again, I quickly realized that if I choose to be with someone who never had addiction problems, I wouldn't be good enough for them because of my own problems with it. If I ever relapsed or even just started craving really badly, that person wouldn't understand and might leave me. Plus, someone who is naive to addiction is very easy to take advantage of, and if god forbid I got to the point again where I was so deep into it that I didn't care about anyone or anything else besides getting a fix, I would probably take that opportunity and act like just as much of an asshole as my ex did to me before. And I don't want to be that way because I know how badly it hurts. Whereas with my husband, I know damn well that if I got high behind his back, he'd notice right away and would both be more sympathetic towards it, and also at the same time do everything to make sure I couldn't do it again. As for him lying about getting high, I did think that for a while and it scared the hell out of me, but I hope to hell that that really was just my paranoia because of what I went through in the past, considering that it hasn't happened again since. I know that it can be extremely dangerous when two addicts are in a romantic relationship together because they could both be bringing each other down and keeping each other from staying clean, but it hasn't been like that so far with us for the past 2 years and I hope it never happens. As for the original issue that my first post was about, I'm trying really hard to come to some sort of compromise/understanding with him about it. I know he's scared to death to lose me and same thing vice versa. Yesterday, I came up with the idea for both of us to express one thing that gets said by the other person that hurts really badly and next time if it does get said the other person can call them out on it, in which case they have to either retract their statement or rephrase it. He promised me he would, so I really hope it works. And thank you to everyone who responded for your support. I do truly appreciate it.
     
  9. NYJmpMaster

    NYJmpMaster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    I say I agree you are rational enough to know if they would hurt any sensible person and you should put as much distance as possible between yourself and him if he does not think so or thinks your feelings and thoughts do not count.
     
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