Could we start over?

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by Øyvind, Nov 28, 2014.

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  1. Øyvind

    Øyvind Senior Member

    I know there are no realistic ways to make this happen, but it's a thought experiment at least. What if we got rid of currency? What if we radically rethink our existence, society, work and government?

    I'm not for anarchy exactly. I think free healthcare is a human right, and without a tax system, without money, how many people would volunteer to be doctors, surgeons and nurses?
    There needs to be some sort of rule of law too. If there isn't, then anyone can do anything to me and get away with it, unless I go on some sort of personal vendetta straight out of the movies...
    But the problem is, once you start planning a new model from scratch, you discover you need those two things at least, and maybe some other things, and then you need to find out a way to have those things, and before you know it, you're back to where we are now. Thinking outside the box is hard.
    I'm not smart enough to clearly visualize a new societal system, but it is SO needed. Right now we're all trapped, and forced to live pointless lives and then die. I feel like I don't own my life. The government does. Society does.
    According to society, according to most (brainwashed) people, and especially hardcore capitalists, life is about working. About having children (as if the world isn't overpopulated and we need the majority of people to not have children to turn back the clock on that). About getting married etc.
    NONE of this matters in the big picture.
    Look at where we are!
    Look at what we are!
    Look at how we are able to think complex thoughts, how we're actually able to look at where we are and what we are...and a billion years ago, we were single celled organisms. recently we were apes...and then look at where we are now. What we are doing. How we are spending our existence as human beings...FAIL. It was all for nothing, it seems.
    This. is. not. normal. There is nothing mundane about our existence and the universe, so it's time we stop putting our heads in the sand, it's time society stops putting our heads in the sand for us, it's time we stop being brainwashed and brainwashing others into thinking our existence is normal and mundane, it's time we stop being forced, and in return forcing others, to waste our/their lives and our/their existence on man-made distractions.
    We need dramatic change and I am not hopeful this change will ever come. I think the only way it can come is if something from the outside shakes things up, like discovering intelligent E.Ts or something spiritual happening.

    http://9gag.com/gag/a9MP1q6?ref=t
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 28, 2014
  2. justMe7

    justMe7 Well-Known Member

    Yeah.. there is alot of deception in the foundations of our lives.
    I feel posting about it in detail is too triggering, but ... Yeah.
    Yeah. Not the right forum. But I think we can begin to make a better world for people, if we start from the essentials. And not just in the "ends" but in how we develop and create our systems and technology. The methods we use to reach a destination are just as vital as the ends.
    Society is full of bullshit though.. it screws with your heart and mind because it's so powerful. Trouble is, society is "safe". Real free life is full of unconditioned chaos. Humanity at it's core is capable of seeing, interacting, manipulating and creating it's environment. It then bullshits it's people with flashy lights, tools and features. But the development, methods, security ect... not everyone is really privy to that. They bring you up believing in a facade. Potentially in the hopes we'll actually make that facade a reality. But this shit steals lives, just as much as it saves them I suppose.
    I hope we don't encounter another species besides the ones on Earth. We'd just lose the opportunity to grow and truly be a beneficial part of Life. Right now, we'll rape, break, tear, melt, stitch, mold and program anything if it suits our needs.
    We are dangerous as a group. But as individuals, .. well. We're lovely. Or atleast, we can be. But living that means a slower more intune progression. Something the human condition rejects because it has a predatory component in it. Imo
    But yeah. 9-5 :p Does that shit really feel Right?
     
  3. Perfect Melancholy

    Perfect Melancholy SF Friend

    Certain aspects I concur, at school what are we taught? Without sounding rebellious or radicalised we are taught simply this, conform, fit in, get an education to get a job and start paying your taxes and give back to society.

    I don't believe the system we use is wrong in some ways, it's more corrupted the top is a boys club those in it for their own means not the good of the wider world, I don't look humanity much based on greed the need to consume mass products and resources.

    What I do believe is the good of people, and part if me however child like and innocence it may seem by acting on our moral guidance not one of law or religion we can make it better, to the point those at the top have to listen.

    how can we do this as an individual? Protest peacefully, you know those a demonstration in your area for a cause you believe in? Join it, I'm not saying break the law I am saying by democratic means protesting is legal and age old. So get involved.

    Volunteer, find a cause you believe in, doctors without borders as we all know have been fighting Ebola they rely on public good will and volunteers, even simple things in life, hold doors open have good manners. Think about it if everyone did a little bit of what they wish the wider world would do then one day those in power have no choice but to behave/listen/ act in a better way then society acts now.

    I'm sure someone will rip this aoart, and yes it is simplistic, but hey have an idea too complicated and it's more likely to go wrong.. I'll leave this with a quote from a song

    "Never except conventional form without reason"
     
  4. Viktor

    Viktor Well-Known Member

    It's interesting. Another person who isn't blind as 90% people in the world. Congrats! I have seen i think one post like that before you. And i wrote huge wall of text about this topic and i would again like to use that thread as my answer. I went way more into details, but you are basically saying same thing as i am. So here is my answer: http://www.suicideforum.com/showthread.php?134919-System

    I think i said that there too, but i also wanna add that nothing will ever change until more people like you opens their eyes. The problem is that there are people who makes good profit from the system and those people doesn't have a reason to open their eyes, because they actually like the world as it is. And due to these brainwashed (as you nicely said) people, the human kind will suffer one day. Maybe sooner than you think. Then these people maybe will open their eyes, but it will probably be too late.

    Humans. The biggest bunch of nonsense that ever happened on this planet!
     
  5. DrownedFishOnFire

    DrownedFishOnFire Quieta non movere

    What drives a human being to work a lot of undesired jobs? Currency. Without reward no one will do it.

    Plus

    Money keeps things in balance for now. If there was no money then human nature will pit human vs human for resources. It's a given. There always will be bullies that takes over a resource and fighting is going to happen.
     
  6. Prinnctopher's Belt

    Prinnctopher's Belt Antiquities Friend SF Supporter

    You can start the revolution right now by sending me all of your destructive currency, and I'll be sure to exchange it for resources that help me to live a life I don't think is pointless nor without purpose. Send all your money to me. Listen, I'll private message you my address. There's a Travelex right down the street, about a mile, that I can literally run to in four minutes or less. Let's get the revolution underway, man! I mean, start with the man in the mirror!

    But everything depends on perspective, Oyvind. As an individual human being, you have options. You can choose not to conform. You don't have to participate in a system and economy you don't believe in. Find some land, build your own home the way we all used to do before we discovered that we could pay banks to pay builders to do it for us, grow your own food, filter your own water from a stream and make your own system for waste control and converting solar energy to power lights and such. The basics. There's nothing more wonderful in the world than building your own home and living in it without owing anyone anything. Not that we know much about that. But it's an option for the lifestyle you want.

    I don't think living is pointless. I don't think building meaningful, selfless relationships with other people to love in your lifetime is pointless. I don't think the Earth is overpopulated and I particularly don't think it's pointless to create new and probably improved generations of life. I actually think that is our purpose for living - to improve ourselves in order to care for the generation that will succeed us because, if we play our cards right and embrace caring for others, then maybe our children, future humanity, will pass on those same sentiments, thereby creating a better world with each new generation. The world is supposedly less violent and more knowledgeable of otherworldly things than it's ever been, despite there never being peace. We have a pretty long way to go, but overall I think we try and we've made some progress. We're trying to change and still figuring out the how, but are too greedy to accept rejection of the things that make us feel good temporarily but don't aid our progress to becoming better individuals.

    We think the world has to do this to change, the world has to do that to change, the world has to change. Well the world is made up of billions of individuals and that's it. If you can't or won't change as an individual and choose to be, and do things that are, more valuable, more caring, more curious, more tolerant, less superficial, less violent, less zealous, more inspiring to someone else, then neither will the rest of the world.

    It's easy to accept that we are merely here for ourselves and lack purpose, because it relieves us of any responsibility to care for anyone else. And that is the problem that leads us to a greedy society we have now; a problem that's deeper than just having a currency exchange for goods. And it won't change until each individual changes.
     
  7. Adam

    Adam SF Supporter

    I am keeping my eye on the growing movement towards, Ethical capitalism. (It is interesting stuff) Hoping the pro democracy movements will latch onto it and move away from shrieking pathetically, “Down with capitalism, down with the rich.” Like that is any kind of solution. I am against the crony capitalism we have now. But life is no Disney film and the underdog in this story has a lot arrayed against them. But there is a distinct sense something is very wrong.

    But the cynic in me has already purchased marshmallows and is just waiting for the inevitable fires to toast them on. Smores anybody? Boom and bust, atrocity and renewal are just cycles of life. Till the mentality changes though we are doomed to repeat the cycle upping the stakes every time till we eventually destroy our current civilisation.

    You don't have to be economically literate to grasp broke countries loaning to broke countries who in turn loan to broke counties while simultaneously devaluing their currency the entire time. Is nothing more than a terrible global house of cards that will very likely topple. The issue with currency right now is it has no real meaning or actual value. It is anchored to nothing and is pretty much created out of nothing. It is entity unto itself that has no basis in reality what so ever. Worst of all quality of life is measured in it. Any one who wants to tell me about trickle down theory I will simply laugh at.
     
  8. Viktor

    Viktor Well-Known Member

    Nice try :D Now think again and maybe you will find that we cannot do that without participating in a system.

    I don't think living is pointless. I don't think building meaningful, selfless relationships with other people to love in your lifetime is pointless. I don't think the Earth is overpopulated and I particularly don't think it's pointless to create new and probably improved generations of life. I actually think that is our purpose for living - to improve ourselves in order to care for the generation that will succeed us because, if we play our cards right and embrace caring for others, then maybe our children, future humanity, will pass on those same sentiments, thereby creating a better world with each new generation. The world is supposedly less violent and more knowledgeable of otherworldly things than it's ever been, despite there never being peace. We have a pretty long way to go, but overall I think we try and we've made some progress. We're trying to change and still figuring out the how, but are too greedy to accept rejection of the things that make us feel good temporarily but don't aid our progress to becoming better individuals.

    We think the world has to do this to change, the world has to do that to change, the world has to change. Well the world is made up of billions of individuals and that's it. If you can't or won't change as an individual and choose to be, and do things that are, more valuable, more caring, more curious, more tolerant, less superficial, less violent, less zealous, more inspiring to someone else, then neither will the rest of the world.

    This is true. Because if each individual won't change, the world's system won't change. And if the world's system won't change, there will be no such future you speak off. Then some generations after us will see what progress we made. And who knows? Maybe you'll still live to see it too. Hope you are looking forward to your bright future.
     
  9. Øyvind

    Øyvind Senior Member

    If I get my hands on any considerable amount of currency, senora Prinn, I'll get right on it!
    The problem with currency is that it is the root of the "prison" that this society is. In this system, in order to not be poor and all the disadvantages that come with it, you have to waste your life on work. And if you don't, you can't build your own home. You can't live freely.
    Look at the universe and the incredible way we came to be, our consciousness and intelligence, free will and feelings and ability to philosophize. And then look at how we are spending our lives. Work and money really does not matter in the big picture. Us humans should spend our lives having fun, philosophizing and exploring space, trying to figure out what is going on and what we are and where we are and why this happened. Instead we spend our lives in offices and behind counters and desks, writing papers that do not matter in the big picture, having meetings that do not matter in the big picture, earning money that don't matter in the big picture, none of these man made things matter in the big picture. It's not a matter of perspective. Objectively, from the perspective of the universe, god or whatever you believe in, we are wasting our miraculous existence on bullshit. If we just turned to a blank page, started over, maybe we could find a better way. A way to be free, in mind and in spirit.
     
  10. Prinnctopher's Belt

    Prinnctopher's Belt Antiquities Friend SF Supporter

    Even if you weren't working for currency, you would be working. The evolution of everything in existence required an expenditure of energy. Do you think you're able to communicate with us because of developments in technology that didn't matter? The scientists and thinkers who created the Hubble that gave us an unprecedented view of thousands of galaxies in an area of space previously thought to have nothing but darkness. Did their achievements not matter? With every supposedly meaningless event and meeting and paper in their life, it helped to shape what and who they became and contributed to our knowledge and our perspectives of everything.

    Yes, it matters. In the big picture, Oyvind, everything and everyone does matter, even you. Everything is connected. We are as valuable and mortal as the stars, but I think that vulnerability makes the existence even more precious.

    The things we do have value and a place. So make the things you do count. One thing someplace across the universe affects another on the other side eventually. Expend energy. How do you think everything comes to be? Not for a lack of matter and energy if I recall the laws of physics correctly.
     
  11. Prinnctopher's Belt

    Prinnctopher's Belt Antiquities Friend SF Supporter

    I'd love to start over and equalize the playing field. We can start right now by eliminating the greatest source of information - and ironically also silliness - known to mankind, the internet, and see how well that goes.

    We can take the lemons we've got and try to make some lemonade, or just throw them away and do without. It takes time and patience, and lots of failure and disappointment to achieve anything great and valuable. I believe our civilization will come around eventually, but like you said, it's going to take reaching the precipice of disaster and annihilation to push the changes that will break us into another level.

    Dr. Kaku had some thoughts on what we could possibly become. It's linked in my signature.
     
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