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They do go out of date and become ineffective for sure.

And by the way, for anyone here who may be thinking of using sleeping pills as a method of suicide - dont even bother. Yes, I am speaking from experience.

In fact, even as an aid to sleep, their benefit is limited. Take them long enough and you'll soon find you can't sleep at all without them. There are better ways.


How are you feeling?. If theres something going on - anything at all - try talking about it here okay?. It can help more than any pills, believe me.

*encouraging poke*

cheers Gabriel - why would you recommend NOT taking sleeping tablets as a means of signing off? I think if you take enough they should do the job.

As for 'talking', my situation can't change through talking - it is beyond my control. Thanks all the same for the offer. However, one of the reasons I came here was because the subject isn't taboo - and you can talk about it openly without fear of being patronised or some such. Personally, I think suicide is a very personal choice and should be respected if that is what a person decides.
Why would I not recommend it?.

Here's why:

Becoming temporarily concious laying on a hospital trolley and feeling like I was going to slowly choke to death, feeling a tube being pushed down my throat.

Waking up on my bedroom floor with the stench of stale vomit filling my nostrils, laying face down in my own stomach contents.

Spending days - weeks - feeling so very ill that the suffering I was experiencing before I took the pills would have felt like a welcome relief in comparison to how I felt then.

I could sit here and give you a hundred reasons.

But the best reason of all is that I'm alive. Naturally you dont give a shit. Life to you is something painful and dark, not something to hang onto.

Maybe you're right - maybe your situation cant change. I dont know anything about it. My situation hasn't changed all that much. And I never talked to anyone either; I still haven't. There didnt seem any point. But I really wish that I had. If only so that I would have been recognized, that someone would see me. I'm not going to try and persuade you that you have something worth living for. I know that when I was sitting there with a bottle of pills in my hands, there was nothing anyone could have said that would have made a difference. I was so utterly deluded, so convinced of my decision, so arrogantly sure it was the 'right thing'. But I will ask you to try - to try and tell us why, so we can understand. So that you can be recognized, so that someone see's you.

And by the way, for anyone here who may be thinking of using sleeping pills as a method of suicide - dont even bother. Yes, I am speaking from experience.
Everytime I tried this way, I had bad luck and was found too early ... :(
In fact, even as an aid to sleep, their benefit is limited. Take them long enough and you'll soon find you can't sleep at all without them. There are better ways.
Since 6 years I have maximum of sleep between 2 or 3 hours/night. Then I will be awake totally sweated, cause of nightmares. With sleeping pills sometimes I sleep between 4 or 5 hours. But that case is seldom. My live is worthless. So I don´t care about to be addicted or not.

Today I was by my doctor. He wanted to send me into a psychiatry or I should take lithium. If I would deny to take lithium, he wanted to involve a judge :-( I accepted, but I´m not amused about eating "batteries".

Now I´m in treatment for about 10 month. The only thing which changed, I feel loaded 24h/day. I took another medication, nothing changed.

I give up. I don´t care about some pills.

I know how I will do it the next time. When I´m absolutely sure, it will work, I will start.



Well-Known Member
Yeah, really. OTC sleeping meds do not work. I don't speak of knowing this from experience because I would never try a suicide method without knowing with certainty it would work. I've read plenty about what kind of meds can kill me and can't. I don't know how things work in the UK but here in the US the FDA controls substances that could be fatal. all things you can get here in the US over the counter probably won't kill. They could kill you as everyone reacts different to meds, but more than likely won't and the meds that could kill a person are heavily controlled and not easy to get unless you have a legitimate medical reason for them

OD on sleeping meds is likely to give you kidney and liver failure and probably put you in a coma for who knows how long, but probably won't kill you. I personally wouldn't try to OD or anything, even in the chances of it actually working were high. If the method would fail you could end up with permanent kidney, liver, and brain damage.

And yes, ALL medication does have an expiration date and losses potency over time.

Anyway, I guess I am going to ask the question I think you were hoping someone would ask when you first made this post and that is - So what circumstances in your life are causing you to consider suicide? Go ahead, spill your guts on it, that's what this forum is for and it really can make you feel better.
OK, my situation is this. I've got MS - don't leave the house except to go food shopping for 2 hours a week. Reason? I'm embarrassed to be seen in public. I walk like I have two tons of lead strapped to my legs AND as though I were walking on a moving ship.

I'm married to a man who isn't interested in me (has repeatedly been with other woman), has told me he hasn't any energy left to work at the marriage - not that he ever did - and I've lost absolutely ALL confidence in myself.

Between the husband and the disease I am reduced to a pile of human shit, and even shit you can flush down the toilet. I'm not looking for sympathy, and I'm not playing the poor me card. I am however calling a spade a spade. I don't have a life, I have an existance and one which has now seen the last flicker of light go out.

I don't see suicide as a cop out, but a WAY out. Why should this not be a viable (not to mention understandable) option when you haven't anything to live for? I used to be a someone, now and for the past 10 years or so I've been a nothing. Really..a nothing. I used to have a high flutin tootin career but the MS put a stop to that. In fact when my idiot doctor sent a letter to my then employer telling him of the diagnosis, I got the sack. After that I got told employers didn't want dorks..in so many words.

So, I don't work, I don't go out, I don't socialise - preferring isolation to humiliation - I do have a husband who no longer loves or wants me, I do have to struggle through each day and I do have a future of hell to look forward to.

Basically and this is the bottom line, once the marriage is over, I've no reason to carry on struggling through each day and living this rat's life. That's why.


Well-Known Member
Well, I couldn't imagine how your life must be as I haven't walked a day in your shoes, so I'm not even going to pretend to sympathize.

I will be honest, a little part of me has always supported euthanasia...I try to deny it as it seems so wrong to think killing a person for any reason would be justified...but the fact of the matter is, in some cases it is. I'm not saying that euthanasia would be justified in your case and could never know without walking a day in your shoes. So don't interpret that as me telling you to go out and commit euthanasia, because that is not what I am doing.

The best advice I suppose I can give to you is to at least see a therapist or doctor and talk about being treated for depression. I'm not saying you have depression at all, but if you would have clinical depression, the depression can cause you to feel worse then you really are. I don't know much about MS so don't know about the pain involved. I do know there is a boy at my university with MS and he comes across as one of the most optimistic people I have seen on campus despite his circumstances. So maybe you wanting to die is really depression telling you that; and you should at least get that checked out by a doctor or shrink before deciding to commit euthanasia, I don't think you would have anything to lose by trying.

Also, some people can play the hand they were dealt really well. I'm not saying you could apply this to your situation but I will tell you this story anyway.

I always thought the worst thing that could happen to a person would be to be blind...until I met a blind man. This guy was 22 and went blind when he was 17. He was very happy with his life though. His attitude was while he didn't pity himself at all, he knew everyone around him pitied him and he exploited their pity. He said when he first started doing that he would feel a little guilty, but he said now it’s great. He is waited on hand and foot and is perfectly happy with exploiting people’s pity.

That isn't such as bad thing to me. He was dealt a shitty hand in life, as you were. But he uses the hand he was dealt to his great advantage. I guess the moral of the story - to me anyway - as no matter how shitty of hand you are dealt, there is always a way to use it to your advantage.

Probably not the greatest inspirational story to tell, and not much help either, but that’s the way real life is and there is nothing wrong with exploiting other people’s weaknesses to use to your advantage so that you can have a reasonably happy life.
Everytime I tried this way, I had bad luck and was found too early ...
I was found too, but not very early. And on two ocassions I wasnt found. And it wasnt just sleeping pills - this isnt the place to talk about methods of suicide but I can tell you I have plenty of practical experience in MANY sorts of drugs as a method of suicide. Overdosing is about the crappest, most ineffective method way of topping yourself you can imagine. But its a fantastic way of screwing up your internal organs and making your life even more f*ucking unbearable than it already was. (sorry for swearing btw - I normally dont, but I just felt like it. Ive always been incredibly polite, never saying what I felt. Its a relief to feel able to say what I think at last. So fuck it! :laugh: )


Thankyou for telling me. After having spent 38 years not being heard. I just wanted to aknowledge that I suppose; to be able to say 'I heard you' . I'm not sure why, it's hard to explain exactly, but it's important to me, so thankyou.

I'm glad you haven't asked for advice because I'm very crap at giving it.

But I just made a cup of coffee *sips*

Eurgh. Dont know why I bother, I dont even like it that much. Anyway. I'll just ramble on for a while I suppose, Im fairly good at that!. Normally I just ramble to myself though!.Heh.

I'm slow at typing though sorry. I'm not used to it. I only joined this forum recently and I dont normally communicate on the internet - still, better than actaully 'talking' cause I'm even worse at that!. I only leave the house maybe once every month or two (and only because I have to) and its been that way for most of my life (Im 38 now)- especially the last six years, so please excuse me if my communication may be a bit odd. I dont know, i think it's okay I suppose.

Its funny in some sad way - when I read your post I felt something a bit like envy!. You've been married. I always wondered what it would be like to have someone; you know, a partner. I feel so much better these days but I still get lonesome from time to time. A couple of nights ago I couldnt sleep and I was laying in the dark, hugging my pillow to my chest and pretending it was another human being - I just wanted to know what it felt like. Pillows cant hug back of course!:laugh:

Still, I know that often our partners can be a source of suffering rather than happiness. I know that. My dad (and my stepdad) continuously screwed around with other women. I even have half-brothers and sisters Ive never seen!. All across Europe apparently!. They were both a couple of low-lifes.

Anyhow, I dont know that I should say this but from what you've said it sounds like you'd be better off without him. A crap husband can damage your self-esteem more than any illness I think.

Claire, can you stick around for a while you think?. Just a little longer at least. I dont know you and you dont know me, but I dont want you to go, not yet. Even if just for one more day, can you hang on?. Yeah I know - life will probably be just as shit tommorrow as it is today, so whats the difference?. But just one more day.

I just had a wave of sadness wash over me, it's wierd. I'm going to make some tea I think. I want to think, and I'll write some more in a little while if thats okay?. Oh and by the way, you can PM me if you want.

Gabriel, for someone who doesn't 'communicate' a whole lot, you sure do a fine job of it in here. :tongue: Claycad - that's some story about that chap who lost his sight. Like you said, everybody deals with things in their own way - some of us better than others. I'm the first to admit I'm total crap at playing the hand I've been dealt with. I'm fully aware there are people out there who have it a hell of a lot worst, and manage a damn sight better than I do. So I'm a wuss...what can I tell you.

Gabriel, it's not really a matter of hanging on for one more day. When the husband comes home this evening, we're going to sit down and have a 'chat' - and you know what that means don't you. Thing is I've been bellyaching about us staying together for ages 'cause we are not really together, more like cohabitating. Now that he's actually said he's lost interest and has no energy, I feel all panicky. Secretly I was looking at divorce as a means of signing off without the guilt - if we're not together, I don't have to worry about the 'after effects' as it were. Now the goal posts have been moved and there may not be much of a choice left in the matter.

Thank you both for sharing your story and taking an interest in my pathetic attempts at communication. One thing I do not want, repeat DO NOT, is to screw up my organs and make a meal out of this. I always saw pills as the easy way out. If I took them, they would not be OTC's but scripts - surely if you down enough of those you're bound to succeed?

I don't know.

Gabriel, my heart went out to you when you wrote about your pillow. I'm SURE there's someone out there for you if you give yourself the chance. But here's the warning - unlike your pillow, THEY WILL TALK BACK :rolleyes: Marriage and relationships in general are hard work. Not everybody wants to actually *work* at them, but instead just expects things to 'happen'. They don't.

I think you had the right idea about a cuppa - I've gone off coffee, so it will be the green stuff ...

Here's to friends and pillows..
*sips tea*

Heh. Its such a terribly 'British' thing isn't it? - drinking tea. Theres some odd belief that having a cup of tea can make you feel better. I heard that once. What a load of crap.

Just another cliche. Somewhere on a par with 'cheer up! it may never happen!' Yeah? well it already f*cking did!. (I'm doing quote well with this swearing business arent I?. Heh - i feel oddly pleased with myself!)

Actually though, tea can be strangely comforting!. Oh God, I'm turning into a cliche!. :laugh:

Anyhow Claire.

Oh hold on, let me get a cigarette!.


I had given up for a long time - I dont really know why i started again. Boredom maybe. Apparently smoking can kill - and apparently thats supposed to dissuade you from doing it. Heh - sounded like a convincing arguement to me!. At least the way i felt then. Not that thats why I do, just habit.

Now I need to pee!. *shifts uncomfortably in chair*

Meh - I cant be arsed going back downstairs. It can wait. Perhaps I should get a commode instead of this office chair!. Hehe.

Right Claire, here goes, I'm going to sit here and tell you lots of life-affirming, positive advice that will solve all your problems!.

Or erm..maybe not!.

I'm sorry your life is so utterly shit, I really am. If there was something I could do, I would. If you can think of something I could do, then I would try. I dont want you to be so unhappy. Im just so sick of it - suffering, in my own life and in others. I'm okay now. My life is totally crap by other peoples standards of living, I know that, but I'm okay. I wish that you could be okay too.


I'm just thinking random thoughts now, memories.

I remember where I lived before, there was a woman lived nearby who was a friend of someone I knew then (when I had some friends!). Her name was Margeret. It was many years ago now. I was in very dire straights at the time financially, and I remember that one day, I got up and went to see if there was any mail (there rarely was - and even then only bloody bills!) and there was an envelope with my name on, and inside was £270.

It turned out that she had raided her loft, and those of a couple of friends, gathered together a boot full of stuff, and had a car-boot sale for me, without telling me. She'd got up at 5:30 am to get a good spot (I found all this out later) and stood there all day, with a mate of hers, and persuaded people to buy her junk! (hehe - people really will buy almost anything wont they?).

I never even knew her - had never even spoken to her before. But somehow she got to know about my situation and wanted to help. I got to know her after that, a little, and found out (though not from her) that she was dying. She had an inoperable tumour. She'd spent many years in and out of hospital, but now there was nothing that could be done. In the brief time I knew her, and the few times I saw her after that, before she died, she would always be smiling. I found it difficult to understand at the time, but now I think I understand a little better at least.

I had kind of a 'troubled' childhood. Well - it was shit, frankly, in too may ways to mention. And I was born with a hereditary disease which, although not life-threatening, was never going to go away. So right from the start, i knew there were something wrong with me which could never be put completely right, so I know what you mean when you say that talking wont make a difference. Some problems just cannot be 'solved', or we dont have the means to solve them.

So much is out of our control isnt it?.

I thought that things would get better somehow, when I was finally able to escape from it all, when I was sixteen, and try to find my place in the world. But you know what?; they didnt. They just kept on being crap.

In truth, things havent changed much. But one thing that has changed is my mind. That belongs to me, and whatever else I have or dont have, I have myself - and so I have everything I need to be okay. Happy? im not sure. Sometimes yes. But anyway, I'm okay. And after so many years of wishing I could just disappear, just be snuffed out of existence, 'okay' is pretty f*ucking wonderful.

*wriggles in chair*

Hehe. Sorry - now I really have to pee!.

I'll make a sandwhich while I'm down there and come back and ramble in a while if thats okay. I dont have any answers I know but...*thinks* oh I dont know. I just think there is a way that you can be 'okay' too. I really believe that. The thing is, do you?. Yeah I know you have MS and your life is shit - Im not talking about that. Im talking about you, not your disease or your present circumstance, but you. Heh, sorry, Its kinda hard to put into words what I mean - I was never much good at that.

Oh and im sorry for being so slow!. You could have written a hundred posts in the time it took me to write this one!. Never mind, I'll post it anyhow. Its not as if I'm giving you any urgent advice thats going to turn your whole life around is it! :laugh:

I'm not sure if i should be on this forum at all. By the time I get back with some 'words of wisdom' (not!) someone might have already topped themselves!. Hehe, anyhow, Its not what im trying to do - maybe Im just trying to let you know, in my own cack-handed way, that there are people who will hear you, and would give a damn about you, and your suffering. And will actually care. God that sounds so schmaltzy! but the thing is though, i actually mean it -I mean I feel it!. F*ck me - Ive turned into Claire Rainer :laugh:

Anyhow, see ya later.


*goes off to pee*


Antiquitie's Friend
yeah they do, and if you're unlucky when you take them you will be sick everywhere, trust me, been there done that.
Gabriel, you do make me smile...you're a breath of fresh air, and I love the way you ramble - long may it last. You've got such a sense of humour and it so clearly shines through. Are you always this way? I feel I can *talk* to you, now I know that sounds weird, but then again, I AM weird...so...

Give up the ciggies...every inhalation creates a gazillion free radicals which eat us alive. I used to smoke - not heavily, 3 maybe 4 a day. Funny thing was I didn't smoke for the first 32 years of my life. Then I had this boyfriend who was a real shmuck and for some utterly STUPID reason I started smoking to annoy him - go figure. Then carried on for another 10 years or so then decided I really didn't enjoy it and why was I doing it then? so I stopped and now can't stand the stuff.

Thing is I was taking all these vits and supplements to try and 'combat' this fucking (see? it's contagious) disease and here I was SMOKING. One of the supps I was taking was antioxidants - which are meant to quench (or kick the arse out of) free radicals. And what was I doing? Bloody smoking and CREATING more of the little buggers (free radicals).

When I think about topping myself, I think about those poor little cells in my body which are going to snuff it. So if there was a way I could keep the cells going, but still check out - that would be ideal.

I too had a crappy childhood - you can read about it here if you like http://poetrypoem.com/cgi-bin/index...sword=&poemoffset=0&displaypoem=t&item=poetry. Had a mother from hell and she set me on the path of pissing into the wind for life. I finally wised up when I was about 40 - that you get awfully wet (not to mention smelly) doing that. Split from home when I was 15, went to Alaska (I'm originally from the States, came over to the UK in '89). Came back, got put into group homes, foster homes, the lot. Still it taught me to be tough...that's part of the problem - I've had to be tough and struggle my whole life, if not with a psychotic mother, then with bastard men, if not with bastard men then with bleedin' MS...etc etc AND I'M TIRED..fed up actually.

That story about Margaret is truly awesome. Unbelievable in fact. There's a book out called 'The Righteous Men' - she reminds me of them. One of the lamed vuv tzadekim (yiddish for righteous men) of the world.

Just got a call from the husband. He parked the car at the station to go into London, came back and some little bastard broke into it - destroyed the passenger window, console, dashboard, the lot. I certainly hope it's a round world - another cliché for you Ms Rayner..lol So, any 'little chat' will not take place this evening as he's now had to drive (one hour) back to the office and won't be home till late.

I spoke with a pharmacist earlier - yep, the pills I've got are obsolete - so they're a no-goer it seems. I will try not to think about it for the next 24 hours - what will force the situation is if things come to a head here at home ..then things really will be beyond my control.

Now *I* gotta pee...this stuff is contagious!
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