Death penalty

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by Mya, Dec 14, 2006.

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  1. Mya

    Mya Well-Known Member

    what is every ones oppinion on the death penalty and why you beleve the way you do...:smile:
  2. Malcontent

    Malcontent Staff Alumni

    Wont write a long post right now, might tomorrow... I don't believe in the death penalty under any circumstances, I don't think anyone has the right to decide who lives and who dies. Although killing is sometimes necessary, it's never right. And should not be a part of a justice system in my opinion.
  3. Marshmallow

    Marshmallow Staff Alumni

    I have mixed opinions on this, i mean sometimes a death penalty is within reason if soemone is a constant danger to other people but sometimes its not vital and sometimes its wrong. Will right a longer answer when im not so tired lol but basically in my view some times i think it should bu used and other now.
  4. theleastofthese

    theleastofthese SF Friend Staff Alumni

    It's not logical to kill people to punish them for killing people. It doesn't bring back the victim and it amounts to playing God. Other laws, enforce, fine, but to kill people for killing people is illogical and inhumane. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

    least able to judge others

    I must note that even if the victim were one of my family I do NOT want to retaliate, thus perpetuating the cycle of violence and hate, by killing the perpetrator of the crime. The criminal/killer will face the ultimate justice one day and it is not mine to dispense now.
  5. Mya

    Mya Well-Known Member

    i beleave that killing them is rewording stead of having to live with the fact that they killed someone we kill them! i personally t hink torture is the best punishment but then again i am quite morbid...
  6. raw

    raw Senior Member & Antiquities Friend

    I am very much opposed to the death penalty. First, I believe some things are just wrong. Killing is wrong. And since I believe killing is wrong, killing someone else as punishment would make me my own enemy. It would be an illogical place to be. Last, execution can't be undone. Mistakes are permanent.

    Just my 2 cents

  7. Syd

    Syd Guest

    This was already covered in another thread.. I can find it and link it if you want. Anyway, I'll just try to be really quick in this response, so as not to bore anyone..

    Death penalty is not only morally wrong, it's also illogical for many reasons.

    - The 'punishment' of death teaches criminals nothing, as their lives are over. The whole purpose of punishment is to reform behavior here, in life. Regardless, executions also fail to scare other potential murderers into changing their ways. True killers lack conscience, morality, or empathy.. they are simply too corrupted at that level to consider consequences.

    - Destroying criminals is also destroying more opportunities for psychological research by criminologists. Scientists need to communicate, run tests, and study homicidal people. The better we understand why and how they developed into killers, the better chances we have to improve societal environments, education, and medicine, to ultimately prevent more criminals from surfacing in our society. That's saving lives, as opposed to, you know.. killing for the sake of revenge.

    - Not only is it barbaric, it does nothing to bring back the victims who were killed, nor does it bring 'peace of mind' or 'justice' to friends and relatives of the victims. Peace of mind comes when we are able to understand why events occured, and are able to forgive and accept that which we can't change. Promoting education, fighting crime responsibly, improving social environments are all positive ways of responding to violence. The death penalty is counter-productive. Here's a hint: Any act that the government would be ashamed to show on television to the public is not 'justice'.

    - As others pointed out, death is not a punishment to offenders. Death is freedom, while life in prison is punishment. If you want the criminals to pay for their crimes, force them to live so that they'll see their actions failed. Life goes on, and even the families and friends of the victims will move forward and be strong enough to face the challenges of life despite their losses. The criminal will have to accept that good triumphs over bad, and hopefully they will learn to regret their actions as they grow older. Many criminals who take up writing in prison have provided important insight to psychologists and anyone who works to help troubled children before they become criminals.

    Remember, criminals are human beings. They have usually suffered far more than their victims, and while it's simply not feasible to reform all criminals - it is possible for society to learn from our mistakes and make the world a better place for our children.
  8. kindtosnails

    kindtosnails Staff Alumni

    Mm short answer, don't agree with it at all for many reasons...but then I don't really agree with prison and other punishments half the time. People make mistakes. There's usually a reason why criminals choose that one's born sick or evil, to be honest I think people who have committed murder, rape etc should be helped not punished, and certainly not put to death. I understand society needs to see crimes as wrong and punishment as a way to show between right and wrong but I don't think it helps and surely its just taking the eye for an eye mentality. If the law is allowed to take revenge by putting murderers to death, what does that teach the rest of society? Anyway, I also get that people don't want rapists, murderers etc on the streets and I don't know what the solution is, it just feels like putting them away can't be the answer, yeah there's some prison systems that try to help but I'm sure that's not every country, and i'm also sure half of it is government statistics to make us feel better about indirectly putting some young person who may have had a terrible childhood, with no way to learn about right and wrong and made a mistake to death. In a way, and I'm sure I'll be shot down for saying this, these people were "our" responsibility so in a way, live with it. I don't like the whole sweep it under the carpet attitude, and locking people up, its just wrong. And sure, "they" might argue it would cost a lot of money, but how much does it cost to keep them all in prison..a lot. Besides, they don't seem too worried about spending billions on war and such. Meh, i'm done, sorry strayed off the point.

  9. As far as capital punishment not being a deterrent, it undeniably deters those for whom the death sentence is meted out.

    The purpose of killing a convicted criminal is not to teach him / her anything ( It is an illogical premise.)

    If executing a convicted murderer ( for example ) is not a deterrent to other evil-doers, would imprisonment have any intimidation value ?
    You stated, "Death is freedom while life in prison is punishment." Judging by the filled-to-capacity prisons, apparently not.

    You stated that capital punishment does nothing to bring back the victims who were killed. Again, this is an illogical premise; has anyone ever defended capital punishment based upon this argument ? :rolleyes:

    You stated "Remember, criminal are human beings." How does being a human
    change anything ? How does this observation alter the moral parameters of criminal behavior ? If anything, by virtue of our intellect and our ability to reason, being human only increases culpability and makes the issue of personal guilt that much more significant. Being a human magnifies the issue of personal choices; it does nothing to mitigate it.
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2006
  10. Syd

    Syd Guest

    It doesn't though, that's the thing. Someone who is corrupted enough to actually seriously contemplate killing human beings is not going to consider the consequences that an empathetic and moral person considers.

    I didn't mean to imply that it should. Punishment as defined in Psychology, used as a form of behavioral conditioning that is used as a teaching tool is what I believe to be an appropriate action against criminals in these situations. My response was to those who think of death as simply the gateway to the afterlife and may classify execution as a form of punishment in that context - which it is not.

    Of course imprisonement wouldn't have any more intimidation value than the death penalty, but that's not the point. My post was in regards to the people who actually believe the death penalty scares would-be murderers into becoming lawful. The point is the death penalty is destroying the chance for research on some of the most corrupted criminals, it's basically saying our society is too stupid to actually learn from our mistakes and address the criminal problem at its sources. If you want to cut down on the amount of criminals being bred, you need to conduct research on the criminals themselves, and create a good system to improve the social environments where criminal development is taking place. I'm not saying our current over-filled prisons are a good solution at all. Aside from protecting the general populace from criminals, the prisons are not making good use of the criminals at all.

    You're taking a rhetorical statement literally, and the resulting response is way out of context. The point I was making is that the victims' family aren't going to feel better after the criminal is murdered. The line was a reference to the fact that the source of their grief is the loss of their friend or family member, not the existence of the criminal. Channeling hatred onto the criminal and killing him or her does not bring anyone peace of mind.

    Yes, being human means that we're susceptible to strong emotions including anger, guilt, the desire for revenge, etc. Emotions are healthy and good, it is the way we vent our emotions that can be unhealthy and detrimental to society. Most Psychologists would agree that anger can be used positively, and can motivate us to improve our lives if we learn to control our emotional outlets. True empathy, understanding of others, and forgiveness are the most powerful methods to bring about absolute peace of mind. Besides, I said criminals are humans because people often label the most corrupted as 'inhuman' and treat them as monsters. It is a significant mistake to do so, because those of this ideology often assume that society can do nothing to prevent criminals from destroying human life, therefore they continue executing them while more appear in their place. It's a vicious cycle, that's what I'm getting at. I don't know why people don't understand that we need to cut crime off at it's sources - the social environments, childhood, this is the critical stage of life that determines whether someone becomes a lawful citizen or a serial killer.
  11. granta

    granta Member

    I don't like to see the death penalty imposed on anyone. If the convicted agreed to it, maybe.
  12. InnerStrength

    InnerStrength Well-Known Member

    Actually, from what I've read the Death penalty costs more than it does to keep a prisoner alive for the duration of his life. I'll have to look for that article. The main reason, I believe, is because of the outrageous court costs, appeals, etc.

  13. Wow :eek: , so in REALITY, I didn't have a single valid point !!! Thanks for setting me straight Syd ! :worthy:

    ( Just some good-natured sarcasm :shake: )

    I personally disagree with the amount of emphasis that you place upon environmental factors as opposed to genetic predisposition. Of course this is the classic "nature vs nurture" debate. :fence:
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2006
  14. Syd

    Syd Guest

    Heh. It's not so much that I believe environment is heavily dominant over genetic influence on personality (they both have some impact) it's just that since environment is all we can really work with right now, in terms of social improvement... it only seems logical for people to focus on environment, in an effort to improve our collective control. Now, I will admit that I think in most cases the environment is more important, I have yet to see research indicating that humans are born with evil intentions. Though I will say that some have genetic conditions making them more prone to developing criminal thinking in unhealthy environments. Yet I wouldn't label those with these genetic conditions as criminals from birth. The idea is to invest funding in education and research to find better ways of dealing with those who are prone to problems, and hopefully it's possible for the doctors and teachers to provide the extra help these individuals need to live mentally healthy lives.

    This has been called a too 'idealistic' or 'optimistic' approach by some. That's okay, it doesn't bother me.. and they're probably right. ;P I think I feel strongly about this stance because I recognize it in myself, and my own experiences, and have seen others who are sensitive to their environments suffer from difficulties because of their upbringings. I realize that everyone is different though, and others may not be influenced to the extent that others are. Truly, I don't take any of this seriously enough that I would cling to this ideology over others. My opinions are probably just as biased as most. It's all in fun, for the sake of discusion.

    One thing I'm sure many of us would agree on is that we need more answers to such issues. Crime is a major problem, and we could use all the help we can get. That's why I'm hopeful that the majority of the populace would be in support of better education and increased funding towards research of criminals. If death row is necessary, then so be it, there's not much I can do about it except complain.. and believe it or not I sometimes make a conscious effort to avoid being annoying. ;P I only ask that some federal tax money goes towards true reform of the educational system to better serve the new generations of children. More of that federal budget should also go towards research, both mental and physical health being equally important. I feel there is currently more focus on physical health, and would prefer to see more of a balance. Anyway, everyone must get my point by now, and I'm falling asleep! So then I'll leave it at that.
  15. Syd

    Syd Guest

    I might have to disagree with myself, come to think of it.

    I've had a reasonably good childhood, and my sister (who is 1 yr. older than me) has turned out just fine as a young adult. She has a great bf, loving friends, a successful job, and she seems a well-adjusted and happy person with a great sense of humor and positive future.

    ...then there's me. I'm completely spent, no motivation, no enthusiasm, my friends are long gone, I'm socially isolated, have no job, no relationship, seem to barely have enough discipline to drag myself through the classes I'm taking.. and worst of all, I don't even care! I don't get lonely, and I seem unnaturally content despite the fact that I'm apparently defying the genetic programming telling me to conform to society, procreate, and actively contribute to humankind. I'm a living casualty. Yet it seems most likely that my behavior is predisposed in some way, I've been introverted and shy since I was young, though it's been of varying degrees, and my childhood environment was pretty great by all accounts. It seems likely that the genetic differences between my sister and I are what led us to develop different personalities and take different routes in life. (After all, we were both raised in virtually the same environments)

    I'll admit though, my past friends have turned out to be some nasty, manipulative people.. while my sister seems to not only make great friends, but she keeps her friends for life. Okay, point made. I don't like comparing myself to my sister. :/
  16. Although I support the limited use of capital punishment ( I know, I know, I'm a bad person :dry: :nono: ) I am not saying that it should be implemented with the swiftness and ease of imposing a traffic fine, eg "You're guilty of jay-walking , prepare to meet your maker...NEXT !!"

    Each case should be meticulously reviewed with the utmost of care and the appeals process should be allowed to continue, but I personally reject any analogies that equate capital punishment with murder.. To me that is the same as trying to establish moral equivalency between rape and love-making because both examples involve sexual behavior.

    If any you want to lambast me for my views, I am prepared to be chastised. I guess that's the price I have to pay for not being part of a consensus :tomato: .

    Last edited: Dec 21, 2006
  17. TheAngelOfMusicalDeath

    TheAngelOfMusicalDeath Active Member

    The Death Penalty... An interesting topic is it not?

    Now some people say that keeping people in prison for the remainder of their lives is much better then letting them be killed within a month or so.

    With this, i disagree

    Lets look at the facts. While in prison, people may or may not learn their lesson. Murder cases usually give them one life sentance if not more, so they are bound to rot in a jail cell anyways, making the point of "Teaching them a lesson" Moot, as they will never get the chance to apply the lesson.

    Now i am sure it is more expensave to shoot somone in the head, then it is to house, feed, cloth, bathe, moniter for 53 years... I honestly don't think so.. If they had simpler ways of death "Bullet to the head, Hanging, slit their throat ECT" Then costs for the Death Penalty wouldn't be so high.

    Playing god: Now who can say we really play god? Honestly? We choose who dies because of crimes they commited. Thats not playing god, thats being human. Would you rather feel safe in knowing that a murder is dead, then "Reformed" and on the streets? I honestly don't think so. Reformed or not, psychologicly, people still retain their base nature, that of a killer, and will eventually revert back to it. Look at Saddam Hussein, he commited Genocide, do you really want to try to Revert him to a normal peron? No, he took the lives of millions of people. One life in payment for 1,000,000..Not good Odds there..

    Now, some people have said that, "The death penalty won't give any consoltation to those who lost loved ones." Will having them rot in prison give them any consoltation either? I don't think so.

    Setting them free? Hardly. You are condemming them to an inevitable life of damnation (For christians) The death penalty just speeds the process up.

    There were several other points made, but its time to make mine.

    I am in full favor for the death penalty for the following reasons
    1. I'd rather see a murder dead then "reformed" and on the streets
    2. It would lower the population of the earth, and give more resources to those people who commited minor crimes, and to the rest of the world
    3. We may not get to study them no, but we know more then enough about it to make simple descisions.
    4. Because there are some people who just need to die.
  18. Terry

    Terry Antiquities Friend Staff Alumni

    Right, I used to be really anti-death penalty. Then with all the violence and child killing that's been going on, I started to think maybe it was the answer.

    2 days ago, however, our newpapers decided to show (in detail) the execution of Sadam Hussain. A truly wicked man got his just desserts and it made me feel sick. It was so cold blooded that I've had to go back to being totally anti again.
  19. TG123

    TG123 Well-Known Member

    I believe it is wrong and against Christ's teachings.

    'Let He who is without sin cast the first stone'.
    - Jesus

    His opinion is good enough for me.

    Cristo Vive!
    - Tomasz
  20. Marshmallow

    Marshmallow Staff Alumni

    Exactly, those pictured we're very graphic, i mean come on! did we nearly need to see that! needed to see his dead body. Im still kinda torn between it but im starting to lean towards being anti death penalty now.
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