Eugenics.

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by Issaccs, Feb 20, 2009.

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  1. Issaccs

    Issaccs Well-Known Member

    Eugenics, specifically through gene therapy.

    Lets say, as a hypothetical, you can have your fetus scanned and genetically mapped to learn what the future holds for the kid and can also change any aspect you don't like about it.

    Would you go for it?
     
  2. Ziggy

    Ziggy Antiquitie's Friend

    In some cases. This is probably a poor example but let's say that your child is going to have eyesight problems and later on in life you would correct it with laser surgery or glasses. Now if you could fix these problems at the fetus stage then why not? Cure the problem sooner rather than later.

    Where you do have problems is with issues such as personality 'disorders'. Somebody with a schizoid personality trait might not label it as a disorder or a problem, whereas other people would. So you would end up curing people who have no desire to be cured. Which is a bit dodgy to say the least.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2009
  3. Lovecraft

    Lovecraft Well-Known Member

    Eugenics usually involves the selective killing of people, but it doesn't really matter.

    Anyways, I'd allow for the alteration of humans.
     
  4. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    No. Our uniqueness defines our humanity. If we can modify babies how we want, there'll be literally Flavour of the Month children running around. Designer babies... they'll all be the same... and they'll be out of style in a year or two. I hope I don't see the day.
     
  5. jameslyons

    jameslyons Well-Known Member

    I'm not a big fan of eugenics. It's often associated with the holocaust, but it was around for a while. I remember Henri-Pierre Roche writing about it in his novel, Jules Et Jim - set in 1910.

    I don't think it should be a problem for people who are interested though. Most people practice a de facto primal level of eugenics. We look at our partners and think about what runs in their family: myopia, alcoholism, depression, diabetes, epilepsy. And while most people don't disregard somebody for their poor genes, we do think about family histories.

    The problem is that some negatives are linked with good traits. For instance, alcoholism and depression are linked to creativity. I wouldn't go through the process though.

    But then again, I most likely won't have children.

    J.
     
  6. Lovecraft

    Lovecraft Well-Known Member

    If we could so extensively modify genes, it would be no hassle to make humans happy. That's all that really matters, I think. "I'd rather be happy than right any day." - Slartibartfast, Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy
     
  7. Ziggy

    Ziggy Antiquitie's Friend

    What makes people happy? I've thought about this a lot and still don't know.
     
  8. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    Nobody knows.
     
  9. Lovecraft

    Lovecraft Well-Known Member

    Stimulation of the reward centre, and other such things. They have successfully put little electrodes in bulls that can stimulate some satisfaction on demand, and also think of the effect of ECT on the depressed. I can say, first hand, it can produce happiness. It's not a complete image, but there is knowledge.
     
  10. Ziggy

    Ziggy Antiquitie's Friend

    Reading Brave New World made me realise that you had to choose between Happiness and Reality.
     
  11. Summer.Rain

    Summer.Rain Well-Known Member

    Few things:
    1. Gen engineering wont make everyone the same, it will just make them better!
    Immunity to viruses, immunity to mental disorders, healthy physical body's.
    2. Happiness: happiness is no more then a simulation of a part of the brain
    it can be done naturally (walking in a beautiful park), it can be also done
    with things such as books or computer games, music, and even drugs.
    and while natural happiness is very shallow and weak, drugs are probable do the best job
    when it comes to make one happy, of course because of the way our brain is made
    we are not allowed to be always happy, we only get it as a reward.
    For example: sex, we enjoy it ONLY because it is supposed to be done to make baby's
    but humans found a way around it with anti pregnancy devices, which is cheating.

    So, how can one make himself happy? just listen to what your body needs
    Sports, healthy food, sun light, sex, interaction with others
    with these you brain will keep rewarding you and you will be happier.
    but, unfortunately some of us suffer from chemical issues in the brain
    so for us it is so much harder to get any sort of reward.
    And without rewards life is a very dark and lonely and cold place.
     
  12. Random

    Random Well-Known Member

    The main problem is who decides what is a good thing and a bad thing? What if there really is something like a gay gene? Suppose you can detect a child's sexual orientation ahead of time? What do you do?

    What if you could see serial killer traits and there was no way to correct it?

    What would we do in the case of people who want to actually design their child without any thought as to what is best for the child? I think a lot of these things have been considered but I doubt there is any real world solution to every one of them.
     
  13. Summer.Rain

    Summer.Rain Well-Known Member

    who decides what is good? Ok lets put it this way, what IQ do you want to have?
    What sort of body structure do you want?
    Do you want to be fat or thin? or maybe athletic?
    Do you want to have a strong resistand mental state?
    Got my point?

    About Gays, as far as i see it, it against the normal evolutionary process
    it an error that must be fixed, so if there is a gene for it, it must be removed.

    Serial killers have nothing to do with genes, its a life style.
    Children who were abused have more chance to become an abusers themselves.

    And as i said, the best thing for you child is for him to be smart, attractive
    and strong, with this things he can achieve anything in life.
    Plus genes engineering can make one live longer (like maybe 150 years)

    And today the genes research is going so fast that i wont be surprised if soon
    someone will come up with a super child, and everyone will follow them
    this is the next step of evolution, today we make ourselves better and not the nature, nature is not good enough any more,
    humans and nature just dont go well together.
     
  14. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    Summer Rain, that is some of the most offensive commentary I have seen.

    High IQ is good? Hardly. You'll end up with a world of scientists obsessing about stupid things and no one dealing with people.
    Physically powerful and tall are necessary? What the hell.
    Stubborn and willful? That's a great feature. Really.
    Attractive? Well, that changes with societal views, so you can't have a universal attractiveness.
    Gay is counter-evolutionary? Oh my fucking god.
     
  15. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    Furthermore. I have all those attributes. I'm very smart, physically powerful, attractive, and willful [bisexual too, incidentally]... but you sure as hell don't want a world full of me. A few more probably wouldn't hurt, though.

    Genetic engineering is not likely to make us live longer, either. Longevity is pretty much hard-capped at about 110 years, and we have no idea why or how to extend that.

    And. No. Having a single "super child" will DESTROY the species in perhaps a century. A single disease will obliterate the population... barring that, everyone would be the same and we would be ENTIRELY inflexible as a species. If this "super child" was anything like me, which by your definition it would be, the entire world would be asocial and non-cooperative and society would fall apart.

    We NEED diversity, and we CAN NOT have permanent happiness [addictive drugs stimulate the reward centre of the dream... addicts don't tend to be permanently happy, if you haven't noticed.] And please don't be so fucking bigoted, Summer Rain.
     
  16. bleach

    bleach Well-Known Member

    I agree with most of what Summer.Rain said. Life is a random accident with an extremely slow and wasteful method of improving itself. We can do much better.

    I would like to add that genetics is not the simplistic science you people make it out to be, though. Most human traits seem to arise from dozens, hundreds, if not thousands of genes working parallel in a complex relationship which is only dimly understood--so in most cases, an individual gene only has a 'weak relationship' with a given trait. It affects the probability of the trait's occurrence slightly, but it isn't the sole determinant. I will guarantee you that a psychological aspect like sexuality does not have a single straight/gay switch somewhere in the genome. Also there are non-genetic factors in human development, which the environment is only one of.
     
  17. Ziggy

    Ziggy Antiquitie's Friend

    People want to be stronger, but they don't exercise.
    People want to be smarter, but they don't study.
    People want to live longer, and yet still achieve nothing.
    Thank god for genetic engineering! :laugh:
     
  18. bleach

    bleach Well-Known Member

    Haha, and can you believe, there are people that want medical care even though they are still going to get sick again and die someday?
    Humans... :rolleyes:
     
  19. SpencerA

    SpencerA Well-Known Member


    I disagree and find that really offensive.
    sounds suspiciously like what Hitler wanted actually, and look how World War 2 ended up. Perfection doesn't exist, and flaws are what make people quirky and beautiful. It may feel as though life isn't worth living sometimes, but we'd have far less to live for if there was no variety in life.
     
  20. Ziggy

    Ziggy Antiquitie's Friend

    Science can be put to good uses, such as helping people with medical conditions. or we can try to create a super race or try to eliminate gay people. The (rather obvious) point I was making was that in a lot of cases nature has provided for us, such as strength and intelligence etc. but in other cases it (again rather obviously) hasn't. I just think that the uses that many people will have for genetic manipulation are a bit suspect.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 22, 2009
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