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Do I want to stop?

Forgotten_Man

Well-Known Member
#1
I guess I can say that I have managed to experiment and figure out that the drinking is what causes me to actually feel suicidal. I am not sure why I keep drinking. After all. I do not actively think about wanting to kill myself after just one night of not drinking. It is bizarre, and there are all the other things that I feel when I am not drinking either. I once read an article about how people felt when they did not drink, and I can say that I feel everything they mentioned. I am more productive, and I feel better, it seems like there is more time in the day. Plus, as I said, I am not suicidal. Overall I feel much better when I am entirely cleansed of the alcohol. However, for some reason, I keep on hurting myself. I guess I do not want to feel those benefits?

Maybe that is it. I am not someone who wants to feel good. I feel like I need to want to kill myself continually? I do not know, and it is just kind of strange. It is not like I hate being more productive. I feel a little weird, especially on the weekend. Still, overall it is not a bad feeling to do something from 7:00 am to 10:00 am and realize that it is not even the afternoon as opposed to just sleeping all weekend long and having barely half a day to do anything. Everything is easier when I am cleansed as well. Yet I go out and buy the alcohol.

I wish I could identify why I feel the need to be suicidal I do not like wondering what I will do with my cats after I kill myself. I also do not like being angry at my cats because they are the only thing keeping me here. I just wish I could figure out how to stop drinking. What is it about not feeling like crap that I hate so much? Maybe I need some things to do when my mind starts wandering to drinking. Maybe I need to actually find something to live for? Maybe I just need a mate, not that I could afford one. I do not know I just wish I could identify the right thing to do and I will be able to move on with my life.
 
#2
Have you tried going to an alcohol recovery group?

There are probably some people who can identify with having some of the same struggles, and they may be able to identify some ways to help you not drink.
 

Holding my breath

Well-Known Member
#3
I guess I can say that I have managed to experiment and figure out that the drinking is what causes me to actually feel suicidal. I am not sure why I keep drinking. After all. I do not actively think about wanting to kill myself after just one night of not drinking. It is bizarre, and there are all the other things that I feel when I am not drinking either. I once read an article about how people felt when they did not drink, and I can say that I feel everything they mentioned. I am more productive, and I feel better, it seems like there is more time in the day. Plus, as I said, I am not suicidal. Overall I feel much better when I am entirely cleansed of the alcohol. However, for some reason, I keep on hurting myself. I guess I do not want to feel those benefits?

Maybe that is it. I am not someone who wants to feel good. I feel like I need to want to kill myself continually? I do not know, and it is just kind of strange. It is not like I hate being more productive. I feel a little weird, especially on the weekend. Still, overall it is not a bad feeling to do something from 7:00 am to 10:00 am and realize that it is not even the afternoon as opposed to just sleeping all weekend long and having barely half a day to do anything. Everything is easier when I am cleansed as well. Yet I go out and buy the alcohol.

I wish I could identify why I feel the need to be suicidal I do not like wondering what I will do with my cats after I kill myself. I also do not like being angry at my cats because they are the only thing keeping me here. I just wish I could figure out how to stop drinking. What is it about not feeling like crap that I hate so much? Maybe I need some things to do when my mind starts wandering to drinking. Maybe I need to actually find something to live for? Maybe I just need a mate, not that I could afford one. I do not know I just wish I could identify the right thing to do and I will be able to move on with my life.
I can definitely relate. You are in a cycle where you don’t actually want to feel better and drinking is a form of self harm because you know it will continue the cycle of depression and suicidal thoughts. Is it, do you think, that you feel you don’t deserve to feel better? In some weird way do you think you deserve to feel that way and so drinking allows that to happen? I do the same but with pain medication. I deliberately take 5/6 strong prescription pain meds knowing that I am deliberately harming myself. I use alcohol on top sometimes to enhance the reaction of the meds but the reason for doing it is because I don’t feel I deserve to be happy or well. I’ve been told that I am self destructive and until I am able to think I am worth caring for then I’m not going to get out of the cycle. At the end of the day we are the ones who have to make the decision to drink or not. If you can somehow decide that you are worth fighting for and deserve some compassion, not from someone else but from yourself then perhaps you will find a way to be happy. Don’t know if this makes sense.
 

Wispiwill

Well-Known Member
#4
I can relate (although I don't actually drink). For me it's usually that I feel like I need to be punished and that's what I'm doing. As Holding my breath said - you feel that you don't deserve to feel better. Is there something that you feel that you've done wrong? Something that you feel you need to atone for? Does any of that make sense to you?
 

Holding my breath

Well-Known Member
#5
I wonder if there is a common theme for lots of us where we feel the need to punish ourselves. The need to cause harm which perpetuates the bad thoughts and feelings. When I get asked why I feel the need to be punished I never really know and I guess until I can identify the reason behind it, it will be difficult to resolve. I usually say I don’t feel as if I deserve to be happy or that I’m not worthy. Everyone else deserves it far more than I do. I wonder how many of us feel the same way?
 

Forgotten_Man

Well-Known Member
#6
@Wispiwill @Holding my breath I can definitely find a lot of reasons as to why I would want to harm myself. For starters I can see a noticable decline in my work quality because I am taking advantage of the who... thing... as I will call it. I work for the state and have a non-permanent position and my state announced shortfalls and furloughs and my boss has told me he wants to extend the duration of my employment but I do not have the official contract. I am lying to my doctors about my health. Those are just recent events things that make me feel like I should be punished. The other main reason is I feel that the space, resources, and job I take up could be put to better use by someone else. All I do is drain away these resources. So that also makes me hate myself and want to feel like crap. I guess I wish I could just be removed from society I bet I would be happy if I could just live in the forest and never have to see or speak to another person ever again.
 

Holding my breath

Well-Known Member
#7
@Wispiwill @Holding my breath I can definitely find a lot of reasons as to why I would want to harm myself. For starters I can see a noticable decline in my work quality because I am taking advantage of the who... thing... as I will call it. I work for the state and have a non-permanent position and my state announced shortfalls and furloughs and my boss has told me he wants to extend the duration of my employment but I do not have the official contract. I am lying to my doctors about my health. Those are just recent events things that make me feel like I should be punished. The other main reason is I feel that the space, resources, and job I take up could be put to better use by someone else. All I do is drain away these resources. So that also makes me hate myself and want to feel like crap. I guess I wish I could just be removed from society I bet I would be happy if I could just live in the forest and never have to see or speak to another person ever again.
It looks like the things you mention here that you feel are reasons to harm yourself are actually things you have done to deliberately harm yourself. Living to your doctor is a deliberate act of self harm. You say the quality of your work has gone down, although your employer wants to keep you on so he must still be happy with your work. Feeling a drain on resources shows how much you don’t value yourself. You need to know that you do matter, you are important and you are enough. You have as much right to be here as everyone else. Try to go gently on yourself, I know it’s difficult but try to do one thing for yourself tonight. Tell yourself you are worth it.
 

Wispiwill

Well-Known Member
#8
Ok, so why are you taking advantage of the situation? Why not do the work to the best of your ability? What stops you from doing that? Do you think that, maybe, you're sabotaging yourself because, deep down, you don't believe you'll succeed at work and you want to have an excuse to point to (something you can blame yourself for rather than ending up feeling that you failed because you're not good enough generally and going down THAT rabbit hole.)

Why are you lying to your doctors about your health? That might be part of your self-destructive streak - not seeking help is common in that situation.

What better use do you think someone else could make of your job? If the only thing you can think of is that they'd do a better job than you, then we're circling back to the first thing you mentioned.

But just as importantly - those all sound like recent things but your behaviour seems to be more long term. So... what started it all? It might help if you can work out how long you've felt this way.
 

Forgotten_Man

Well-Known Member
#9
I lie to my doctor because damaging my health became my active form of killing myself a couple of years ago. I am working on reversing it, not because I want to live longer I just hate having these knee issues. I am also tired of doing the social worker therapy routine with my doctor. Normally I lied about feeling suicidal because it is just too much work and I did not want to get committed or anything.

I think getting laid off so many times over the past 6 years has been taxing on me. I mean I have had my current job for 3 years, but I know it will come to an end and with tax revenue shortfalls that maybe sooner rather than later. I know that my weight and size affect my ability to get a new job as well. Not that I blame people. I know that I am solving complex problems and bugs but at the same time I just do not feel like I am getting as much work done as the other employees and I seem to take longer on things that I think should be simple fixes. Plus my boss never talks to me so that is kind of annoying. If I could only find a way to motivate myself to work like I have in the past that would make things so much easier on me.

I would not be surprised if I was self-sabotaging myself. Part of me has always just wanted to sell all my stuff and then become homeless or something. I mean I cannot do that because I have cats. However, I have had the thought of just living on the streets waiting to die. Well that or getting like a trailer or van to live in. Then I just go to work and go home, and do nothing. I have felt this way for a long time. My sister's cats are getting up there in age as well so who knows how long I will keep this up.
 

Wispiwill

Well-Known Member
#10
What's wrong with your knees?
I can understand not wanting to be committed. Is there no middle ground, perhaps? Give him an idea of what you're feeling but not the whole of it so that he can give you some help but not risk being committed?

So you think you're not doing a good enough job because you don't feel like you are - not because of anything anyone has said. As to your boss not speaking to you - they tend to only talk if there's a problem (in my experience anyway). Being ignored by bosses is usually a GOOD thing.
As to motivation - what motivated you before?

Ah the old 'curl up and die' feeling - I know it well (although mine doesn't bother with me selling stuff or anything). But again, that shows that this is long term. Are we talking years or decades? Is this from childhood or later? If you can try and identify when, it might give you a clue as to why.
 

Forgotten_Man

Well-Known Member
#11
Sometime last month I had issues with my knees where my left knee felt like it was going to dislocate and freaked out. The best way to avoid such things is to not be as heavy as I am. I have been doing okay at the weight loss I just need to figure out when it will be safe to go to the gym.

The reason why I do not tell my doctor anything is because I will just end up lying to him one way or another. I would be wasting his time as well as my money to go see him to lie about what I am doing to get better. You know when I am not getting better. I can get the same rough information and advice on this forum which is why I tend to come here or go to other forums when I am trying to duct tape up my issues to help with other issues.

I am well aware that I am probably right on track and that a good chunk of the blame can be placed on my co-workers who do not do things required to move my work along. The problem is it is reminiscent of a time when my company was not finding new work for me and was not given work and I had nothing to bill and eventually they just sort of gave up on that aspect of their business and I lost my job. Another hard part is thinking about what I am going to say I accomplished during the year.

The selling everything part of my plan is more of back up. You never know when something might strike your fancy and you will want to live. So if I choose to just become homeless I can sell all my stuff and then have that money in case. Otherwise I can sell all the stuff and give it as kind of a refund to my mom for wasting money on raising someone who killed himself. Plus then the family does not have to deal with all my stuff. I just give all the retirement and money I have to my mom and hope she finds that to be reasonable recompense for the money she wasted on a loser like me.
 

Wispiwill

Well-Known Member
#12
Maybe you could start some gentle exercises at home. Something easy and that won't tax your knees.

Fair enough. At least you're trying.

Not sure I can help with that. Not really something I have experience of. As to what you can say that you've accomplished - again, can't really say other than things like saying a specifically difficult task you managed or something along those lines. Hard to give suggestions in that kind of thing without specifics. Sometimes it's more about the wording than anything.

You don't sound like a loser to me. Lost, maybe, but that's very different.

Again you haven't said when you think you started feeling like this. If you don't want to talk about it, it's fine. I get it.
 

Forgotten_Man

Well-Known Member
#13
I do have some physical therapy exercises, but I have been lazy about doing them. Generally, when I get to bedtime I am too unmotivated to do anything. Even when I am sober for a couple of days I just have bouts not having any motivation. I have excuses as to why I cannot do them, but they are just excuses. The main reason is my knee does not feel like it needs them anymore which is not a good thing to think about. I will start doing them again. I just need to get myself back into the forcing myself to do things.

My feelings of being worthless started about 14 years ago right around when I was getting close to graduating college. I had accomplished the last thing I was told I had to do and there was nothing left. I still have the uhh method with me today. I still regret not doing it then but I have just not had the courage to end it. Then eventually the feelings were further exacerbated when I was galling into a niche career path, which could have been lucrative provided the tools didn't die. However, if it did die I would be back to entry level. Then I had a string of layoffs and eviction threats. Not to mention the constant nagging of from my mom about all the stuff she does not approve of me doing with my life. Plus there are tons of other things that happened like I have not updated my website in a while I always find an excuse to not do that. I do not beat my new games or my old games. I just sort of sit around counting the seconds till I get to go to bed and fast-forward to be a couple hours closer to death. I just have no motivation to do anything not even exist. I see no point in any of it, especially given how things have gone for the past 6 or so years. I always wonder if there is a way to brainwash myself to get rid of the analytical part of my brain and just be your average emotional thinker. Then I could see value in having friends or romantic partners and starting a family. Sadly, outside of a traumatic brain injury, I cannot find a way to stop thinking the way I do.
 

Wispiwill

Well-Known Member
#14
It can help if you make the exercise a regular part of your routine day. Something that you do at the same time each day. Then it becomes a habit.

I had accomplished the last thing I was told I had to do and there was nothing left.
The last thing you were told you had to do? Who gave you the list? Is it possible that you can add things to the list? Things that YOU want to do rather than someone else. Sounds like you've been living for someone else and now that you've done what was asked of you, you don't know what to do with yourself. The simple answer to that is to start living for YOU.

The lack of motivation and energy definitely sounds like depression. Have you been diagnosed with that? (just curious).

I always wonder if there is a way to brainwash myself to get rid of the analytical part of my brain and just be your average emotional thinker. Then I could see value in having friends or romantic partners and starting a family. Sadly, outside of a traumatic brain injury, I cannot find a way to stop thinking the way I do.
Ironically I find I do better when I'm being more analytical rather than emotional. I can see the logic in looking after myself and actively doing things far more than when I'm emotional and just can't see the point in trying only to fail.

If it helps, logical me says that death is inevitable. You don't have to run towards it, it will come to you regardless. So why waste energy chasing something that will find you anyway? Why not take the time that you have to see what else there is in life before that chance and CHOICE is lost to you, possibly forever? Besides, anything you do to hasten the end has the possibility of causing you pain and leaving you in a worse situation than you are in now. Why take that chance when it's already an absolute certainty that you WILL die at some point. And you have the added advantage that, in all probability, it will not be considered your fault, thus relieving any burden of guilt from any friends and family that you might have at that time.

Logical me dictates that I live. It's emotional me that doesn't.
 

Forgotten_Man

Well-Known Member
#15
The last thing you were told you had to do? Who gave you the list? Is it possible that you can add things to the list? Things that YOU want to do rather than someone else. Sounds like you've been living for someone else and now that you've done what was asked of you, you don't know what to do with yourself. The simple answer to that is to start living for YOU.

The lack of motivation and energy definitely sounds like depression. Have you been diagnosed with that? (just curious)..
Yes I was just following the life that people said I was supposed to lead. I go to school, I go to college, and then I get a job. I had all that before I graduated college so I figured what is the point in wasting away for another 50 to 70 years. I can say there were other things that I did experience over the past 10 or so years that I was not told about, however, those things are not worth the cost and probably never were. So I really think I have experienced everything that I can.

I have never been formally diagnosed. I have seen no real reason to go to a psychologist. However, you are right I do exhibit all the signs of depression so I guess I do not need a formal diagnosis. As far as I can tell there is no physical test for it either. Even if I did get a diagnosis I would likely not do anything with it. What is there to do with it?
Ironically I find I do better when I'm being more analytical rather than emotional. I can see the logic in looking after myself and actively doing things far more than when I'm emotional and just can't see the point in trying only to fail.

If it helps, logical me says that death is inevitable. You don't have to run towards it, it will come to you regardless. So why waste energy chasing something that will find you anyway? Why not take the time that you have to see what else there is in life before that chance and CHOICE is lost to you, possibly forever? Besides, anything you do to hasten the end has the possibility of causing you pain and leaving you in a worse situation than you are in now. Why take that chance when it's already an absolute certainty that you WILL die at some point. And you have the added advantage that, in all probability, it will not be considered your fault, thus relieving any burden of guilt from any friends and family that you might have at that time.

Logical me dictates that I live. It's emotional me that doesn't.
I guess my problem is that the logical part of me can look at all things objectively and come to the conclusion that there is no value in doing anything else with my life. There might have been 20+ years ago. However, things have changed and now everything is just not worth the effort to do. The paths all lead to failure or subjugation. So I ultimately come to the conclusion that the most reasonable thing to do is die and get it over with. All I need to do is make sure that things are good to go and I will not have to burden those who cannot see the patterns that I do.
 

Wispiwill

Well-Known Member
#16
As someone who also hasn't seen a doctor in order to be diagnosed, I'm not really in a position to tell you that you should. It's possible there's some meds that might help. It's also possible that it might have an impact on your work. You might want to check employment law where you are and see if it would protect your job better or not.

The depression is skewing the logic. You cannot say logically that all paths lead to failure or subjugation. Such a statement is vastly generalised. Logic dictates that there must be something that you can do. The probability of someone being an abject failure at everything is so low as to be inconsequential. Not saying it might not take time and effort to find something you can do - but what have you got to lose?

I suppose you could be saying that the effort/reward factor is so insignificant as to be non-existent but doesn't that also extend to the act of suicide? The unknown quantity of a result - either successfully completed or not - has to be taken into account as well. You cannot be certain that it would be successful and if not, what damage might be done to yourself thus making your life even less bearable than it currently is. You can look at probabilities and, for most methods, those are disturbingly low.

And then there's the uncertainty of what happens should you be successful. There is no reliable data to say what happens after death. It's possible that all is over with but it's also possible that it's not. What if you're simply exchanging one life for another? Who's to say that what happens in this life doesn't affect what happens later? What if, instead of making things better - it makes things worse?

Logic tells me that there is no need to rush towards an unknown factor. It will come at some point anyway. Why not wait? You won't be waiting forever. I can guarantee that.
 

Forgotten_Man

Well-Known Member
#17
My logic minimizes or straight up removed ideal scenarios. It is good to see the potential good aspects. However, when too many of those paths rely on external factors being ideal the less likely they are to come true. Especially when outside factors need to be ideal and current times have shown that current times are not ideal.

The foundation of my desire to die is to cease to exist. So I take a little faith that if I do die I will no longer exist or be. I do not want to exist at all. The worse possible outcome is I continue to exist and I continue to suffer. In my eyes that is the worst thing, you can do to me. I understand that I cannot control what happens in reality after I die. Which is why I have been throwing around the idea of selling all my stuff. At minimum I can assume it is easier to deal with money than to ask people to deal with my leftover crap.
 

Wispiwill

Well-Known Member
#18
I agree about ideal scenarios. They're statistically improbable and can, therefore, be discounted as irrelevant. I'm simply saying that the probability of a successful outcome to any attempt is lower than I feel comfortable with. I would prefer a sure thing (or as close as can be). The odds of someone ending up damaged and in a worse situation is higher than the odds of actually getting the outcome you desire. That's why my logic tells me to wait.

What you want is for it all to stop. That's what my emotional self wants. For everything to stop.

Logical me has one word to say to that. Entropy.

On an other note - I had to deal with the stuff my parents left behind when they died. And yep, money is definitely easier to deal with. Be aware that in some countries you can give gifts of money (there's usually a maximum) and it doesn't count for estate taxes as long as you live for a minimum length of time after the gift. You might want to consider that. It depends upon how much money you have to deal with. Something to think about anyway.
 

Forgotten_Man

Well-Known Member
#19
Yes I am aware that if I fail I will be worse off, in general, so I will just have to make sure that I succeed. When it comes to things involving working with nature it is easier to get the sure thing I am looking for. However, I still have my kitties to take care of and I know how hard it can be to rehome them so I am here as long as they are here. That is going to be another couple of years at least because of how healthy one of them is despite his age. I just know that things are bad when I start getting annoyed by that fact.

Thus we come back to the beginning, I just need to stop drinking and start working out again. I need to exchange my addiction for booze with my addiction for something else. I did notice that when I was super focused on beating a game or watching an anime I did not feel the urge to drink. I just need to make sure that I eat when that happens. I tend to forget to eat on the weekends if I am super into something.
 

Wispiwill

Well-Known Member
#20
I can understand that. I tend to do the same thing with my kid (although they're not grown up and that was goal post so to speak).

Have you thought about trying to get focused on health? Healthy eating and exercise can be very consuming.
 

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