Do you believe in a higher power/source - why/why not?

[Walker]

personally i see no reason to believe in a god, if everyone here, brought up in the modern world had never heard of the concept, who can honestly say they would conclude on their own that there is a divine being?

THIS right here.
If, today, we had no books of wisdom, Bible, Quran, Sutras, Talmud, Vedas, etc etc ... then we would have no concept of there being anything "more". We could develop that we *want* that for ourselves, because people want things innately in life (such as love or comfort) but would we look for it towards "something godlike"?

People wrote these books and passed them along. Bhawk here could write one today and in a thousand years it could then be thought of as a book to be followed by people because he was a great person, was brilliant and adored by many. We all came to listen to him speak and now his book is valued by all. Great, look the HawkWord is born and we are all following it.

 

[BlueGreen]

To an ant, a human is completely incomprehensible. Not just that, we're so beyond an ant, they can't even perceive us as they crawl up the side of our shoe. We're totally outside their experience of reality. If you asked an ant if humans exist, he might say, maybe, but he hasn't seen any proof yet, as he dangles from my shoelace. That's what I mean by higher. On the scale of an infinite cosmos, ants and us are at the same level. That's why I say of course there's something higher than us.

Yes, that's exactly how I feel. We are only as intelligent as our brains allow and personally I feel we are a very primitive life form. Who knows maybe in a few million/billion years from now the most intelligent thing on earth will talk about us like we were just crawling out of the swamp. I just don't think we have the capacity to understand the universe as we are now. But I find it fascinating to think about. The few things we know are mind blowing but I sometimes think we take too much as fact the latest discoveries because scientists are often just trying to fit facts to theories. I don't mean that in a bad way, that's essential.

 

[Walker]

Who knows maybe in a few million/billion years from now the most intelligent thing on earth will talk about us like we were just crawling out of the swamp.

Look how we look at Neanderthals. You are probably right about this.

 

[Livelife]

Do you believe that there is something beyond this world? Do you believe there is a power that is the source of life?
I do, because this world is finite and for finite to exist there must be infinity, infinity being the source of the world. I haven't actually worked through what I believe about the infinity although being that the finite would be a creation of the infinite, the finite world would tell me a heck of a lot about the infinite I believe in.
What do you believe? And why? My main question is the why, more than the what.

yes

 

[Modest-Box]

It is hard to prove or dismiss existent of the world beyond. Many individuals and cultures have developed different ideas of the existence of afterlife, and each presents a different pictures.

Some cultures implies an existence of heaven and hell, in which people will be put depending to their actions from the past. Others suggest theory of reincarnation, in which the spirit is being reborn in its new body; commonly an animal body.

Each explanation is somewhat different, and we can't state which one is the true one. In fact, we can't state if any of them is true in the first place.

I'm not trying to say that none of these theories aren't plausible. I'm also not trying to say that "if it can't be scientifically explained, it must be supernatural/paranormal/a God's sign." What I'm trying to say is that there is still a lot of unanswered questions. True, all the questions we face may have a logical answer, but until we'll find them out, we all will be left in speculations and uncertainity.

But this isn't a bad thing in itself. After all, this is why we are asking quertions in the first place: to seek the answers.

I have to admit, I'm not a religious person by any mean, since - and I'll be as kind as I can - I don't feel like this is my cup of tea. However, I do believe that there may be an existence of something beyond what we can perceive.

In fact, there was conducted an experiment if some sort, which made me think deaply about the outside world.

In the early 1900's, Thomas Lynn Bradford have conducted an experiment, to prove his theory of an existence of afterlife. To do this, he've started an advertisement in newspapers in the search of 'spiritual accomplience'; as he believed that he could communicate with the living being after the death, if two spirits would coordinate perfectly. The second spirit in this experiment was Ruth Donar, who contacted Bradford after reading the advert, agreed to participate in this experiment.

After many meeting with Ms. Donar, Bradford came to conclusion that the most logical and efficient way to prove his theory would be commiting a suicide; which he - unfortunately for him - have commited at February 6th 1921, with a promise of returning with information about afterlive.

A week after his death, Ms. Donar claimed that she've contacted with the ghost of Thomas Bradford. This is what he had to say:

"I am the professor who speaks to you from the beyond. I have broken through the veil.

I had woke up and at first did not realize that I had passed. I find no great change apparent. I expected things to be much different. They are not. Human forms are retained in outline, but not the physical.

I have not traveled far, I am still much in the darkness. I see many persons, they appear natural.

There is a lightness of responsibility here unlike in life. One feels full of rapture and happiness."

As I said previously, it is difficult to state how true these words, and the experiment are. Many have claimed that Ms. Donor could lie about the witness of the ghost, but we can't prove or dismiss it as well.

I don't have much left to say to be honest. I may add up something else if I'll have, but for now I'll just leave what I wrote here...

 

[Aurelia]

You know how sometimes brilliant artists are also terrible assholes in real life?

Yeah, that's why they say, "never meet your idols". But luckily, mine is Davey Havok, and he's like the nicest person in the world. 😁

 

[Aurelia]

It's sooooo unlikely that there is nothing out there in all of that that's higher than us, if that was in fact the case, it would mean that there was something special about humanity, and implicit in that would be the existence of a higher power, one with some divine plan that we play an important role in. So when people say that there's nothing beyond and above humanity, they're actually saying that there is:p

I don't think it would mean that there's anything special about humanity at all. Just that we'd be the most intelligently advanced species to date, which is entirely possible. Although, if there's an alien species out there that doesn't have their own version Justin Bieber, they automatically win.

 

[Innocent Forever]

yes

Would you be comfortable sharing why?

 

[Were all together]

My question is, if we were never taught about Heaven and Hell. What would we believe? If a person is never taught something, then they don't know it. Same way with a higher power. I guess it's something you need to experience personally. If you aren't taught something. Then, you'll never know.

 

[Acy]

I have read somewhere - I’m sorry, I cannot remember where - that some poeple’s brains are structured to seek and believe in a HP of some kind. Other people simply cannot “believe” that way. Some people are hardwired to believe that a HP is watching, overseeing, mediating. Other people don’t have the same sort of brain structure.

As for me, the wondrous universe and the small delightful things I see and experience sometimes allow me to believe that somthing bigger than me (than humans) is at work. If it is all science - physics and chance happenings at the right time - it’s still pretty darn amazing! The HP thing is a challenge when it cannot acount for why bad things happen to good people. That’s a dilemma that humans everywhere likely ask about - “Why me? Why my daughter/son? Why my spouse? Father/mother/sibling/relative/friend...?” Almost all “religions” offer a code of good/moral behaviour and the idea to trust that this is life and the HP cares - even if bad things happen. And that the HP will support a person in rough times.

These ideas don’t work for everyone. Many people like to determine their own sense of right and wrong and what will happen if they are not behaving up to their own set of standards. You live here, you die, you are gone. There is nothing more. Others believe that the soul (whatever one wants to call it) carries on in some way...depending on the tenets of one’s religion/philosophy.

One question for me is why is there “suffering” - The way I see it, life is mostly good (not necessarily the circumstances or relationships, but the chance to experience life - that chance is a good thing) and life is challenged by anything that makes us suffer. Not living up to our good potential when we “could” do so, likely adds to the suffering in some way. I think regardless of what I believe, it’s up to me to make the most of the good that life is for me, AND to reduce my own and others’ suffering if at all possible with self-care, caring for others, being kind, doing well by the planet when I can, doing well by myself by upholding my own moral senses. Sometimes, what the HP suggests for bearing with suffering is enough for some people. Others are left angry and feeling abandoned by “god”. It’s all very personal.

Why do I believe there is a HP? Small moments where things come together so perfectly that I cannot figure out any other reason they could possibly happen - and these moments don’t happen all the time. I’ve had moments where the lighting, the sound, the wind, the temperature, whatever/whoever is around at that moment - was just so perfect. And in those moments, I think - “Yup - that’s too many perfect good things making that moment for it to be down to chance.”

A HP for some might simply be one’s own knowledge and insight. That’s fine with me. The sense that we have some standard to live up to that is our best self and that helps the world, or at least doesn’t intentionally or knowingly mess it up more makes sense to me.

I find myself frustrated by those who believe in a HP and want to make everyone else believe in what they believe... that doesn’t fit with my sense of free will. I’m equally frustrated by those who don’t believe in a HP but who cannot respect those who do. I know people irl who call believers “stupid” and “weird” - and I wonder what their moral code is if it allows them to be so judgmental and disrespectful of people who are not necessarily shoving their beliefs in others’ faces. And there are believers that tell non-believers they will suffer in the afterlife. How kind and loving of both sides, eh? Yikes!

 

[Were all together]

I have read somewhere - I’m sorry, I cannot remember where - that some poeple’s brains are structured to seek and believe in a HP of some kind. Other people simply cannot “believe” that way. Some people are hardwired to believe that a HP is watching, overseeing, mediating. Other people don’t have the same sort of brain structure.

As for me, the wondrous universe and the small delightful things I see and experience sometimes allow me to believe that somthing bigger than me (than humans) is at work. If it is all science - physics and chance happenings at the right time - it’s still pretty darn amazing! The HP thing is a challenge when it cannot acount for why bad things happen to good people. That’s a dilemma that humans everywhere likely ask about - “Why me? Why my daughter/son? Why my spouse? Father/mother/sibling/relative/friend...?” Almost all “religions” offer a code of good/moral behaviour and the idea to trust that this is life and the HP cares - even if bad things happen. And that the HP will support a person in rough times.

These ideas don’t work for everyone. Many people like to determine their own sense of right and wrong and what will happen if they are not behaving up to their own set of standards. You live here, you die, you are gone. There is nothing more. Others believe that the soul (whatever one wants to call it) carries on in some way...depending on the tenets of one’s religion/philosophy.

One question for me is why is there “suffering” - The way I see it, life is mostly good (not necessarily the circumstances or relationships, but the chance to experience life - that chance is a good thing) and life is challenged by anything that makes us suffer. Not living up to our good potential when we “could” do so, likely adds to the suffering in some way. I think regardless of what I believe, it’s up to me to make the most of the good that life is for me, AND to reduce my own and others’ suffering if at all possible with self-care, caring for others, being kind, doing well by the planet when I can, doing well by myself by upholding my own moral senses. Sometimes, what the HP suggests for bearing with suffering is enough for some people. Others are left angry and feeling abandoned by “god”. It’s all very personal.

Why do I believe there is a HP? Small moments where things come together so perfectly that I cannot figure out any other reason they could possibly happen - and these moments don’t happen all the time. I’ve had moments where the lighting, the sound, the wind, the temperature, whatever/whoever is around at that moment - was just so perfect. And in those moments, I think - “Yup - that’s too many perfect good things making that moment for it to be down to chance.”

A HP for some might simply be one’s own knowledge and insight. That’s fine with me. The sense that we have some standard to live up to that is our best self and that helps the world, or at least doesn’t intentionally or knowingly mess it up more makes sense to me.

I find myself frustrated by those who believe in a HP and want to make everyone else believe in what they believe... that doesn’t fit with my sense of free will. I’m equally frustrated by those who don’t believe in a HP but who cannot respect those who do. I know people irl who call believers “stupid” and “weird” - and I wonder what their moral code is if it allows them to be so judgmental and disrespectful of people who are not necessarily shoving their beliefs in others’ faces. And there are believers that tell non-believers they will suffer in the afterlife. How kind and loving of both sides, eh? Yikes!

Well said!

 

[Human Ex Machinae]

My question is, if we were never taught about Heaven and Hell. What would we believe? If a person is never taught something, then they don't know it. Same way with a higher power. I guess it's something you need to experience personally. If you aren't taught something. Then, you'll never know.

I think we already know the answer to that. The first humans weren't taught anything about heaven and hell or any other forms of spirituality. Those concepts were generated automatically by their minds. Human beings believe things. It's one of the most central and defining things about humanity. When I say 'believe in things', I'm not talking only about things related to spirituality. A human beings entire concept of what 'reality ' is, is like 99.9 per cent based on nothing but belief. That tiny remaining percentage is what a human being actually encounters and experiences themselves, and therefore knows to be true. Everything else we think of as being real are just things that other people have told us and we that we choose to believe. Doesn't matter whether it's how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, or black holes, or what's on the dark side of the moon, or the existence of France. It's all the same process going on.

 

[MagickLynx]

I believe there is but not what's written by any man in any book. I find it hard to say why i believe there's something, i just do.

 

[moxman]

No. I almost died a couple of times from severe Colitis. (1994) That led to me asking a lot of questions about the afterlife and religion itself. I had questions no one could answer.

I became an atheist and the world to me makes so much more sense to me now. It was like removing a veil and seeing the world for how it truly is.

 

[bhawk]

I think we already know the answer to that. The first humans weren't taught anything about heaven and hell or any other forms of spirituality. Those concepts were generated automatically by their minds. Human beings believe things. It's one of the most central and defining things about humanity. When I say 'believe in things', I'm not talking only about things related to spirituality. A human beings entire concept of what 'reality ' is, is like 99.9 per cent based on nothing but belief. That tiny remaining percentage is what a human being actually encounters and experiences themselves, and therefore knows to be true. Everything else we think of as being real are just things that other people have told us and we that we choose to believe. Doesn't matter whether it's how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, or black holes, or what's on the dark side of the moon, or the existence of France. It's all the same process going on.

I think its fair to point out that the first humans were trying to make sense of the world without knowing much about it. if you never knew any modern day knowledge, you would need to create stories to explain what you see. nowadays, with modern knowledge we wouldnt need to find such stories to explain what we see as the scientific method is far more explanatory about most things. An example is we no longer see mental illnesses as someone being possessed by the devil.
While reality is extremely subjective, surely there would be a "base" objective reality on which we all create our experiences from, and its this that the scientific method attempts to experiment and observe.

 

[dandelion s]

What do you believe? And why? My main question is the why, more than the what.

i have to answer because i was just trying to rush to get my answer down and it has a lot of bad grammar etc. my beliefs are purely my own, attempting to view everything and having a one ansere fits all. i don’t consider my belief more or less valid than any other. first i do not believe in a god like the god that everyone capitalizes the g for. and further i believe that if there were a god with the capital g, itt would be offended but getting a capital g because itt would not feel itt something to be given such an “honor” of superiroity. i use “itt” as a genderless pronoun because i do not believe a god would be of one sex or another and certainly not male over female as if somehow male were superior to female. i find that kind of troubling. and i do not see god to be like a father/parent but actually an entity seeking our help. maybe more like a child in search. i don’t believe in a heaven where we go after we die. i believe that each individual is comprised of a multitude of “spirits” that could even come and go individually over a lifetime and or before and after a living lifetime. spirits are a part and an aspect of the overall higher power and influence as well as are influenced by all else. i believe that our consciousness while not being the same thing eternally is not gone once the body dies but continues on in a spiritly way. spirits being something like the strings of the string theory are the fundamental or more precicely a more fundamental part of the makeup of the universe and the perceptual transitional thing that takes us from the actual “all” from being just a nondimensional to the multidimensional we all believe we percieve. that is i think that all of that we are aware, and more if any more, is totally nondimensional and not even a dot yet by strings existence becomes multidimensional. we exist out of the universe’s desire. our earthly experience is so that the disorganization of all can become organized. our purpose is to spread organization throughout the universe. this is the “why” the fact that we are not actually doing that is due to the fact that apparently our imperfections must be greater than our perfections so we fight instead of advancing. i have written much more about this and explain it better but it takes a lot of writing that i am lacking energy to do. but i do not believe in prayer as if we can ask for help or something and the good father is listening and granting wishes. no. it is our obligation to make “better” more possible for all. ultimately i feel that any belief system depends on faith. science can not ultimately test all scientifically. it has to by its very nature have faith that what it has never experienced still falls under the same rules that science believes what it does know falls under. and further, any one of us are still merely a part way smaller that being a tiny part so how can anyone expect a part to understand the whole? a part only can understand the part. so itt own perceptions are limited withing that limited scope and can only speculate beyond. nonetheless, i still believe but must give way to what will be.

 

[dandelion s]

I believe in something that is higher. Because, of personal experiences I've had in my life. I rather not say why, because I respect the different opinions of others.

to me this answer makes me want to know more what your beliefs are. that would i guess mean we’d have to spend the actual hours in a setting where it is understood that the expression of each of our beliefs is ok and not forcing a point of view of one upon the other. and that occurring debate and even argument is a mutually belief refining thing and not a divisive thing. we each would be respecting each others beliefs following the concept “my beliefs are not in order to offend another’s” and only as all being seen from my own perspective.

 

[dandelion s]

And the idea of heaven is a beautiful one - how lovely to think we could be reunited with those we love. And having some kind of belief system is probably fairly comforting.

yeah, i cannot attach myself to this kind of heaven. i don’t even think i can find comfort in something like this because to me it arrouses so many questions and concerns about if such a thing can in any way exist at all. my thought processes will not allow myself to believe in that.

 

[dandelion s]

I think we're born, we live, we die and nothing more.

but born live die the end does not address that nothing that ever exists simply vanishes. what comprises us as what we are percieving continues on in unknown and unknowable ways from the perspective of what we each are as contained within our human brains.

 

[dandelion s]

I'm just in the mood of arguing it out so either do, or don't... kay?

Inno! i’m a little worried that in your mood to argue, yet requesting do or don’t you are ruling out the argue. i wish so much that you and i and the other participants could sit in a room and do this and yes maybe really argue - even heated at times yet all walk away with a greater unity in purpose and greater diversity in our thinking making the over all experience more enlightening for all.