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Doesn’t matter

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#1
I used to try to argue my logic with others. Try to make them understand why advocating against suicide was inherently selfish. I used to beg and plead with them, hoping they could understand what I was saying, show them that my own life was mine to live, and mine to take. They agreed with the first part, but not the second. They might say “it’s your choice” about whether I live or die, but if I ask them if they have an opinion on what I do with my life? They have no opinion. If I ask them if they have an opinion if I took my own life? They are adamantly against it. They don’t care how I live, but I’m not allowed to die? So it doesn’t matter how much suffering I go through, as long as I’m alive they have peace of mind, they don’t feel guilty, because hey, I’m still alive, right? it can always get better, right? maybe he'll feel good someday, and that one moment of mild contentment is worth the years and years of despair and suffering, right?

now i dont try to argue anymore. theres no point. it doesnt matter. living, dying, it doesnt matter. enjoying life, killing myself, doesnt matter. it just doesnt matter. i lie here and stare at nothing.


nothing stares back.
 

Optimistic Goatman

The woolly enigmatic one
Staff Alumni
SF Supporter
#2
You state this like the problem is just that nobody here gets it.
The irony is that actually, everyone here gets what you're saying, because they've been there too, they're just further ahead, so you don't get it.
That distinction does matter. One is shackling a person's right to be themself. The other is saying it's wrong to hurt others.
If you said that what you wanted to do with your life was blow up a primary school, people would be saying you shouldn't do that just the same, and it would still not be a debate about your right to die.

Hey, if in the end, you decide to end it despite knowing the harm it will do to those around you, or the fact that there is that chance things can improve, that is genuinely your call to choose.
But nobody here is going to help feed into the delusion that it isn't damaging to those who care about you, or that things are as unfixably doomed as you want to see them.
 

Optimistic Goatman

The woolly enigmatic one
Staff Alumni
SF Supporter
#3
At the end of the day, you should ask yourself this.
If you're so obviously right about this, and we're just all too blind to see that truth, why does it matter to you whether we agree or not?
What should the opinion of the ignorant sheep mean to you?
 
#4
Hi. Welcome to the forums. I am sorry you are in so much pain at the moment. Personally, I am a proponent of libertarianism; I believe people should have, to the extent permitted by reasonable law and barring extenuating circumstances, as many individual and economic freedoms as possible. Therefore, I will not dispute that you have a right to do with your life what you want.

However, this ideology doesn't contrast with my other goal - informing responsible action and trying to get as many people as possible to achieve happy lives. The majority of people advocating against suicide are trying to stop unnecessary tragedy. To take one's own life is a terrible decision in all but the most extenuating of circumstances; not only will it scar everyone close to you, there is always the opportunity to make things better. People advocating against suicide aren't trying to take away your individual freedoms and they aren't disregarding the pain you are in, they are trying to get you to seek help and hopefully live a happy life in the future because it is possible for things to get better for you.

You seem to disregard anti-suicide messages as meaningless rhetoric but have you stopped to consider that maybe these people truly want the best for you? They are trying to convey the logical truth to you: things can get better and you should seek medical help if you haven't already.

I hope things can get better for you soon. Sending hugs *hug10.

Again, I do not support suicide, things can get better.
 

1964dodge

Has a frog in the family
Forum Pro
SF Supporter
#5
whatever your issues it doesn't warrant suicide. i know what i'm talking about. i suffer chronic pain and illness and it can really get me down emotionally. if that is what i would concentrate on i'd be finished. but i always find positive things and joyful things to offset it.

obviously work on any emotional or physical issues you have with doctors with therapy or meds as a possibility. then look for positive things and things that can bring you joy. basically try to balance out your life with good as well as the bad. it's about quality of life....mike...*hug*console*shake
 
#6
At the end of the day, you should ask yourself this.
If you're so obviously right about this, and we're just all too blind to see that truth, why does it matter to you whether we agree or not?
What should the opinion of the ignorant sheep mean to you?
That’s the point. It just doesn’t matter...
 
#7
whatever your issues it doesn't warrant suicide. i know what i'm talking about. i suffer chronic pain and illness and it can really get me down emotionally. if that is what i would concentrate on i'd be finished. but i always find positive things and joyful things to offset it.

obviously work on any emotional or physical issues you have with doctors with therapy or meds as a possibility. then look for positive things and things that can bring you joy. basically try to balance out your life with good as well as the bad. it's about quality of life....mike...*hug*console*shake
“Balance life with good as well as the bad” yeah but bad things come by themselves, but good things always come with bad things. That means bad things will always be more than the good things
 

Optimistic Goatman

The woolly enigmatic one
Staff Alumni
SF Supporter
#8
That’s the point. It just doesn’t matter...
It clearly mattered enough for you to restate the entire argument here.
So we responded to the argument you were restating like you were just so right, but the "inherently selfish" people beat you into silence.
If that doesn't matter then cool. We said our part in response to you saying yours.

“Balance life with good as well as the bad” yeah but bad things come by themselves, but good things always come with bad things. That means bad things will always be more than the good things
Seems to matter enough that you're continuing to argue the point, just saying. *dunno2
 
#9
Hi. Welcome to the forums. I am sorry you are in so much pain at the moment. Personally, I am a proponent of libertarianism; I believe people should have, to the extent permitted by reasonable law and barring extenuating circumstances, as many individual and economic freedoms as possible. Therefore, I will not dispute that you have a right to do with your life what you want.

However, this ideology doesn't contrast with my other goal - informing responsible action and trying to get as many people as possible to achieve happy lives. The majority of people advocating against suicide are trying to stop unnecessary tragedy. To take one's own life is a terrible decision in all but the most extenuating of circumstances; not only will it scar everyone close to you, there is always the opportunity to make things better. People advocating against suicide aren't trying to take away your individual freedoms and they aren't disregarding the pain you are in, they are trying to get you to seek help and hopefully live a happy life in the future because it is possible for things to get better for you.

You seem to disregard anti-suicide messages as meaningless rhetoric but have you stopped to consider that maybe these people truly want the best for you? They are trying to convey the logical truth to you: things can get better and you should seek medical help if you haven't already.

I hope things can get better for you soon. Sending hugs *hug10.

Again, I do not support suicide, things can get better.
Seeking medical help? There’s just no point. Being happy? Pointless. Being miserable and upset all the time? Pointless. Movement in general? Utterly pointless. So I stare at the ceiling.
 
#10
It clearly mattered enough for you to restate the entire argument here.
So we responded to the argument you were restating like you were just so right, but the "inherently selfish" people beat you into silence.
If that doesn't matter then cool. We said our part in response to you saying yours.


Seems to matter enough that you're continuing to argue the point, just saying. *dunno2
Express myself, don’t express myself, neither matter. Continue to speak, silence myself so that others can feel better about themselves, neither matter. I speak because the only thing that matters, the only thing that could ever matter, is seeking to find something that matters. Haven’t found anything yet.
 

Optimistic Goatman

The woolly enigmatic one
Staff Alumni
SF Supporter
#11
Express myself, don’t express myself, neither matter. Continue to speak, silence myself so that others can feel better about themselves, neither matter. I speak because the only thing that matters, the only thing that could ever matter, is seeking to find something that matters. Haven’t found anything yet.
So what you're saying.....is that this debate does matter? Because by having it you're trying to find things that matter? But it also doesn't matter because nothing does? But despite it both mattering and not mattering, you're going to keep arguing it like it does matter, while also claiming it doesn't?
Man, must be fun for logic to work that way.
 
#12
Perhaps I worded this poorly. Perhaps it seems as if I implied that I don’t argue because I don’t think people will believe me. That’s not why. I don’t argue because I don’t do anything. There isn’t just “no point in arguing”, there’s no point in doing ANYTHING, and arguing is part of anything.
Maybe you care. Maybe you don’t.

it doesn’t matter
 
#13
So what you're saying.....is that this debate does matter? Because by having it you're trying to find things that matter? But it also doesn't matter because nothing does? But despite it both mattering and not mattering, you're going to keep arguing it like it does matter, while also claiming it doesn't?
Man, must be fun for logic to work that way.
Imagine something that creates itself because it needs to exist so that it can create itself. Simple?
 

Optimistic Goatman

The woolly enigmatic one
Staff Alumni
SF Supporter
#14
Perhaps I worded this poorly. Perhaps it seems as if I implied that I don’t argue because I don’t think people will believe me. That’s not why. I don’t argue because I don’t do anything. There isn’t just “no point in arguing”, there’s no point in doing ANYTHING, and arguing is part of anything.
Maybe you care. Maybe you don’t.

it doesn’t matter
So you're now arguing with me, to make the argument, that you don't argue?
 
#16
The saddest part of all of this, is that it doesn’t even matter that it doesn’t matter. I can tell myself every moment of every day that nothing matters. The thousand screaming voices in my head don’t care. They insist that it matters. They demand that it matters.
 

Optimistic Goatman

The woolly enigmatic one
Staff Alumni
SF Supporter
#17
The saddest part of all of this, is that it doesn’t even matter that it doesn’t matter. I can tell myself every moment of every day that nothing matters. The thousand screaming voices in my head don’t care. They insist that it matters. They demand that it matters.
So some part of you is aware that these things do matter? So maybe there's some merit in not simply dismissing the advice others are giving you.

The solution is not just deciding that it's all pointless. The solution is caring enough to give getting better an honest chance.
 

Optimistic Goatman

The woolly enigmatic one
Staff Alumni
SF Supporter
#18
I think you're kind of missing the point of why people have responded to this thread.
The way you described your stance on the debate in question was by calling everyone who disagrees with you (therefore most people on this site) "inherently selfish", and that you still believe you're totally right, and everyone else is totally wrong, but you just can't be bothered to argue it any more.
But regardless of whether you threw in that last part or not, you still put that idea out there, an idea which plenty of people are going to take issue with and feel driven to refute. You can't just nullify that kind of thing by saying "but it totally doesn't matter though, even though i'm expressing this argument like it still totally matters to me".
 

Walker

Admin
SF Social Media
SF Author
SF Supporter
#19
Corrupt, you've been here for 18 months. You must've gotten something out of being here in all this time or you wouldn't keep coming back. You showed up here feeling bad, presumably, or else some search wouldn't have landed you here. Yet, you're still here. So instead of us telling you why you're still alive, why don't you tell us?
 
#20
So some part of you is aware that these things do matter? So maybe there's some merit in not simply dismissing the advice others are giving you.

The solution is not just deciding that it's all pointless. The solution is caring enough to give getting better an honest chance.
The problem is I can’t care. Can’t summon the energy to even try to care anymore
 
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