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Death?

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claycad

Well-Known Member
#21
Okay, I am totally confused:huh:

I was totally arguing with non_existance about reincarnation and now InnterStregth is in on it! what the's deal.

are you one in the same? are you schizophrenic? or does non_existance need InnterStregth to help fight his battles? Maybe it is just a mix up with technology and non_existances post are coming through as InnerStrengths or vice versa.

Anyway, some points...asumming you are both the same person.

there's many reasons to not kill yourself:
-if you do, you'll just get reborn again [unfortunetly this is actually true, and proven]
actually you did, but you just don't remember doing it because it was done in past lives
same here.

there's enough data collected by researchers on past-life memories to conclude that we just keep getting reborn over and over again.
All these quotes blatantly imply that reincarnation is a fact.

But then you say....

I do not believe in reincarnation per say
Anyway. I apologize for my comment about the idiot thing. Although you did take it out of context. I wasn't calling you or anyone else an idiot. I was simply making the point that anyone can say anything but that doesn't make it true, so actually I was saying your weren't an idiot in a twisted way. I don't know you, so I have no right to honestly assume you are an idiot. I don't assume any person is inferior or superior to me in anyway no matter what cynical sarcastic comments I make. The same goes for me saying my opinion is superior than yours. It case you haven't realized I'm a sarcastic arrogant asshole and that was a sarcastic arrogant comment. I apologize if you took any personal offense to it by taking it out of the context I meant it to be in. Don't take anything I say seriously.

Anyway, I love to debate. I debate on things even if I totally don't agree with them. I could totally debate with you until I drop dead, but you sound like you don't want to. I will say, you have had some good arguments although I will maintain I disagree with them at the momment. Agree to disagree?

I hope you don't take anything I say too seriously. You seem open minded, so I hope you don't assume I'm a completely bad person by the things I say on an internet forum. Anyway, you sounded a bit too perturbed at me in your last post. I don't take offence to anything anybody tells me on the internet and sometimes that makes me assume that nobody else takes offence to the things I say, which is something I shouldn't assume. So I apologize for anything said out of context, and please learn not to take anything I say to heart.

Anyway, even if this doesn't change your opinion of me I'd at least like you to let me know you read it...for some reason unbeknownst to me. While we may never be friends, at least we can try to be tolerate of each other, but who knows maybe we will become friends, one can never tell.

So I assume we declare this debate over? I don't know how you feel about it, but It's been a blast for me:biggrin:

And i am totally confused about the whole non_existence/InnerStrength things...whats the deal?
 
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InnerStrength

Well-Known Member
#22
I assure you that I am not non_existance. And btw, Schizophrenia does not mean multiple personalities, that is a common misconception. Ask any reputable psychologist/psychiatrist.

As for debating, yes I do get rather perturbed when someone attacks my point of view, I take it rather personally really. It's probably a very irritating character flaw to most. And so, I apologize for that.

And yes, this debate is over. You have your side, and I have mine (which is different from non-existance's). I doubt I would be able to change it, and even if it were possible, it would require to much effort on my part :P

Again, for the record, I am not non_existance. And to show there are no hard feelings, I wish you a good day :)
 

helena

Staff Alumni
#23
Even if there is an afterlife or reincarnation, not that I believe it, but for sake of argument lets say it's real. All of our memories are encapsulated in living brain cells which die when we die. So even if we have some sort of soul or supernatural ora that leaves our bodies it wouldn't remember anything about us. So if one kills themselves and ends up in hell or reborn into a worse existence or whatever our soul becomes after our bodies die, it would have no recollection of why the new being was suffering. So even if we have a soul that leaves us when we die; our own existence would be gone and a new existence would be created...and who cares if that new existence suffers, not our problem anymore cause our existence has ceased...."
:) good, that sounds plausible and sure is a relieve.
I loved this uhm, debate, discussion and I really think you managed to respect one another and stick to your point ,and it was really, really very interesting to read it.
Thanks:smile:
:hug:
helena
 

claycad

Well-Known Member
#24
No, this isn't continuing the debate I just want to clarify a huge mistake. And I would like everyone to read as I would like some opinions on what sparked the whole debate between what was supposed to be between me and non existence. I think the debate was called for, but maybe I over reacted, I would like anyone to read my last paragraph and the link to the post that sparked the debate and give me some opinions of whether I over reacted or not.

InnerStregth,
I thought you were non_existence. I have no beef with you. I have read your posts on about your beliefs in reincarnation. including these:

Someone by the name of Dr. Ian Stevenson conducted thorough(sp?) research of reincarnation and wrote a book on the subject. There have also been numerous other cases supporting this concept. I suppose it does not prove reincarnation, but it forces me to consider the idea, rather than simply shrugging it off because it's labelled as "supernatural"
I believe the Buddhists call being reborn again and again "samsura" and they view it as a bad thing...well good/bad, but it's only good because it enlightens you. When you become enlightened, you are no longer reborn and then you are supposed to find true peace and happiness.

I have no beef with this you saying any of these. You explicating say in the first quote "it does not prove reincarnation" and in the second quote you say "I believe". Now I respect all beliefs and opinions as long as they are presented at so and not fact. Non_existence was presenting them as absolute proof saying quotes like this:

there's many reasons to not kill yourself:
-if you do, you'll just get reborn again [unfortunetly this is actually true, and proven]
but I would have even kept my mouth shut on that quote. The problem I had was when non_existence told a woman who was upset and and suicidal because of racism put towards her that esenutially the racist comments said to her was HER fault because she was a bad person in a past life and then implied that it was a fact, not his personal beliefe.. Now that isn't a word for word quote but that is how I interpreted it and I am sure that is how a depressed person feeling suicidal might interpret. I thought it was somewhat of an inappropriate thing to say to a person who was depressed and suicidal. That is what sparked this whole debate on reincarnation and was really only supposed to be between me and non_existence no one else. I fully respect all the things you have said InnerStrength because you present them as your opinions and personal beliefs which I have no problem with.

Just wanted to clarify that. Also here is the link to the thread that sparked my whole wanting to debate about what non_existence said. Maybe I over reacted to my interpretation of what he said to the woman who started the post, and I would actually like some opinions on it if anyone wouldn't mind.


http://suicideforum.com/showthread.php?p=135499#post135499

My whole point for the debate was this.

The point is, you don't tell a person who is depressed and suicidal that it is THEIR fault that bad things happen to them because they were a bad person in a past life, then present that idea as an ABSOLUTE fact, as you have done. It is in no way, shape, or form a fact. Only a theory and YOUR opinion. A depressed person could easily misinterpret what you said to mean that it must be a fact that if they were a bad person in a past life, they must be a bad person in this life. I'm sure your intentions are good, but be careful of the advice you give to a person with suicidal thoughts as it could easily be misconstrued.
 
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InnerStrength

Well-Known Member
#25
In concerns to this quote

"I have no beef with this you saying any of these. You explicating say in the first quote "it does not prove reincarnation" and in the second quote you say "I believe". "

I think this was the result of a miscommunication, probably on my part. I simply meant I believe the Buddhists *call* being reborn samsura, I am stating that I believe the Buddhists believe that. I don't necessarily trust that belief system myself. I never said I "believe in what the Buddhists call samsura." A simple miscommunication.
 
#26
I can't enter into this debate, but I wanted to say that non_existence views are not Buddhist (in case it may have been assumed they were). They have some qualities in common superficially, but are essentially different.

Also InnerStrength:

I understand your assertions well, but they are not necessarily Buddhist either.

No offence intended to either you or non_existence .

For the record, Buddhist teachings on the continuation of existence are often confused, and sometimes in quite subtle ways, with the Hindu belief in reincarnation, but these are completely different.

gabriel.
 
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