Does it really matter when we die??

Discussion in 'Suicidal Thoughts and Feelings' started by TheWr0ngChild, Dec 30, 2007.

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  1. TheWr0ngChild

    TheWr0ngChild Well-Known Member

    Life is pointless, it does not matter who we are or what we have "acheived", we are going to die. When I was at school, I have Asperger's Syndrome and was lucky enough to go to a very good special school, but I never got the point of being educated, praised, non of it, I always saw the bigger picture, no matter what we did, we died at the end of it. I used to do loads of art, music etc before this thought really got a grip of me, then I was like, "pfft, fuck this, I'll be dead in a few years so why carry it on". All people seem bothered about these days is how good they are at things, what "skills" they have, how well dressed they are, who their friends are, when NON of this shit is really relevent in life, the only thing in life that is real, reliable, trustworthy and certain is death, when we die non of it matters anymore, nobody is going to care if you were a businessperson, bus driver, bartender, banker, scientist or whatever when your dead, they might come to your grave once a week to put some dying flowers on top, then they will die, then after a few years nobody will be left who even remembers who you were, your erased, gone, obliterated, even the legacy of lives who actualy contributed to humanity, people like Tesla, Ghandi, Lennon, Cobain, to name a few, people who I suppose left a legacy strong enough to withstand being forgotten, will one day be no more.

    I don't care.

    Why should you.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 30, 2007
  2. gentlelady

    gentlelady Staff Alumni

    I am not so sure our goal has to be being remembered after death, so what is the purpose of life if no one will remember anyway. We all have things to add while we are in this earthly existence. Perhaps it was you that helped to mold Ghandi into what he was. You never know. I guess I don't care if I am remembered after I am gone. Would really rather not be, but to each their own.
    We each contribute to this world what we are able to until our time expires and then someone else picks up where we left off.
     
  3. TheWr0ngChild

    TheWr0ngChild Well-Known Member

    Well I'm kinda getting at how pointless progressing in life in the first place is I suppose. Oh well I feel like shit and don't care anymore. Maybe it's because my existance (sitting on a computer day in day out because my mindset does not permit me to do otherwise really) would not matter if it ended. I serve no purpose, I don't want to, I gave up wanting a long time ago, all it brought me was pain, all I do now is exist in a fake fantasy. Nobody knows, nobody will ever know because I'm so good at covering it up. I like the hurt this brings me in a way, pain was one of the only feelings that survived her (a abusive support worker at a supported housing scheme I lived at when I first left home).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 30, 2007
  4. Nocturnal Ponderer

    Nocturnal Ponderer Well-Known Member

    Hello Tin Woman.

    Interesting topic. I too have felt this way and maybe, sub consciously, this reality is at the root of most of what we do. It probably affects what we do.

    But you're right. What does it matter?

    I feel that what is at the heart of most people is ego. Their over inflated ego. This ego is not based on any reality, because, in essence, we are all exactly the same. Some of us have a talent for things other people do not. Some people are better swimmers, but suck at painting. Some people are extremely good at composing music, but lack good looks. Somebody might have knock out looks and ooze sex appeal, but they lack respect, honour and intellegence.

    But, whatever it is that some people are gifted with seems to go to their head and they somehow feel above everybody else. It is this very insecurity which propels people to over compensate with their attributes which seem to fuel this apparent masquarade of meritocricy, achievement and material possesion. And you're right, what does it all matter in the end?

    So, with this said, it may be worth thinking about finding some joy and peace. Joy and peace come from simple pleasures. Not the need for recognition, or fame, or for people to desire you.

    Some people do get their joy from success, and that is their fulfilment. That is what their life is worth living for. It doesn't matter, in general, I agree with you. But to them it does. The same way as it matters to you to write about it. Some may say what does that matter? But to you it does. The absolute answer would be to do literally nothing, but then that also defeats the object of life. So you've got to do something. But whatever it is is down to you and that is the beauty of life.

    Life is both objective AND subjective. Free will and all that.

    As for seeing the bigger picture, I am TOTALLY with you on that one, and feel so alienated at times. I feel too that most people are so concerned with local and trivial problems, that they miss out on the bigger picture. It is like going to the National Gallery in London, standing in front of one of the most glorious and profound paintings known to man, and focusing on the fact that there is a speck of dust on the frame. The bigger picture is spectacular, if only they would see it.

    There is nothing to stop you seeing it. I urge you to carry on. From time to time you will meet people who are on your wavelength and who will also make good friends. These friends, these revelations are what make life worth living.

    The universe is billions of years old. There are billions of years left. The chances of being born a human being is similar to being a grain of sand plucked from an entire beach. As a human being you have the ability to observe, see, feel, sense, touch, percieve, and a whole host of other things that literally billions of trillions of other life forms cannot. Sure it is a relatively short window, just an eye blink in cosmological terms, but damn what a ride!

    If it doesn't matter when you're dead, it sure matters now, doesn't it?

    I urge you to try one thing in persuit of a new life. Just literally open the door tomorrow morning, and take a deep smell of the morning air. Close you eyes as you do it, and feel the cool air on your face as you do. That is all. Meditate on it, and suddenly you'll feel glad you're alive. Its the very tiny things such as this that start new ways of thinking, and these are simple joys you can appreciate. Every journey starts with the first step.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 30, 2007
  5. ToHelp

    ToHelp Well-Known Member

    Hi Tin Woman! A perfect opportunity for my first post here. You have just painted an excellent picture of the philosophy of existentialism.

    Now, Google variously defines existentialism as a "view that the suffering individual must create meaning in an unknowable, chaotic, and seemingly empty universe.
    [www.let.rug.nl/usa/lit/chap10.htm]

    As well as "a philosophy that emphasizes the uniqueness and isolation of the individual experience in a hostile or indifferent universe, regards human existence as unexplainable, and stresses freedom of choice and responsibility for the consequences of one’s acts.
    [www.strongatheism.net/intro/lexicon/]

    Note, the words "unique," "individual," and "freedom of choice."

    Prolific author Wayne W. Dyer wrote a lot about this and coined the phrase,

    Choice: The ultimate freedom

    Basically everything you said is true. Being an atheist consigned to a godless world with no clear purpose can be literally the challenge of our lives.

    Being prone to depression on top of it all and you have a real dilemma; namely, why put myself through this??

    So I hear you; I recognize and acknowledge the points you make. I'm just hoping like hell there's a God (lol, now there's a funny :)). Either that, or that Deepak Chopra is right and we are each spirits on a journey, learning and maturing as we go, and that our sojourn on planet Earth is but a stop along the way.

    Well, I'm not sure exactly; and yet I do.

    I'll go out on a limb and figure that my single sperm out of the billions didn't survive and make it here for naught.

    Will you concede the following? that it is undeniable that to a great extent we are indeed "the sum total of the choices we have made up to now in our lives."? (Dyer, Your Erroneous Zones)

    Now... supposing you do concede as much. You might say, well ToHelp, your writing is eloquent enough but hasn't come close to answering my question."

    That's because "what matters" is a subjective question. Lord, how I wish I had the faith of the devout. I envy their certainty that all life is divine. As, for the atheist, life is usually what one chooses to make of it; its *meaning* precisely the same.

    Dunno however, if I qualify as a "true blue atheist; the real thing." lol For I still allow in my belief system the distinct possibility that we are each souls on a journey; that a description of "All That Is" may be aptly likened to spokes on a bicycle wheel: Each (of the trillions) of souls is a spoke. And while each spoke is separate, the they all emanate from a single hub.

    Ohhh, time will pass eventually and the universe (this one), ever expanding, will burn itself out. Earth will long have been be consumed by a dying Sun (when a start [our Sun] dies, it essesntially explodes outward). All traces of humankind be erased.

    In an eternity, time is illusion. Anyway--I highly recommend Dyer's book, You'll See It When You Believe It, a seminal book upon many which of the core concepts mentioned are predicated.
     
  6. mulberrypie

    mulberrypie Well-Known Member

    I agree completely.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2007
  7. felodese

    felodese Member

    I think the same way certain times so I have devoted certain time to conclude this dilemma.

    I have concluded(still an on going thought) for my self with that we live to better our selves and the rest of humanity, through our discoveries, impacts on others etc (how ever you define bettering it), and it is this way that makes the past live on. Just think about how people from the past have effected us or you. Most of us don't have a large impact but thats just life I guess. Does this mean we should conclude with saying die for dying? or die for trying?
    (just my own personal thoughts on this)


    Who knows if we all had a similar attitude we might reach a state of immortality in the distance future
     
  8. Oceans

    Oceans Well-Known Member

    Hi Tin_Woman

    I agree with your philosophy on life and your thoughts on dying.
     
  9. ToHelp

    ToHelp Well-Known Member

    Note - this is almost a duplicate; I'd fogotten I had already posted it. Mods plz keep this one though.

    Ahh yes, the purpose of life; Why the Hell AM I Here, an age-old question ever since humanity became sentient.

    Hi Tin Woman! A perfect opportunity for my first post here. You have just painted an excellent picture of the philosophy of existentialism.

    Now, Google variously defines existentialism as a "view that the suffering individual must create meaning in an unknowable, chaotic, and seemingly empty universe."
    [www.let.rug.nl/usa/lit/chap10.htm]

    As well as "a philosophy that emphasizes the uniqueness and isolation of the individual experience in a hostile or indifferent universe, regards human existence as unexplainable, and stresses freedom of choice and responsibility for the consequences of one’s acts.
    [www.strongatheism.net/intro/lexicon/]

    Note, the words "unique," "individual," and "freedom of choice."

    Prolific author Wayne W. Dyer wrote a lot about this and coined the phrase,

    Choice: The ultimate freedom

    Basically everything you said is true. Being an atheist consigned to a (percerveied) godless world with no clear purpose can be literally the challenge of our lives.

    Being prone to depression on top of it all and you have a real dilemma; namely, why put myself through this??

    So I hear you; I recognize and acknowledge the points you make. I'm just hoping like hell there's a God (lol, now there's a funny :)). Either that, or that Deepak Chopra is right and we are each spirits on a journey, learning and maturing as we go, and the our sojourn on planet Earth is but a stop along the way.

    Well, I'm not sure exactly; and yet I do.

    I'll go out on a limb and figure that my single sperm out of the billions didn't survive and make it here for naught.

    Will you concede the following? that it is undeniable that to a great extent we are indeed "the sum total of the choices we have made up to now in our lives."? (Dyer, Your Erroneous Zones)

    Now... supposing you do concede as much. You might say, "well ToHelp, your writing is eloquent enough but hasn't come close to answering my question."

    That's because "what matters" is a subjective question. Lord, how I wish I had the faith of the devout. I envy their certainty that all life is divine and has some ultimate meaning. Because think about think it. For the atheist, life is usually what he chooses to make of it; its *meaning* precisely the same.

    Dunno however, if I qualify as a true blue atheist. You know--"the real thing." lol For I still allow in my belief a distinct possibility that we are each souls on a journey; that a description of "All That Is" may be aptly likened to a bicycle wheel: Each (of the trillions) of souls is a spoke. And while each spoke is separate, they all emanate from a single hub.

    That hub could be "God," could be the genesis of our existence (transcendent of time, of course).

    Ohhh, time will pass eventually and the universe (this one), ever expanding, will burn itself out. Earth will be consumed by a dying Sun. All traces of humankind be erased.

    In an eternity, time is illusion.. To understand some of these precepts, I highly recommend Dyer's book, You'll See It When You Believe It, one of a few seminal works upon which many of the core concepts mentioned are predicated.

    It is easily readable and should be a required work as it delineates and ties togother so many of the ideas of quantum phyisals, metaphyscs. It brings hope and is just fascinating reading.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2007
  10. ToHelp

    ToHelp Well-Known Member

    Ahh. Well in my n00bness, it appears I kinda of double-posted lol. Mods, please retain the latest one as it is actually the final copy.

    Thanks
     
  11. worlds edge

    worlds edge Well-Known Member


    Razors pain you; Rivers are damp;
    Acids stain you; And drugs cause cramp.
    Guns aren't lawful; Nooses give;
    Gas smells awful; You might as well live


    -- Dorothy Parker --

     
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