Democracy/Communism..... they're really just the same

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by itmahanh, Oct 8, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. itmahanh

    itmahanh Senior Member & Antiquities Friend

    In both situations the poor are equally as poor the rich are equally as rich and the leaders of said parties are just as equal for ruling and running the place you call home.

    The only difference is that in a democracy we are led to believe we have choices and are able to hold our leaders responsible for their actions. In a communistic state you know right from the start where you stand. No political bullshit, empty promises or waste of tax dollars to make you think you have something you never really did.

    People of democratic countries, of liberties and freedoms, have got to stop being such pussies. Start standing up and reclaiming the rights and responsibilities as citizens. We have become complacent. Ready to say well it really isnt my problem, the government knows what its's doing, it wont really affect me, I didnt vote them in and so on and so on. Open your eyes , there really is no such thing as democracy, it's just another fancy way to say ... man are you guillable!!!! Just another way to say communism.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 8, 2009
  2. Chargette

    Chargette Well-Known Member

    Power corrupts leaders. History repeats itself. People struggle just to live everyday. Leaders change but the daily struggle goes on.
  3. Mikeintx

    Mikeintx Well-Known Member

    itmahanh, I don't have anything else to add to this thread other than to say I completely agree with you and thank you for wording it so well :)
  4. shades

    shades Staff Alumni

    Right on Carla!
  5. Menchi

    Menchi Well-Known Member

    Avoiding all the negative connotations that are traditionally attached with communism (i don't think that the way it has been practiced is true communism for various reasons), you are pretty much spot on.

    True democracy means that each person votes for who they think best represents them, and in turn, those they choose should be the voice of the people, enacting their will, and balancing the social needs of different groups in the national community.

    True communism means that labour is valued equally, and potential is maximised, for the greater good of the community, rather than the individual... if you will, financial democracy (though its much more complex).

    Unfortunately, neither true democracy or true communism is practiced, and its an interesting thought that freedoms are the biggest damaging factor to democracy. If you are free to create and amass wealth, free to live your life how you want, with no restrictions, you are also free to use that freedom to influence the way decisions are made. But without a system there to exploit (and the balance of different influences, different desires of different parties), those able to exploit would be even more able to, as there would be no-one to stop them.

    Dont quite know what i'm getting at, except one thing. That practiced democracy doesn't work well, thats a given, because those in power are able (and very willing) to exploit it for personal gain. But being given more freedom, means that more people can be exploited... but the problem with practiced communism, is that given no freedom, people are just as exploited by those with the power to ensure that there is no freedom.

    So, the problem isn't theories of society and politics, it is, as with so many things, the problem that people want power, so they can abuse it, which is something existant in absolutely any form of governance structure, as well as any lack of it.
  6. Seano

    Seano Well-Known Member

    Back last January I watched a DVD by a crew that call themselves 1 Giant Leap named What About Me -

    One of the memorable quotes came from Noam Chomsky who said something along the lines of 'The <foundation?/essence?> of democracy is the engineering of consent.'

    Some might question the degree with which 'engineering' by the media and politically warped education systems affects the way 'educated' people vote, but all the evidence one could need can be found in the advertising budgets of 'democratic' political parties. If it got them nowhere, they wouldn't be spending so many millions of taxpapers' money to drum the message so hard into the electorate's heads about what nice guys and gals they really are deep down in their little pollie hearts.

    Personally, I reckon Chomsky was looking through rose coloured glasses in a way, because after the votes have been counted and the new government sworn into office, the 'coalface' of democracy returns to the 'engineering' of computer records on weekends when nobody's there to notice. If they get caught out because you have the original papers to show them how someone fudged the data, they turn to ignorance and refuse to even look at the documents, and say things like 'I think I'd like you to leave now or I'll call security.' That's today's democracy. Toe the line until they change their mind and make you toe another one.

    At the front-line, what they tell you one day they forget the next, and so no matter which party you vote for, the one that won or the one that lost, it makes no difference to the mindless basket-weaving skills of the cretin at the front counter.

    At least with communism, you might not be so penalised because of the way your face happens to look. I am not an animal. I am a human being.
  7. Zurkhardo

    Zurkhardo Well-Known Member

    The irony of your statement is that what you're calling for could only occur in a free, democratic society, one you have held to be equivalent to an oppressive communist one. Talk to anyone who endured a communist regime and they will disagree with that comparison. What system of government do an overwhelming majority of the world's most successful nations use?

    I understand your point, but you're underestimating the upward mobility afforded by a democratic society. There is far more opportunity and self-empowerment in democratic societies than elsewhere and that fact cannot be ignored. Yes the system is flawed (like any other) but borrowing from what Churchill once said, democracy is the least bad system. What would you have in it's place? What's worked better?

    Besides, the critique your making seems to pertain more to society and psychology, not politics. It's not our democracy that's the problem, it's our own mentality.
  8. Mikeintx

    Mikeintx Well-Known Member

    I just reread your post OP and realized I added my own bias in as I was reading and do not agree. For some reason my mind changed democracy to "left wing liberal nut jobs are similar to communists" lol ;)
  9. Seano

    Seano Well-Known Member

    One obvious similarity seems to be the 'top-down' approach that both employ, as opposed to a 'bottom-up' approach that maybe more in line with some form of 'tribal democracy' if only by the size of electorates.

    The way it goes across the world now, the main power is held by a few national empires; both 'communist' and 'democratic', with entities like the UN at the international level beyond that, which give some nations more power on 'lesser' foreign nations.

    Moving down the line, we have state or provincial governments with the powers to govern less important matters that federal aren't interested in, and local councils to manage the garbage collection in your neighbourhood.

    What if it was organised the other way, so that the most important democratic vote was for a team of local representatives within a small electorate of 1,000 to 2,000, so that everyone could easily get to know personally the politicians that they vote for?

    To organise the cohesive unity of the states, provinces, nations, regions, continents, etc., those elected representatives then become accountable for a subset of their colleagues to govern the states/provinces for a couple of years, and likewise the state/provincial parliaments then elect a similar subset for the national government, and on from there to the extent of the Solar System.

    Back home in the local neighbourhood, we get one vote for the candidate/s we wish to elect to represent ourselves and the thousand or so people that we are likely to meet at the local shops or the school or at the cricket match on Sunday, and just leave it to those locally elected and trusted reps to do their jobs, so no need to cast a donkey vote for a pollie we have never met in person and wouldn't know the essence of their personal character.

    In the way that both communism and so-called democratic systems both encourage similar sorts of national dictatorships, that is the common flaw.
  10. morfea

    morfea Antiquities Friend

    I think, actually I'm very sure, there has not been a communist country, yet.
    Not in the Marx's sense, not an opression-free, classless society, as Marx envisioned it - "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs." It might be an utopia, but that's what communism is.
    I had lived half my life in socialism, one party, no democracy, free education, health service, universities, transport and books for school-children, etc. It was far from perfect, but a lot better then this corrupted mix of old socialism and 18th century capitalism.
    I'd love for my grand,grand,grand...children to live in (true) communism one day.
  11. Mikeintx

    Mikeintx Well-Known Member

    And this is the problem with all of these theories.... in a vacuum perfect world communism would be ideal, but in reality it would never work.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.