Do you think racial pride is the same as racism?

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by AsphyxiateOnMisery, Sep 26, 2014.

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  1. AsphyxiateOnMisery

    AsphyxiateOnMisery Well-Known Member

    By no means am I asking this question to start a race war. Thus, any negative comments toward other races in this thread are highly discouraged (not to mention would be breaking the rules of this forum). So, that aside, I'm seriously interested in your opinions on the matter. Personally, I don't think that valuing one's own race, as long as you're not expressing hate toward other races, is the same as being racist. I think most people have been brainwashed into thinking that the only groups who are allowed to express any kind of racial pride are minority groups, and "white" or "Germanic" pride automatically makes you a bigot. Call me crazy, but I think that's slightly disproportionate and hypocritical.
     
  2. Butterfly

    Butterfly Pokémon Master Staff Alumni SF Author SF Supporter

    No, I don't think it is the same at all. I think everybody should be allowed to celebrate their race and culture. But I have seen cases where racial pride has gone completely over the top and has indeed become racist towards others and have been the target myself which was very unpleasant.
     
  3. justMe7

    justMe7 Well-Known Member

    They are sorta different. Like anything, use it in moderation and pick your moments. There's nothing inherently wrong with identifying with your Nation, or community or Colour of your skin if that's what floats your boat. But don't fool yourselves either. Be proud in something but don't use it as a weapon. In the end.. most of it's just a facade, unless you enforce it. But then it's just a made reality inside of what we define as life. Just my opinion.
     
  4. Viktor

    Viktor Well-Known Member

    We are all miracles in the universe :) But people doesn't see it much and think their race is better than other.
     
  5. HarleyTwin

    HarleyTwin Staff Alumni

    Absolutely not - it is a part of self-pride. However,when it spills over into feeling racial superiority, THEN that is a problem and that is not longer racial pride, but is swiftly turning into racism. No race is better than another just by race and race alone. While cultures may be different and have a few things that could be sorted out better (such as lack of human rights in some cultures) that is not a reflection on being neither superior or inferior.
     
  6. CNikki

    CNikki Member

    It depends how you have this said pride for your race. It's okay to be proud of where you come from with your customs and whatnot, but if it interferes where you push other people aside with their customs and think you're better than them then that is racist.
     
  7. Terry

    Terry Antiquities Friend Staff Alumni

    I think there is a difference between patriotism (love for one's country) and racial pride, which conjures up racial superiority.
    I love my country but rarely, if ever, give a thought to my race.
    Given that most of us are a hotchpotch of mixed racial genes anyway, it seems silly to not just think of us as human.
    I, for one, have English, Irish, Jewish, French and Jamaican genes, and that's only the ones I know about.
     
  8. AsphyxiateOnMisery

    AsphyxiateOnMisery Well-Known Member

    How fine of a line though do you think there is between pride and a superiority complex, if there is one at all? If you value your own race, then wouldn't there have to be something that you value your race over (ie. other races)? If I value, for instance, people who have Master's Degrees, then wouldn't that automatically mean that I value someone with another degree or none at all a little bit less? And if so, does superiority automatically coincide with hate?

    Well, a love for ones country is obviously completely different from racial pride.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 27, 2014
  9. Prinnctopher's Belt

    Prinnctopher's Belt Antiquities Friend SF Supporter

  10. AsphyxiateOnMisery

    AsphyxiateOnMisery Well-Known Member

    Could African Americans, then, be racist for taking pride in their own race? Is making February ''Black History Month" racist? Granted, it's technically supposed to represent the efforts and success of the Civil Rights Movement more so than actual racial pride...but for a lot of people that's not the case.
     
  11. Prinnctopher's Belt

    Prinnctopher's Belt Antiquities Friend SF Supporter

    No, because it isn't about pride. It's about raising awareness of African-American history since it had been systematically suppressed from American textbooks and culture for centuries.

    I don't "take pride" in a race. I think it is racist, even if the intent isn't there.
     
  12. FMyLife

    FMyLife Chat Buddy

    This has been a weird subject for many as the topic of black history month has been a pressing subject in the US and has raised awareness for certain racial prejudice. If we were to have a white history month, then yeah, unfortunately it probably would raise the question of racism and the same with any other race. I really hate to say it but we live in a time where history heavily plays a part in how we view people from many backgrounds. Being proud to be white automatically makes you a supporter of slavery and many other oppressions that were laid on american indians, blacks and any other that was oppressed by greed during the old days. Being proud to be german (one I have dealt with) makes you a hitler supporter and a jew hater. But its okay to be proud of your black, native american, or jewish, and that is okay because your ancestors were oppressed and alienated due to background.

    That being said, i am a man of people. I love all people, no matter background, sexual orientation, beliefs, religious views. But I think there is a serious double standard when it comes to being prideful about where you come from.
     
  13. Prinnctopher's Belt

    Prinnctopher's Belt Antiquities Friend SF Supporter

    I see racial pride as a way to unbalance an objectively equal species, by degrading or inflating the ego and/or reputation of another as "the best race". Racism.

    I think back to a popular tune from James Brown imitating true life... "say it loud...I'm black and I'm proud!" as a contrary response to a culture in America that had belittled, beaten and rejected all that is associated with being black. To what legitimate response is "white pride worldwide"?

    Why not celebrate accomplishments of individuals and be proud of those individuals without regard to their so-called race?

    When I accomplish something, I'm doing it as myself. The very very very last thing anyone should care about is that I was part African, part Irish, part Native American, etc. etc. I accomplished those feats, not the Bantu, not Ireland, not Scotland, and not the Apsáalooke nation. Stop reducing me to a classification I don't believe in as being relevant in the 21st century.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 27, 2014
  14. AsphyxiateOnMisery

    AsphyxiateOnMisery Well-Known Member

    That's why I said that it is supposed to represent the successes of the Civil Rights Movement, or as you said ''awareness of African-American history''. Many people, though, happen to see it differently. They do equate it with racial pride, rather than history. Consider, for example, entertainment media. How many comedic sit-coms on cable TV tend to portray African-Americans as being prideful of their race, and make racial remarks (in the form of a joke) directed at white people, and the audience finds it funny and harmless. Whereas if the tables were turned, it would be racist.

    FMyLife, thank you, my point exactly.
     
  15. NYJmpMaster

    NYJmpMaster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    I do not really see a connection between "patriotism" and "racial pride" - Patriotism or love of ones country has not basis in race - there are many "races" of americans and all can be patriotic. To me those are very different things.

    Pride is a difficult word in this context- It would imply (to me just my thoughts) "I am glad I am white" in a context that white is better. I really cannot see how you can do that without being racist on level. It is nt the neo nazi extremist form of racism perhaps, but in some ways it is more damaging because it is not even acknowledged as being racist. On the other hand, it would be nice to think it was possible for people to be content with themselves as they are - regardless of color, sex, sexual orientation, physical attributes, religion etc. I am not sure what the word is that means it is okay to feel good about yourself and who you are without that meaning you feel superior to somebody that is not "that thing".

    So far as black history month, that is not "for black americans" - it is for everybody. It is history, American History. I think all Americans should be able to take pride in the topics and people that are the focus of black history month (or equally some self reflective as a country shame where appropriate). As noted above, it came about primarily due to the lack of inclusion of a lot of very significant people and events in "conventional" texts so many Americans of all races lacked an accurate knowledge of events in our history.

    To answer your original question - yes I think racial pride is (even if not intended) is racist/racism on some level.
     
  16. AsphyxiateOnMisery

    AsphyxiateOnMisery Well-Known Member

    Pride is a difficult word in this context- It would imply (to me just my thoughts) "I am glad I am white" in a context that white is better.

    Would ''I'm glad I'm black." or "I'm glad I'm Asian", or "I'm glad I'm Lebanese" imply the same thing as "I'm glad I'm white" does to you, though? That's why I asked the question earlier...Using an A = B = C algebraic approach,

    Pride = Superiority = Hate?

    Seems a bit of a reach in a lot of aspects to think of it that way. And I agree that black history month is perhaps ''meant'' to be for any and all Americans who supported/continue to support equal rights regarding race, but that's not even close to being implied in the name. They didn't call it "Civil Rights Month" or "Racial Equality Month"...they called it "Black History Month". Which implies that there is a strong focus on a particular group of people.
     
  17. FMyLife

    FMyLife Chat Buddy

    While the intent for it to sound that way isn't there, to some it will come off that way.

    IN the past, for me to say I'm proud to be German automatically means that i am a supporter of hitler and the holocaust, which isn't the case at all.

    FOr someone to say I am proud of my white heritage also implies that they are proud of the history. even if there is not correlation, there is defiantly a bias.
     
  18. AsphyxiateOnMisery

    AsphyxiateOnMisery Well-Known Member

    I'm not German, and I'd even go as far as to say that I think Hitler was extremely intelligent in a lot of ways, but that doesn't mean I support the Holocaust, or that I hate Jews. Hell, my grandfather is half Jewish, which technically makes me 1/8 Jewish, so if I were in Nazi Germany in the 1940s, despite my blonde hair/green eyes, I'd be dead too. Nevertheless, I stand firm on my opinion. And saying you are proud of your heritage, whether it be German, or whatever, doesn't mean that you're proud of every single thing that they've ever done.
     
  19. Prinnctopher's Belt

    Prinnctopher's Belt Antiquities Friend SF Supporter

    One doesn't have to be hateful to be racist. It merely means that you see high value based on race alone, and it's something I disagree with as a valid belief system. I'm not valuable because I'm part x, y, or z. I'm valuable because of the kind of person I am, which has nothing to do with my being part x, y, or z races.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 27, 2014
  20. Freya

    Freya Loves SF Staff Member ADMIN

    While I sort of see what NYJ is getting at with the "I'm glad I am X" implying that X is superior, I do not really agree. I am glad I am a woman (not a man). I do not think that women are superior (or inferior) to men. I think they are different - I happen to like being female. There is nothing sexist about it.

    I am glad I am English - I like England. I have no feelings about white or black or Asian or whatever, but if someone was glad they were white/black/Asian/Hispanic/whatever I would not assume that meant they considered their particular race superior - just that they were proud to be whatever they are because they recognise the good things associated with being that thing.

    I do not think that pride of any kind needs to equate to a feeling of superiority (though it obviously sometimes does). Just an acknowledgement of the good.
     
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