Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by boo, Sep 3, 2010.
Like what the title says...
yeahh... but I'd rather believe in unicorns!
Has to be fantasy, or at least low-grade mythology with a liberal dose of allegory.
Its all built of a collection of stories....and when you examine them closely, its difficult to find anything remotely factual whatsoever.
As for this god person....to quote Richard Dawkins..
"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
Regardless of how much is fantasy or fact, there are some decent passages and general ideas, one specifically about treating others as you would like to be treated that are useful. But I feel that this is more a mattler of logic than religion, though since it is in the bible, it gives that source at least a touch of crediblity.
I believe there's some truth to everything, so partially based on fact.
Hmm. Well i say it is based on actual events so yeah i think on facts. Idk how to explain really but i have more of a FAITH than i do a RELIGION. Religion seems to have become all about rules and laws and striving to be something that you may never reach. My FAITH is different. Its more like a relationship. Its hard to explain really lol
Well.. It is fact. Because a religion is a beliefe and a beliefe is something you Believe to be true. Which means you are accepting it as a fact and living your life accordingly to this fact(s), or strung together, a beliefe. The beliefe spreads and en mass rules and guidelines are embued, and then spawns religion, the network of hope and progress contaiminated(or essential to progress?) by the desire for self dominence and control, thus manipulating the beliefes to fit the religional code, instead of the beliefe freeing the religion to newer hights. And so human thought creates a fantasy idea or aspect, and makes it a part of the beliefe(fact) to produce a manipulated and driven religion "fact" that the (blind)masses will "follow".
So, I suppose it depends from what point of view. essentially, religion in my point of view is based off of a fact of the believer. But some of those "facts" have been twisted in some religions, and so some peoples facts are "fantasy". but at the whole of many religions, I believe they are at one with "facts." .. from their point of view I suppose.
I think believing in something doesn't make it true. We, humans are very naive and can be easily be convinced of many things.
yeah I'm not talking about the nieve people, I'm talking about the true believers in things we don't understand. I don't know if they are true or not, all i know is what has happened and is in my life. People will touch with different aspects of life that I have never touched with, and perhaps they have touched with something that I have never percieved. I can't exclude all beliefes to false except for "science" since Science is merely a 1 step process explaining itself every step of the way in an every growing belief/rational. A beliefe in something else may connect them to a aspect of exsistence that science has not reached yet, but perhaps will do, and explain that aspect in a scientific nature. Still the pivot point where science adn beliefe meet can be totally different, and a person in a beliefe may continue to exclude sciences explanation because they can also see something beyond sciences perspective that includes the explained aspect through science.
This is hard to explain without drawing it out. Basically, somethings may look nieve and backwards, when really it's the definition and perceptional dipictions of those with beliefe that can blind people of scienctific fact to the scope and depth that those with beliefe are in tune with. So, in truth, those without beliefe who define believers as backwards and nieve could be just as nieve to their point of view as they are to a more (current time) rational.
Basically a concept of infinity would suggest that there is no one path, but a chosen path. At the current state we are at atleast. Every topic needs a crazy point of view
Fantasy is great, we believe in love, we believe things can get better, we believe people care, so why not believe in God, or fairies? How will you get through life if you can't lie to yourself or other people?
Thing is I can sit here and write this, expressing my thoughts, beliefs and opinions, but surely what is more 'real' is the feeling of my fingers pressing on my computer keyboard. And that should be more important to me I guess, but then if even typing random characters is more real than anything I have to say, then what's the point?
Hell we even believe in despair :smile: guess you could say it's all about lying to yourself to feel or experience more. Good/bad make your choice lol Couldn't you say that whatever anyone believes in is a lie in itself then ziggy? Even in despair, it revolves around an emptyness which implies a longing for a "whole" or understanding or feeling. So wouldnt that imply since a feeling(like love as you say) is a lie, that a feeling of despair related to not having something else, is just as big a lie as love, or any other piece of our own puzzel that keeps us going? Or knocks us down?
Typing, or doing something in the moment that relates to us is real. So is the beginning of life and death for us. Death is the end of our exsistence as we percieve it. but for the other person, when we die, their life is still existing. So them typing on a keyboard is more real to them then the coming adn going of our existence. Doesn't make u or me less or more in everything. It's just a perceptional choice, and I think beliefe-religion is a guide of perceptional choices for ones life. Not a rock reality.
Ok I'm going to get a bit random now, but if I have a ten pound note and say it is worth 2 five pound notes. What I'm essentially saying is one piece of paper is worth two bits of paper. (Which isn't 'true' as the person with 2 notes has twice as much paper as the other person). It's just a lie that everyone agrees upon, to enable us to live this life. It's like when people are friends, or in love or part of a church, it's simply a lie we agree on, to argue that it isn't true, is the same as arguing that your money is just a worthless bit of paper.
Sure I hear you. Every association and connection we have made is a choice. One choice accepted by the masses or group. Like accepted social behaviors. they're all aspects we have chosen to be "normal". Normal in itself is a chosen state, besides the natural states of our bioligical bodies. But even in that, those chosen states for science are limited the our current perceptional understandings. 10 years from now, something that is concrete in concept will be seen in an entirely new light. Friendships, relationships, perceptions, understandings. We conclude a series of events, thoughts, feelings, or what have you into a accepted definition. Using those definitions we conclue with a "beliefe" or chosen way of life or way of percieving something.
All these perceptions and choices are a created aspect that we use as tools to further understand and grow. Some fall into the misconception that they have created such "tools" that are so vast in concept that they can understand anything in the universe if it is shown to them. Those "tools" are created by us, accepted by us, and built upon by us so we can create new ones that might hopefully lead to somewhere or something new or whatever.
Which is what manipulation is all about
*edit* life is as interesting or as non-intersting as you want to make it.
:grrh yawn, yet another thread where we can all poke fun at the believers :dry:
it's getting OLD!!!
It's funny how some people need to define fact and fiction for other peoples lives eh. Fuck who cares Live and defend your life, doesn't mean you have to rip someone elses apart with the rational you've created.
I've don't know whether God exists or not but I own a cat. The point is my cat is really special to me, and people may say "oh it's just a cat the world's full of them she's nothing special" and they may be right, But my cat is really special to me, and people should be glad for me. I think people can argue about whether religion is true or not, but when people have found something important and meaningful in their lives, people should be pleased for them.
I know people argue that you shouldn't force your beliefs on others, but if I find something that helps me, like going on long walks, I like to tell people about it. Of course you may say "Well I go on long walks and I still feel shit", fair enough, you have to accept everyone is different at the end of the day. It should be so simple to say "this works for me, what works for you?" and learn and benefit from the experience instead of resorting to arguments. Never happens though.
I recall a church minister from when I was a teenager explaining that faith is just that — faith — belief in something for which we have "no concrete proof".
I haven't taken sides in this issue in a while. I think I'm agnostic. Not totally an atheist, but not a follower of any one specific religion.
If the message is to help others and to do no harm to the Earth or to others, then I don't fuss over who it is who suggests that. Seems to me in my wilder moments, they might all be from the same source with different names and dress codes. :dunno:
Oh i'm sorry, thank you for pointing it out. Next time i'll make it more obvious with my intention. I'm here asking a perfectly normal question in hope of some informative responses. If you don't like the thread... you know where the "Go Back" button is?
Right... by making this thread i was totally trying to change your perception on things. I was asking a question, from which obviously got smoke coming out of your ear. I wasn't trying to define squat diddly doo, i was just asking a question.
I'm not trying to start a fight-- but just think; honestly...
If you believe in something and have faith, then sure, it becomes true and real for you-- but in the grand sense of things it doesn't matter how much you believe in something that you cannot *see* with your eyes, you will never SEE it in reality. You can imagine it, you can believe in it but it does not become fact.
I believe in faeries and unicorns and aliens, but I have never SEEN any of these things, there is no physical evidence that any of these things exist and they may not be true or real at all-- but it's fun to imagine that they do exist. Just because I believe in them does not mean that they ARE REAL or FACT based. They are NOT.
It's great to have things to believe in! I think everyone SHOULD believe in a variety of things. These fantasies give us hope and inspire people to be and do good things, to go out there and experience the world, to be creative, to strive for something, to dream... That is in no way; a bad thing.