Do you Think you Deserve to Suffer? Or that People get what they Deserve?

[seabird]

I agree with the idea that applying the word/idea deserve to a person's life is illogical.

How exactly can any human beinng be in possession of the wisdom, data & complete emotional balance as to know what someone should or should not have or be? Isn't it massive hubristic nonsense?

What I've seen is that sometimes - those who are embedded in a tight social network (which can include religion, sport, political beliefs, wealth, etc.) feel quite sure they have the right to speak their opinion & the right to label their opinion as truth.

 

[Lady Wolfshead]

I apologize, I know you posted this awhile ago but I've just now seen it and it piqued my interest enough I had to rc

Do you Think you Deserve to Suffer? Or that People get what they Deserve?
There is something in my brain that believes what I deserve and what the rest of the world deserves are not the same thing. Interestingly I also do not believe I am unique or powerful or somehow above or below the rest of the world's population, but I'm disillusioned to some extend to hold myself to different set of standards and beliefs. For myself I absolutely believe I deserve to suffer for mistakes I've made, for my failure to live up to my own expectations of how I should live (not how other people should live). I take the bad things that happen to me, and I view them as some sort of deserved punishment for my failures in life.

My view of the world at large? I strongly believe that hard work doesn't necessarily produce success. A person can work hard their whole life and still be right where they started, or even worse off. If you start at the bottom hard work is often required to gain any success, but your hard work doesn't guarantee anything. If you start at the top success is given and doesn't need to be earned. You can loose that success by life circumstance or any number of things, even if you start at the top, but there is no work required to earn it at the start.

If karma worked my abusers wouldn't be successful. It's really as simple as that. The corrupt and bad people of the world wouldn't have power and the good and pure of the world would. In reality the good and pure tend to have to work much harder for things because they aren't taking any shortcuts and stepping on others to get there.

I feel like I typed this out a bit jumbled, but maybe someone can make some sense of that brain dump.

Nick I'm so glad you posted. I really think this topic is important on SF because I constantly hear people bashing themselves using the language of meritocracy (I deserve punishment, I don't deserve success, I'm lazy, etc). I wondered if I should use the word "meritocracy" because I know many people are unfamiliar with it and it might sound like jargon or too academic. Unfortunately there's no word that really conveys the same thing. "Just World" is similar, though.

What you say about judging yourself more harshly than others is so common among people with depression and other psychological issues. Our compassion extends to others but we have internalized the "just world" and feel that if we are suffering we must deserve it.

You absolutely do NOT deserve to suffer and even if you have done bad things you have probably suffered emotionally for them. And I know firsthand that you provide support to others here as you have to me, and if Karma worked you should definitely have a Karma credit.

I don't believe in Karma in this world unless it is enacted by humans. Like you say, if Karma were true your abusers would not be successful. One of my closest friends died alone (he was on another continent than me), in poverty, ill and in pain at age 36, and his abusive mother and the older brother who molested him are living happy and financially secure lives. Bad people get away with things ALL THE TIME and yes, we wish there were Karma but often there isn't.

It would be a better planet if we would stop waiting for Karma and God to make things right, and we did it ourselves.

 

[Lady Wolfshead]

Hi Lady

I read your first post. Well conceptualized and written. You are right America is full of brainwashing to keep the wealthy rich and the poor down. Because you can’t be rich if no one beneath you. I am angry and tired of these remarks about work hard and you can be successful. I did that for 45 years. What I saw was good old boy network helping each other, women selling out to move up, careers destroyed by narcissistic bosses. . . Then there are preachers and motivational speakers that make money off tapes books and conventions to give people hope. In the end . . . Spouses keep each other afloat. And families. If you have them. Please everyone do not pass judgment on those struggling without. It was not their fault necessarily. Thank you for showing the light Lady.

Exactly. The wealthy and powerful no longer need swords to keep us in line, they have disinformation and brainwashing.

I had a conversation with my brother last night who is extremely self-educated about politics and people in power. He was talking about a Canadian corporation that is buying up land in America (because land in Canada is more expensive) - 800+ homes last year. He said we are creating a medieval system of land ownership where people will have no choice but to rent their homes for their entire lives. He said governments should enact legislation that all rent is rent-to-own - investors will still make money but people paying rent for 50 years will have something to show for it. Kind of like paying a mortgage - the bank makes plenty of money but at least part of each payment goes to the principal so you are earning equity.

Some countries have laws that everyone can own their own home. Even as a teenager, I hated the idea of paying rent. Later I had to of course, but I didn't mind so much if it was a homeowner and I was renting a basement suite, or if the building was owned by a family who treated tenants decently. But a corporation - forget it! A corporation has no compassion. The only purpose is to make money by whatever means necessary.

And it is pure luck that my husband and I were finally able to buy. We were both working in an outlying city with cheaper prices and a friend of mine got approved for a mortgage so I thought "what the hell?"
However before that we had managed to get into a co-op which is a form of social housing where you buy shares and pay a monthly housing charge instead of rent. Individual residents don't get government subsidies unless they apply separately (we didn't), and there's a wait list. But because the co-op itself is non-profit, the monthly housing charges are usually significantly less than rent. And most co-ops allow children and pets.

 

[DearestDaydreamer]

What to take from this? Stop beating yourself up. Stop blaming yourself for your hardships and focus on doing what you can to better your own life.

Tbh, I for the longest time believed that everything bad that happends to me as deserved (as thats what been taught to me) So I never 'whined' about the pain to others. After all, I have such a nice life, I need to be humble.

Over the years though the line between humble and self deprecating began to blur. I downplayed the pain I felt, downplayed my achivements, I would push myself to a burnout just to not be satified in the end

I'm still trying tl not be hard on myself, tell myself that "Hey, even though you've done some things before, that is not who you are now. You are better, you won't let your past define you."