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Discussion in 'Opinions, Beliefs, & Points of View' started by Axiom, Sep 16, 2010.

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  1. Axiom

    Axiom Account Closed

    It's a common topic, especially here. There are a range of situations that stem from the basis of equality. But the problem I see is, that these situations seem to cloud the basis of equality for each individual person. Instead of equality being a core aspect, it's something that can become secondary when the situation(s) suit it from a string rational.

    But equality is different for every person. Especially as a society, which is why I sincerly understand peoples views on specific topics of both sides of the fence.

    The only reason I'm making this topic is because of the confliction I read so much in loads of threads. People want equality for who they are, but draw a line when someone else is living a life that would never live. Applying equality en-mass is not the right way of doing it. It is the equality for the individual, regardless if they are part of a group or not. The actions of a group is actually the actions of the individuals who create that group. Defineing the individuals of a group because some people in that group decide to do something that warrents your definition is wrong. This only discriminates people, and ultimatly defines people who are no where near this initial situation that warrented your definition. By defining a group, you are defineing not only the people of now, but possibly the people of tomorrow and the people of the past.

    So perhaps I am wondering, how does your society view equality? And how do you view equality? As in, The core basis that ever person in your culture is entitled to. I think this is a fundamental aspect that needs to be emphasised and breathed in every corner of our societies, so we can all work from the same page. It would help alot when other socieities come into our(your) society and present their views of equality.

    Post or not, I've spilt my beans. I just read and heard so much and it's a zig zag mess of views, and it doesn't have to be like that.
  2. Krem

    Krem Well-Known Member

    I can't speak for "my" society, since I'm not really a part of it.

    For my self, I say that all of us are equally unimportant. A rich man, a poor man, a black man, a white man, all deserve nothing.

    But, since we give ourselves "rights", we should give those rights to others, as well. Giving one part of people rights for no other reason than they are/are not, a specific kind of people, is silly.

    If we allow some people to get education, we should allow all. If we allow some people to live within our imaginary borders, we should allow all. Basic, personal things. (Does not count for voting, and other things which directly influence others. That should be preserved for those who're educated in said matters.)

    And, when it comes to groups, if it is a select, specific group people willingly choose to be part of, and said group is known for ill behaviour, then we can judge those individuals, as members of said group. We can not, however, punish them, if they have not done anything themselves. We can, though, not give them the same benefits we give others. This applies to, again, specific groups, like gangs. Not corporations, religions, country, or such.

    Objective neutrality is perfection in government, though it is impossible for normal people to do, and dangerous to let those who can do it, do it.

    But, this is rambling. It is late, and I am tired.
  3. KittyGirl

    KittyGirl Well-Known Member

    This is just my own personal opinion, of course...

    Equality is a lovely thing to aspire to have but it's unnatural and impossible to achieve 'true' equality because *someone* will always be more greedy and will want to be above everyone else.
    --to put it simply, anyways.

    I like the idea of equality; I like to treat others equally and the way that I wish to be treated by them but I know that not everyone else in the world believes in and thinks the same way as I do.
    There will always be leaders and followers and outcasts. It's not a part of our nature as humans to view everything in an equal light and to treat every living thing equally with respect and resolve. It just won't happen. As much as I would like it to, it never will.
  4. nolonger

    nolonger Well-Known Member

    That's half the problem, those that are treated as lessers just completely give up on any kind of hope of 'justice', if you wanna call it that.

    And the fact that the developed nations are democracies(spelling) where people are free to earn their own money, have their own land(to an extent) etc, means that there will always be 'greedier' people. I've never really viewed equality as a financial stand-point. It's more or less rights wise for me. Poeple must be given equal rights. You can't call them rights if an additional party is unable to do the same as the majority. I'm mainly refering to adoption and marriage rights for gays in Australia(and other parts of the world). We have little to no ability to adopt(you have to adopt as a signle parent otherwise), absolutely no ability of getting married at this point in time. Although in NSW they've managed to pass a bill through the lower house(or something) letting gays adopt. I'm unaware of the result of it going through the upper, but if they can get it through, it'll help push Australia forward. Into the more civilised world...

    Anyway, I think that we are all equals, all trying to live our lives in the pursuit of happiness we find ourselves in.
  5. Ihatemyselfalot

    Ihatemyselfalot Banned Member

    I used to be in the Communist party *shrugs*
  6. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    Ah, equality, what a nice ideal. Canada's not bad, too: equal access to health care, to education (post-secondary does cost money, but not much, and grants and loans are readily available to all), and the freedom to pursue happiness.

    But if you have a Western European name you have 3x the chance of getting a job interview after applying than someone with an apparently non-Western European name. Fail. :(
  7. Zurkhardo

    Zurkhardo Well-Known Member

    The problem in America is that some forms of egalitarianism are conflated with socialism, which in turn is conflated with the evils of Cuba, Mao's China, and the Soviet Union. So while our constitution makes it clear that all citizens are created equal - and are to be legally and ethically treated as such - certain initiatives related to equality, such as healthcare, bring up red flags.
  8. Issaccs

    Issaccs Well-Known Member

    Discounting of course that you still had slaves at the time of the constitution being written.
  9. greyroses

    greyroses Well-Known Member

    I want to hug you.
    I dont really fit in to most social groups around me, but my understanding looking in is that equality exists on popular, pre-existing lines. The phrase "color doesn't matter" means you cannot say a, b, or c in front of people of color. "everyone has a right to love" means one might be willing to put up with those of different sexual orientation, so long as it isnt flung in their face or is strictly under the labels of gay or lesbian (on a good day, bi). "money doesnt make you more entitled" means that the wealthy cant say they are better than the hobo on the street, though everyone can snicker as he walks by on his was to his mercedes. I would say it is an ideal that has very little to do with individual commitment and motivation.
    I view it as a sad joke, impossibility, and something that still has to be run after. Equality as a whole concept is impossible. Human beings exist through power relations. These change, constrict and release with various causes. So do my own values. Instead of looking at equality in terms of what is entitled though, I think it would be best thought of as an opportunity to create a future pathway for oneself and others.
  10. Zurkhardo

    Zurkhardo Well-Known Member

    Indeed, that was a glaring exception (although one that was largely left intact for the sake of political compromise). But you've rightly brought up how even sentiments of equality have always entailed exceptions. Many societies have gotten better over time, but equality in it's entirety will always be elusive. The best we can do is make such exceptions aberrational than systemic
  11. Issaccs

    Issaccs Well-Known Member

    On an interesting note in equality, my local MP has never lived in my area and refuses to move to this day. Aside from the fact she is grossly incompetent her party put together an all female shortlist, as their were too many competent males who would have threatened her position and then replaced the females they believed were so competent as to threaten her with those who had no experience.

    So yes, great strides for equality in the Labour party.
    The irony is that this area was considered a safe seat and thats why they did all the conniving bullshit and as such they nearly lost by a margin of 100 votes.
  12. Zurkhardo

    Zurkhardo Well-Known Member

    That brings up the interesting point of equality trumping merit. Sometimes the latter is sacrificed in order to progress the former.
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