Practical Advice EMDR
- Thread starter seabird
- Start date
I haven't but a friend had good results with it. He was dealing with complex trauma from growing up with physical and sexual abuse.
I recently watched a YouTube video about it, where the theory was explained. The way our brains are wired, we move our eyes back and forth when we are walking forward. When afraid or upset we stop moving. So basically if you move your eyes back and forth while thinking about a traumatic experience, this signals to your brain that you are moving past it, and it takes away the frozen fear and hurt, and "distances" the trauma neurologically.
I recently watched a YouTube video about it, where the theory was explained. The way our brains are wired, we move our eyes back and forth when we are walking forward. When afraid or upset we stop moving. So basically if you move your eyes back and forth while thinking about a traumatic experience, this signals to your brain that you are moving past it, and it takes away the frozen fear and hurt, and "distances" the trauma neurologically.
Thank you @Nick, it is good to hear that people have gotten some solid benefit from EMDR. I will be starting with it next week. The hope is to get some control over the ptsd and anxiety and be able to put the trauma to rest in the past.
The description you mentioned is a purposeful, contatructive one @Lady Wolfshead. Thank you.
The description you mentioned is a purposeful, contatructive one @Lady Wolfshead. Thank you.
I am in EMDR currently, and it has definitely helped. I sought it for CPTSD; i.e., my parents were jerks, repeatedly throughout my childhood. There are some more poignant one-off traumas in there, but it was a theme, as well.
Pros:
- You don't need to know how it works or believe that it works in order for it to work (in fact, if you read the literature, we don't really know how it works—just that it works. Yes we have theories, but they are just that). My understanding is not Lady Wolfshead's but that by alternating which side of our brain we use, we engage the "processing" part of the brain, the same part of the brain that functions during REM sleep and helps us process memories (hence why people's eyes go left and right when dreaming). Sometimes when doing the EMDR it feels as if I am in a "dream state," and I even get those twitches you sometimes get when falling asleep. It doesn't even have to be with the eyes, you can tap yourself with your left hand on your left leg, then your right hand on your right leg, alternating; or, some therapists have "tappers" which are like little vibrating boxes you hold that alternate which one vibrates left-right and so one. I think you can even use headphones with a left-right alternating tone.
- You don't need to have as good a relationship with your therapist because the focus is more on the process and less on the relationship.
- You don't need to share or even remember the details of the trauma. In Shapiro (EMDR's founder)'s book to go along with the therapy, she describes a client that remembered only birthday candles and the color red, and only after a few sessions of EMDR did she remember that she was in a car crash with her dad on her birthday—someone ran a red light—and he died in the crash.
Cons:
- It's less relationship-focused so for CPTSD (complex PTSD—attachment-based trauma over time, like if you had shit parents) it will take longer and you likely WILL need a therapist you can build a relationship with. It's really made for PTSD (one-instance traumas like a single car crash or physical or sexual assault) but has definitely helped me with my CPTSD, I have just also needed the relationship component of therapy, too.
- As with any therapy, you still need to find a good therapist. There are shit ones out there for EMDR, just like any other modality. This therapist, the one I am actually making progress with, is my second attempt at finding an EMDR therapist.
There is another approach called "brainspotting" which is similar. Basically all the pros and cons above apply to it, but instead of alternating which side of the brain you engage, it assumes trauma is stored in a particular part of the brain and can be "accessed" by holding your eyes in a certain position. I am not sure the theory behind why that position works. For my two cents I would do either and worry more about finding a therapist you click with than which approach they use.
Hope that helps!
Pros:
- You don't need to know how it works or believe that it works in order for it to work (in fact, if you read the literature, we don't really know how it works—just that it works. Yes we have theories, but they are just that). My understanding is not Lady Wolfshead's but that by alternating which side of our brain we use, we engage the "processing" part of the brain, the same part of the brain that functions during REM sleep and helps us process memories (hence why people's eyes go left and right when dreaming). Sometimes when doing the EMDR it feels as if I am in a "dream state," and I even get those twitches you sometimes get when falling asleep. It doesn't even have to be with the eyes, you can tap yourself with your left hand on your left leg, then your right hand on your right leg, alternating; or, some therapists have "tappers" which are like little vibrating boxes you hold that alternate which one vibrates left-right and so one. I think you can even use headphones with a left-right alternating tone.
- You don't need to have as good a relationship with your therapist because the focus is more on the process and less on the relationship.
- You don't need to share or even remember the details of the trauma. In Shapiro (EMDR's founder)'s book to go along with the therapy, she describes a client that remembered only birthday candles and the color red, and only after a few sessions of EMDR did she remember that she was in a car crash with her dad on her birthday—someone ran a red light—and he died in the crash.
Cons:
- It's less relationship-focused so for CPTSD (complex PTSD—attachment-based trauma over time, like if you had shit parents) it will take longer and you likely WILL need a therapist you can build a relationship with. It's really made for PTSD (one-instance traumas like a single car crash or physical or sexual assault) but has definitely helped me with my CPTSD, I have just also needed the relationship component of therapy, too.
- As with any therapy, you still need to find a good therapist. There are shit ones out there for EMDR, just like any other modality. This therapist, the one I am actually making progress with, is my second attempt at finding an EMDR therapist.
There is another approach called "brainspotting" which is similar. Basically all the pros and cons above apply to it, but instead of alternating which side of the brain you engage, it assumes trauma is stored in a particular part of the brain and can be "accessed" by holding your eyes in a certain position. I am not sure the theory behind why that position works. For my two cents I would do either and worry more about finding a therapist you click with than which approach they use.
Hope that helps!
With trauma therapy, things almost always get worse before they get better. I would really encourage you to stick with it.
Imagine your emotions come out through a funnel. In an individual without PTSD the emotions flow freely. Happiness comes through, maybe sadness, confusion, etc.—whatever emotion comes, is allowed out. PTSD is essentially a stopper in the funnel. It happens when you can't safely process the emotions at the time so you "put a stopper in the funnel." Imagine you're in a car accident. Normally you might feel afraid, scared, mad, confused, sad, etc. etc... but in order to stay alive you might have to call 911. So you put those emotions "on hold" until you've done the things you need to do. You stay calm and tell the operator where you are and what happened. Then, normally, you let them out later—maybe in the hospital or when you get home. In this case (what usually happens) the emotions are let out and you don't develop PTSD. Then you remove the stopper in the funnel and you get all the afraid, scared, mad, confused, sad feelings that were pent up... as well as any that got stuck behind it. Maybe someone brought you flowers at the hospital but you couldn't really feel grateful because those emotions were "stuck" in the funnel. But when you get home you just cry. Why? Coming home isn't sad. You're probably happy to be home. But you have all those pent up emotions that didn't come out earlier, that still need to come out.
PTSD happens when it isn't safe to let out the emotions later, either. So let's say you get home after the accident and you start to cry and your parent starts yelling at you ("Why are you crying!?" or maybe "be a man!" if that applies. Or maybe THEY start crying and you feel like you have to take care of them and you can't feel your feelings). So you KEEP the stopper in the funnel. If you keep it in for more than 30 days—that's PTSD (or CPTSD. PTSD is single-serve, like a car crash. CPTSD is ongoing, like an abusive parent). And you probably struggle to really let yourself feel sadness for the rest of your life, or until the PTSD is treated. And you probably feel pretty numb about other things, too, because there's a stopper in your funnel. Happiness can't really get out, for instance. And your body will try and find all sorts of ways to get the emotions out—headaches, fatigue, dissociation, nightmares, negative beliefs about the self ("I'm bad"), etc. Our bodies are not made to hold that many things in the funnel for that long.
Then when you finally DO get treated for PTSD, all those emotions still need to come out. Not only the ones from the original trauma but all the ones that came after those that couldn't get past the stopper. Depending on how long ago the PTSD was this could be years or decades of stuff pent up. And it sucks. It totally, really, absolutely sucks, feeling all that pent up stuff. And it can take multiple sessions, maybe even weeks or months—again depending on the trauma, how long it went on, and how long ago it was.
Not only those feelings but feelings about those feelings. Maybe sadness that you missed out on what happiness really feels like. Maybe anger at your parents for not letting you cry. Maybe anxiety because the last time you cried you got yelled out. It all has to come out. For me, personally, I've felt a lot of guilt at all the relationships I sabotaged because I wasn't happy in them... even though they were really healthy relationships, my inability to feel happiness aside.
So it all really usually sucks quite a bit because you've never felt a lot of those those and you've certainly never felt them that intensely.
So yea... things are gonna get worse for a while. But then they will (usually) get better. If there is one thing we know, it's that therapy works. There's tons of evidence behind it. Provided, of course, your therapist is using evidence-based practices (which EMDR is) and you have a good relationship with them. Those are the two sort of caveats.
I would ask your therapist what to do with your feelings in-between sessions. There are various exercises you can do to help you manage what comes out in session. One of the early stages of EMDR is called "resourcing" and goes over this.
Hope that helped. Obviously it is 100% your choice but if you do want to resolve whatever's going on then things getting worse before they get better is almost certainly part of that.
Also, unless it's a single-serve trauma, I'd look into getting a therapist covered by your insurance. Paying $150/session for treating CPTSD, which can take years, will get very expensive very quickly. If it was something like a car crash that can probably be done in less than 10 sessions.
Imagine your emotions come out through a funnel. In an individual without PTSD the emotions flow freely. Happiness comes through, maybe sadness, confusion, etc.—whatever emotion comes, is allowed out. PTSD is essentially a stopper in the funnel. It happens when you can't safely process the emotions at the time so you "put a stopper in the funnel." Imagine you're in a car accident. Normally you might feel afraid, scared, mad, confused, sad, etc. etc... but in order to stay alive you might have to call 911. So you put those emotions "on hold" until you've done the things you need to do. You stay calm and tell the operator where you are and what happened. Then, normally, you let them out later—maybe in the hospital or when you get home. In this case (what usually happens) the emotions are let out and you don't develop PTSD. Then you remove the stopper in the funnel and you get all the afraid, scared, mad, confused, sad feelings that were pent up... as well as any that got stuck behind it. Maybe someone brought you flowers at the hospital but you couldn't really feel grateful because those emotions were "stuck" in the funnel. But when you get home you just cry. Why? Coming home isn't sad. You're probably happy to be home. But you have all those pent up emotions that didn't come out earlier, that still need to come out.
PTSD happens when it isn't safe to let out the emotions later, either. So let's say you get home after the accident and you start to cry and your parent starts yelling at you ("Why are you crying!?" or maybe "be a man!" if that applies. Or maybe THEY start crying and you feel like you have to take care of them and you can't feel your feelings). So you KEEP the stopper in the funnel. If you keep it in for more than 30 days—that's PTSD (or CPTSD. PTSD is single-serve, like a car crash. CPTSD is ongoing, like an abusive parent). And you probably struggle to really let yourself feel sadness for the rest of your life, or until the PTSD is treated. And you probably feel pretty numb about other things, too, because there's a stopper in your funnel. Happiness can't really get out, for instance. And your body will try and find all sorts of ways to get the emotions out—headaches, fatigue, dissociation, nightmares, negative beliefs about the self ("I'm bad"), etc. Our bodies are not made to hold that many things in the funnel for that long.
Then when you finally DO get treated for PTSD, all those emotions still need to come out. Not only the ones from the original trauma but all the ones that came after those that couldn't get past the stopper. Depending on how long ago the PTSD was this could be years or decades of stuff pent up. And it sucks. It totally, really, absolutely sucks, feeling all that pent up stuff. And it can take multiple sessions, maybe even weeks or months—again depending on the trauma, how long it went on, and how long ago it was.
Not only those feelings but feelings about those feelings. Maybe sadness that you missed out on what happiness really feels like. Maybe anger at your parents for not letting you cry. Maybe anxiety because the last time you cried you got yelled out. It all has to come out. For me, personally, I've felt a lot of guilt at all the relationships I sabotaged because I wasn't happy in them... even though they were really healthy relationships, my inability to feel happiness aside.
So it all really usually sucks quite a bit because you've never felt a lot of those those and you've certainly never felt them that intensely.
So yea... things are gonna get worse for a while. But then they will (usually) get better. If there is one thing we know, it's that therapy works. There's tons of evidence behind it. Provided, of course, your therapist is using evidence-based practices (which EMDR is) and you have a good relationship with them. Those are the two sort of caveats.
I would ask your therapist what to do with your feelings in-between sessions. There are various exercises you can do to help you manage what comes out in session. One of the early stages of EMDR is called "resourcing" and goes over this.
Hope that helped. Obviously it is 100% your choice but if you do want to resolve whatever's going on then things getting worse before they get better is almost certainly part of that.
Also, unless it's a single-serve trauma, I'd look into getting a therapist covered by your insurance. Paying $150/session for treating CPTSD, which can take years, will get very expensive very quickly. If it was something like a car crash that can probably be done in less than 10 sessions.
hi @Pearl12, yes that helped. It gives a sense of having at least some control again.
I have a bunch of old & newer trauma piled up, all of it causing a number of issues; fatigue & anxiety being pernicious.
Thank you for going into it. I will give it thoight. Also, hopefully can find a cheaper way to get help.
I have a bunch of old & newer trauma piled up, all of it causing a number of issues; fatigue & anxiety being pernicious.
Thank you for going into it. I will give it thoight. Also, hopefully can find a cheaper way to get help.
Here are two meta-studies (studies drawing together the results of multiple other studies):
- "Eye Movement Desensitization Reprocessing (EMDR) had a large and significant overall effect (d = 0.909) on reducing trauma symptoms and externalizing behavior problems. Trauma treatment significantly decreased trauma symptoms (large effect) and externalizing behavior problems (medium effect). https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33899551/
- "EMDR was more effective than other therapies." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32043428/
The theory is that alternating which side of the brain you use induces processing of past events. This is similar to the way we process memories when sleeping—which is why when you sleep your eyes go left, right, left, etc. Your brain is alternating which side it engages.
When it comes to therapy, I'm not actually aware of any theories that were developed "in a lab." Every theory whose development I am aware of started out as a correlation that a therapist noticed and then decided to formalize and study:
- "CBT was first developed in the 1960s by a psychiatrist named Aaron T. Beck, who formulated the idea for the therapy after noticing that many of his patients had internal dialogues that were almost a form of them talking to themselves." https://www.foundationsrecoverynetwork.com/development-cognitive-behavioral-therapy/
- Person-centered therapy, one of the most popular, long-lasting, and evidence-based theories, was simply developed through Rogers's experience with clients.
- and so on.
So, EMDR was developed just like any other theory: a therapist noticed something and decided to formalize and study it.
Penicillin was created by accident. Someone just noticed that something they hadn't even intended to make killed bacteria and decided to study it. Because it was an accident... does that mean you don't trust it? I guess I wonder what the importance of being made "in a lab" is, and what even that means.
- "Eye Movement Desensitization Reprocessing (EMDR) had a large and significant overall effect (d = 0.909) on reducing trauma symptoms and externalizing behavior problems. Trauma treatment significantly decreased trauma symptoms (large effect) and externalizing behavior problems (medium effect). https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33899551/
- "EMDR was more effective than other therapies." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32043428/
The theory is that alternating which side of the brain you use induces processing of past events. This is similar to the way we process memories when sleeping—which is why when you sleep your eyes go left, right, left, etc. Your brain is alternating which side it engages.
When it comes to therapy, I'm not actually aware of any theories that were developed "in a lab." Every theory whose development I am aware of started out as a correlation that a therapist noticed and then decided to formalize and study:
- "CBT was first developed in the 1960s by a psychiatrist named Aaron T. Beck, who formulated the idea for the therapy after noticing that many of his patients had internal dialogues that were almost a form of them talking to themselves." https://www.foundationsrecoverynetwork.com/development-cognitive-behavioral-therapy/
- Person-centered therapy, one of the most popular, long-lasting, and evidence-based theories, was simply developed through Rogers's experience with clients.
- and so on.
So, EMDR was developed just like any other theory: a therapist noticed something and decided to formalize and study it.
Penicillin was created by accident. Someone just noticed that something they hadn't even intended to make killed bacteria and decided to study it. Because it was an accident... does that mean you don't trust it? I guess I wonder what the importance of being made "in a lab" is, and what even that means.