End Plan

Discussion in 'Suicidal Thoughts and Feelings' started by Luie, Mar 4, 2015.

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  1. Luie

    Luie Well-Known Member

    Hello forum.

    I've got one of those thoughts.

    Firstly, I do not want responses telling me to seek help from my family, doctors, therapists, etc. This has all happened before. I did not ask for input on the internet just to be told to go seek input from someone qualified to give that to me. No, there is a reason I am speaking here and not with there. CBT has proven to be a truly useless method for me, and I'm not too keen on the idea of using happy pills as an efficient coping mechanism. No, I don't want the opinions of people who're following some therapeutic agenda to persuade me that my thoughts are lies, though I understand that could very well be the case. I try to be a very logical person. I can only be persuaded with a logical argument by someone with something more original than "No don't do it please think of your family nobody's life is worthless arf snarf think of jesus".

    Secondly, I'm a little confused about the rules for this forum and how it pertains to what I'm about to write. I'm not writing sad paragraphs in hope someone will take pity on me and give me some sort of validation to ask for medical help. I'm only writing about the decision I've made and why, because I'd rather reach out and have the opinions of others rather than just asserting that I'm right because I think I am. I feel that's important, especially on a topic like this.

    So. I feel this world is no longer fit for me to live in. Continuing to live is something I have to do, not something I have any interest in. From a moral standpoint, I must continue to live for the sake of others. Obviously, my family will miss me, and it will hurt them for a while. From what I'm seeing, the general consensus on suicide is that it is selfish. While I don't disagree, that has absolutely no impact on my decision. Naturally, I'm a very self-oriented person. If I can't live my life the way I like, and if attempting to do so is causing others grief, then it's just as selfish as the grief I'd cause by ending it. Killing oneself is objectively immoral, but in comparison to the decision to continue my own, there's a lot of other factors to consider. I have a very accurate perception of reality. I try to be a very logical person. I've spent a long time weighing these factors and I've come to the conclusion that reality just isn't my cup of tea. Minor surges of dopamine here or there just aren't worth the stress on my brain and my body. I had told myself to wait before, when I was really hurt. I told myself if I waited, maybe things would get better. And they did. I've done this a few dozen times throughout my life and I've come to the harsh realization that this is just how it's going to be. I will have to endure pain just to experience joy, and I will have to repeat this process over and over again. And while there are things that truly make me happy, it's not worth it to get to them anymore, and trying to focus my life around those happy things is hurting the people around me.

    Reality just isn't a place I'd like to exist in. I spent a few decades checking it out, I gave it a good try. Sure there are outlets, but none of them are permanent (Well, except, you know- a joke.). I've been trying to escape reality through those outlets for a long, long time now. But now I've gotten to the age where I just can't do that anymore. So with that in mind, I've decided to tip my hat and check out. I did a pretty good job of getting this far, but I passed my stop months ago and staying on the bus is only making things worse for everybody. The way I'd like to live doesn't fit within the real world. I don't think it's anyone's fault, though I'm a little upset that it has to be this way. But I'm not sad anymore. I used to get really choked-up about ending my own life, but now, not so much. I actually feel very relieved. I feel like there's this huge weight is being lifted. I feel like I can truly enjoy the time I have left. I would much rather my life end to save some else's, but I can't go looking for people to meatshield deliberately. I still have some time, so I'm open to the possibility of it happening by chance. I figure I should, in some way, leave my mark on the planet. I was thinking about starting a blog and posting things every day (since this forum has rules I don't want to break), just as something for me to focus on for a while. I still have my art, and I still have my mind. I figure I should do something with the combination of those two. This blog won't be a reach out for help, though I am open to conversation. But I sure as hell would spend a few hours looking at some stranger's suicide journal and delving into their fucked-up psyche, and I'm sure someone else would too. Seems like a pretty nifty thing to do, and it kills time. Of course, I'll also have to get everything organized. I don't want to leave my things a mess for everyone to have to sort through. I have to buy a couple things and pay off a small loan too, so I'll have to find a job to do. Oh, and I wanted to pick up the violin again. Something about playing it now just seems hilarious.

    I think the rules say I'm not allowed to state a method, so I'll respectfully keep that to myself. But do know that it is not something spontaneous or impulsive. I'll be sticking around a while, so telling me to wait means nothing, since that's already what I'm doing given the method I've chosen. And while I can't state it, I find this method very fitting, although it bothers me to think I wouldn't be here if I had realized it sooner. Like I said, I've got time, I'll be here a little while, so I'm open to discussion. I've yet to meet anyone who rationalizes suicide in the same way I do, and the only one I know of is too dead to talk with, so it would be interesting to see if someone else shares my thought process. I don't much care for pity, but I do appreciate interest, and it would be nice to hear from someone who does think in the same way, since it's hard to talk about it to myself.

    EDIT: Immediately after posting this, a nice gentleman offered me an insane amount of money to check on his cats. While it isn't nearly the amount of money I need, the timing feels a little spooky. Ooo.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 5, 2015
  2. sweetles

    sweetles Well-Known Member

    Lucky you. You get a great gig (at least for cat lovers), and necessary unexpected funds. I've been hoping for a similar break.

    Your logic-based outlook is admirable, and to be cliché a breath of fresh air. I too get really sick of the sappy, airless, keep hope alive, think of your family, god loves you, you just need to find the right meds! responses you typically receive when expressing a sincere, calm, rational desire to commit suicide. Sometimes you've thought things out and it doesnt lead to some snuggly place.

    I would definitely be interested in reading your blog.
  3. Luie

    Luie Well-Known Member

    Thanks. The cats were very nice. It took me an hour just to leave because they were trying to escape with me.
    I know it's hard for good people to believe that a person can rationally come to a decision like this. It's probably why they leave such generic sappy responses. I can't blame them for denying that a person actually wants this, even if I try to tell them as clearly as possible. I don't advocate that everyone suicidal should come to this decision, but I've definitely seen people who think in the same way, and it would be absurd to say I'm the only one who's come to a sensible conclusion. That in mind, I feel like a bit of a hypocrite in giving some advice to others on this site. Damn my human brain for evolving to care about other people. Though in my defense, I'm only trying to help them feel less overwhelmed with whatever circumstance they're in, from a pro-life perspective, of course. I don't tell people to start smoking just because I like to. Same thing goes for choosing not to live. I just think it helps to be able to pull yourself together enough to think logically about your own life without all that emotional pang muddling your thought process.

    I don't know how I'll post the blog. I'm still searching around for a secure place to put it. I have some things saved in a file already, but I'll start posting after seven days. I want it to be public and open to comments and conversation. I'm well aware those sappy people will leave me stupid messages, but I'm more worried about a herd of trolls. I want people to have the option to voice their opinion, I just don't want the stupid spammy ones that nobody wants to see. I appreciate your interest in it though. I'll let you know when it pops into existence.
  4. Luie

    Luie Well-Known Member

    So I found Blog and Blogger. Blogger is a g+ thing and has obvious rules. Blog is free and can be kept private to those I invite, but it's a real bitch to navigate. I can't customize the homepage, and I can figure out how to put all my blog posts into one category that is easily accessible. I can't really find any other blog site that allows comments on each actual blog post rather than a separate comments section, so I guess I'll stick with this. I'll mess around with it after class tomorrow and send a link once I set up a solid system that actually looks pleasing to the eye.
  5. Unknown_111

    Unknown_111 Forum Buddy Staff Alumni SF Supporter

    I read your long journal and it's gives alot of logical reasoning. You are very adamant in your feelings but surely someone would miss you. Like you said that you gone through the full circle of therapy and it's not helped at all.

    Surely, your passion for art is enough to stay alive and something worthwhile living for. I'm happy to discuss this further and try my damest hard to prove that life is important. Please PM me if you want to discuss further.
  6. NYJmpMaster

    NYJmpMaster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    It is easy to believe oneself to be logical and correct and wise if you refuse to consider other possibilities and assume yourself to know everything about yourself , mental health, and the world. When in that state it is easy to see why you claim to want to have a discussion then qualify it but only with people that want to agree with me, and only if they don't say x,y, and z. In reality you simply want a discussion with yourself or failing that hoping to find some to reassure you that you are correct . If you were to read your post and blog objectively as others can then you would see how very wrong you are in your characterizations about yourself as logical and or thoughtful and and making sense. Hopefully someday you will learn to read your own words with the same eye as your replies imply you have read other posts here and instead of believing it to be gospel simply because you wrote it or because it was our thoughts you would see what is very clear to most everybody else that reads them.
  7. Luie

    Luie Well-Known Member

    You seem to have misread my comment so I will kindly correct you.

    There are two types of people I don't want to hear from on this site: People who will reply to this thread telling me to go seek help somewhere other than the internet, and people who will reply to this thread with preachy sappy comments. Comments containing things like "Go seek doctors" and "Think about Jesus" aren't going to help, and I'm curious as to why you don't think that's reasonable.

    I stated I am open to the possibility of me being wrong. I don't believe I am at the moment, but I am open to the possibility. I never claimed that I assume I know everything about myself or the world I live in, I only stated that I have an accurate perception, which has nothing to do with how I view myself or my life. Saying I only want to have a discussion with myself seems pretty ignorant, since I stated multiple times that I would like input from other people, including yourself. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I didn't want the input in the first place, and I don't want it just to refute it. In fact, I think I would have liked your response much better if you read my OP carefully before making your argument. But props to you for being the second person so far to make one.
  8. Luie

    Luie Well-Known Member

    Oh I know people will miss me. I know it's selfish not to think about how they'll feel, but if I had a memory eraser, I'd give it to them without a second thought. Besides, I don't want to stay alive just for the sake of the other people in my life. My art used to be enough to keep me going, but now it's causing some problems. I still have the compulsion to draw though, so it's enough to keep myself occupied for a while. I'm interested in your thoughts about why life is important (Other than, y'know, it's the only one you know you've got.). Feel free to state it.
  9. NYJmpMaster

    NYJmpMaster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    Actually your original post is the only one i read as opposed to just skim, as well as your replies to other posts. And it is your perception that is very much in question. Acting as your own judge to the accuracy of your own perception of the world is seldom going to bear much fruit when so many signs point to mental illness. Some see that as stigma or an insult, so would prefer to claim the impossibility of it, some see it like any other illness, an issue that you can choose to do nothing and suffer the symptoms and consequences or choose to treat and alleviate the symptoms and perhaps avoid the long term consequences.
  10. Luie

    Luie Well-Known Member

    Again, I don't claim impossibility. My perception of the world is logically accurate, since it only consists of things that have evidence supporting them. That doesn't mean I know everything. I am well aware that signs point to mental illness. Alleviation is not a cure. It's a chore I don't much care for anymore, whether it's a mental or physical illness. The long-term consequences are non-applicable, since I won't have consciousness to perceive them as such, or anything at all for that matter. You disagree with me, and I'm glad you've taken the time to make an argument, but you're going to have to come up with something better than "Your perception could be inaccurate." Of course it could. I stated so. Just because I refuted your points, that doesn't mean I'm going to just keep disagreeing for the sake of it. Again, I am open to the possibility that I could be wrong. But that by itself is not an argument proving that I am.
  11. bayareagirl

    bayareagirl Well-Known Member

    Can you say more about why you can't live the life you'd like? You referenced that notion a couple of times but it's not clear what that means. Just curious, since it seems central to your conclusion on suicide being your logical conclusion. Thanks.
  12. deb22

    deb22 Well-Known Member

    Hi Luie, I have read your post and the responses in depth and I will speak as plainly as possible without any intention to harm or disrespect you. I do however disagree with your conclusions even though some of your reasons are sound or understandable to you.
    "My perception of the world is logically accurate" this statement combined with the knowledge of this statement, 'I am well aware that signs point to mental illness." is in itself a skewed perception. If you believe you are accurate but agree you have signs pointing to mental illness it would not be possible for your thought processes to be correct as they would bend and change to suit your beliefs. If you cut a board off 2 inches at one end and ran it 20 feet you would be way off by the time you reached the other end.

    " I am open to the possibility that I could be wrong. But that by itself is not an argument proving that I am." I believe the above statement does prove it.

    I too am a logical thinker but realize that if you were to really be thinking logically you would want to hear from the people who disagree with you as you would gain more insight from those people than from those who share your same thoughts? yes? I think you are bright enough to know that "IF" your thinking was illogical and skewed, hearing from those that share your ideas would only reinforce your conclusions and not give you an accurate assessment of which you seek.

    So anyways Luie, I wish no harm to come to you but I did feel the need to post here to give you another viewpoint on your thread. I personally enjoy the art of debating but I can also understand the "fluffy' responses often given as many people do not share your forwardness and fear of harming someone with words on a suicide forum is not appropriate under the circumstances. You must however acknowledge those who read through such an involved post and still attempt to give comfort and help even if it is not to your liking or standards, they mean well [as do I] and tough love would be devastating to a poster if they were in a very fragile emotional place.

    Good luck to you, I hope the blog goes well. I also hope you broaden your thoughts to include logical input from objective viewers.
  13. Luie

    Luie Well-Known Member

    Not really sure if the quote options on this site are to my liking, so I'll just go old-fashioned.

    "My perception of the world is logically accurate" this statement combined with the knowledge of this statement, 'I am well aware that signs point to mental illness." is in itself a skewed perception. If you believe you are accurate but agree you have signs pointing to mental illness it would not be possible for your thought processes to be correct as they would bend and change to suit your beliefs. If you cut a board off 2 inches at one end and ran it 20 feet you would be way off by the time you reached the other end.

    So I feel we should define terms here. By "Perception of the world." I mean knowledge outside of me. Science, history, the present, soft sciences, etc. As I stated earlier, these things only adhere to evidence. So I do not believe in spooky ghosts and karma. You seem to think that it is not possible for me to change my beliefs to fit the evidence presented because a mental illness will alter that evidence to suit my previous beliefs. By "not possible", I assume you mean "impossible", and if that is the case, not providing evidence for your claim is not going to make me believe you. You say you are a logical person. I would think you'd know that. I am aware I have a mental illness of sorts. That was the point, or at least one of them. I told you I am tired of treatment. I know there is no magical cure, and with that in mind, I'd rather just close the book now. I don't mind if I never find out what happens.

    I too am a logical thinker but realize that if you were to really be thinking logically you would want to hear from the people who disagree with you as you would gain more insight from those people than from those who share your same thoughts? yes? I think you are bright enough to know that "IF" your thinking was illogical and skewed, hearing from those that share your ideas would only reinforce your conclusions and not give you an accurate assessment of which you seek.

    Isn't that what I said I was doing here? I mean, yes I said I was curious to know if there was anybody else who had the same thought process, but that's because I've yet to find a one. I've seen and heard from plenty of people stuck in a depression with suicidal thoughts, but I've still yet to find anyone. That doesn't mean they will reinforce my own thoughts, as everyone's lives are different. I will, again, point out that I only stated I can be persuaded with a logical argument, and that I was looking for someone to point out any fallacies they come across, because obviously I don't not want input from someone who disagrees with me. Such as yourself.

    I'm glad you've taken the time to construct an argument. Hopefully this response clears some things up. I know those fluffies will still make comments, and that they will continue making those comments no matter what I say. I don't blame them, I just wanted to state that those comments won't help anyway. My thoughts have been broadened as much as logic will allow. But I'm sure you know why I don't include the fluffy ones.
  14. Luie

    Luie Well-Known Member

    I'm going to refrain from specific details but I'll explain it a bit more.

    I don't want expectations or responsibilities, especially if they are things I must sacrifice my own happiness for. This lifestyle is affecting others around me. This isn't some attitude to refuse conformity, rather, it's just a fact. I will not do things I don't want to do. Even if it appears that I can do them at first, eventually it'll cause some conflict, or I just won't feel like putting up with them on that particular day. There are things I must push past and cope with, and I'm rather tired of having to deal with them. I'd rather not live at all than live a lifetime trying out different coping mechanisms after the previous one gives out. I understand this is a very selfish perspective and unfair lifestyle to others, but it's the one I want for me. If I can't live the way I'd like, I'd rather end now on a good note before I become a nuisance for fooling others into thinking I'm something I despise. I've spent years trying to find a way to configure the way I want to live into reality, and whatever seems to work at the time eventually gives out. Rather than hating myself over it, or hating others over it, I'm happy to throw up my arms, give a smile, and say goodbye. I had a good time given the things I've been through, and I'm ready for things to come to an end. I don't think the way I want to live is compatible with time, which I know must sound confusing, but it's one of the reasons why I feel so content about ending my life now as opposed to another few decades from now, or when I become an old person.
  15. bayareagirl

    bayareagirl Well-Known Member

    Thanks Luie. I won't pretend to entirely understand your perspective, (how could I, of course!) but I appreciate the response. There are times when I wonder if those that do complete to suicide go against the adage 'suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem'. How about if some of our problems seem permanent? Anyway, your response made me think of that.
  16. Luie

    Luie Well-Known Member

    Sometimes our emotions can make temporary problems seem permanent. I think it's important to take a step back and see if they actually are. It's one of the reasons I decided to keep going for a few more years and let myself ease out of an emotional state before thinking about things again. I knew that my brain was still going through changes and I would be able to think about my life better once I was in more stable living conditions. Even though I came to the same conclusion, I'm glad I waited longer to better understand myself in relation to the world, and I'm glad I've chosen a way that allows me to wait a little longer for the opportunity that something could change my mind later. I figure it's better to give some time to this decision rather than to assume I'll feel the same way about it later, and it gives me time to make preparations. That quote also makes me think about whether depression is a temporary or permanent problem, given that it reoccurs throughout your life. A lot of people say (and even therapists have said) that depression is a lifelong condition and I'll be dealing with these ruts all my life. That isn't the main problem, and I know there are people with reasons to fight it every time it comes back, but for me, I'd rather just gather up my good memories one last time and cease consciousness, than let this drag on over and over again. I know that has much to do with the specific conditions of my life, and I don't advocate that everyone with depression come to this decision, but it's a choice I'm okay to make for myself.
  17. Bruces

    Bruces Well-Known Member

    I hate the saying suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem,I've lived in misery for 24 years please explain to me how that is temporary,suicide to me is now a case of when and not if.
  18. Luie

    Luie Well-Known Member

    I too hate that saying. I would put it into the category of those meaningless sappy comments which you unfortunately will hear from therapists. It's one of the reasons I find little worth in investing anymore time or money into therapy. That, and they go completely bonkers if your end-of-course psychological evaluation doesn't change from the first on you took. They've turned being honest about the ineffectiveness of the session plan into a bad thing to say.
  19. Bruces

    Bruces Well-Known Member

    I've had more therapy than I care to remember none of it done a thing I'm now just waiting to die I'm dead internally just waiting for the rest to catch up
  20. Luie

    Luie Well-Known Member

    I feel that way too. But I've found some peace while I'm waiting. I have plenty of things to do until then. In my opinion, the internet has helped me over the years more than any therapist ever has, so if figure I'd give the internet one last go rather than risk another therapist. I have this silly fear they'll tie me up and ship me to a psych ward if I try to be honest with them at this point. I know they'll think it'll help me, but taking away my freedom would just make things worse.
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