Everyone should have the right to die humanely

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by Anonymous2, Sep 7, 2012.

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  1. Anonymous2

    Anonymous2 Well-Known Member

    Everyone should have the right to die humanely. This archaic idea that only murders can be euthanized is ridiculous. I don't understand why murderers and violent rapists get to die more humanely than suicidal people.

    I mean seriously, an evil man could go torture and murder 100 people and then get to simply go to sleep. I'm mean, literally go to sleep (lethal injection = "It kills the person by first putting the person to sleep and then stopping the breathing and heart in that order".) Think about how easy and peaceful that is. In addition, they get the luxury of leaving an unmutilated body for family members.

    But a person whose only crime is having a mental or physical disorder, has to suffer severe trauma before dying. Either in fear (e.g., jumping, guns), pain (e.g., random drugs), or both (e.g., fire, drowning, etc.).
     
  2. justMe7

    justMe7 Well-Known Member

    I'm not too sure what you mean by humanely? As in someone else administering that deathly moment? Contrasting suidide to execution is quite :| to me. For starters I consider execution to be quite dangerous in itself, and extremely contraversial as to who has the right/ their justifications.

    When it comes to suicide, I don't think it should be made easier, or encouraged by any society. Too many things can go wrong, and society has no core level respect for life yet, so messing about with who can live and die is extremely immature for our societies.

    I really don't mean to edge this but people can die humanely. Your argument that extreme violent offenders are executed/murdered in a humane way and that this should be applied to suicidal people isn't really right in my opinon. You're blurring a complete line of someone else supplying/commiting the act for another person, as opposed to that person having to do it themselves. A can almost guarentee that if there are valid routes of "support" to assisted suicide, some people who would overcome suicide would not in the end, simply because of the ease of "access".

    Again though, I wouldn't trust our social mentalities with this. It's another easy escape that shouldn't be there. Just my opinon.

    In the end, I'd hope that there is more training and understanding put into the strains and mental pressures that compile and make mental health issues even worse for people. I don't believe in helping people end their lives, but I believe in helping to advance and create a system that believes and respects people for who they are, and helps them to overcome their unique issues. Society should always be trying to preserve and respect life. I do realise from one point of view respecting life is not interfering in those choices of suicide, but that comes at a fragile balance in itself. I don't think society should edge towards encouraging it's time to give up or move on past who we are.

    My opinons obviously very generalized, especially considering terminally ill people. I'm still off on that too but offering my opinon on that seems :| I still believe there's always hope, no matter how dire a Time is.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2012
  3. gloomy

    gloomy Account Closed

    The whole point of capital punishment and 'humane' execution is that someone has proven themselves to be a threat to society and is beyond rehabilitation, it's not supposed to be about taking revenge, even though a lot of people like the idea of being able to get revenge on someone, or maybe they just like the idea of killing someone and finally have a situation where it's socially acceptable to feel good about it.

    Suicide isn't exactly socially acceptable, and depression isn't really a legitimate cause for euthanasia… especially if it's not a serious condition.
     
  4. Drake

    Drake Well-Known Member

    Look take a holiday to Switserland , discuss everything with doctors there , if they really think your case is proven .
    You are debt free , no overburdened baggages , they are more then happy to allow you the humane way to go .

    You just pay the cost like any other threatment and disposal of your remains will be arranged too once paid in full .
    See not every country in the world thinks people should suffer so much .
     
  5. AlienBeing

    AlienBeing Well-Known Member

    Is that really true about Switzerland? I wish I could afford a trip there if it is. I think if you've suffered from treatment resistant depression all your life, you're almost 50 and you've been injured trying experimental treatments for it, euthanasia should be an acceptable thing to do. I can no longer be expected to contribute anything useful to my community anyway and they would be better off without me. There will soon be no one left to grieve to any appreciable extent either. I suffer on, only so my dying parents won't have to suffer, but I understand that not everyone can manage that and sometimes I really don't think I can either. I just want the final peace of nothingness that it is hard to resist. Yet cruelly, I must do violence to myself and leave a mess for my family because nobody will help me end my suffering gently and humanely and accept that my suffering is too much for me to bear. Yes I totally agree with the OP on this one. Except that murderers aren't choosing to die, it's being forced on them so that's not humane either. I don't agree with the death penalty. I don't think we should stoop to the level of the murderer and do what they did. I'm glad we don't have it in Canada, even though a family member was murdered. But that's a completely different issue from the right to die for those with untreatable illness that causes endless suffering for them.
     
  6. Drake

    Drake Well-Known Member

    It is true about switserland , but you really need to go trough a therapie session , they want to make sure you have no regrets , and are not seeking the easy way out of life .

    basically it is a procedure too , not something he doc ! , I want to die set it all up for me !
    Wish they did that in most country other country too , but guess in keeping elderly alive is earned more money .
    And job offers then letting them gracefully pace away .

    All boils down to the age old question of money and those who are in control of money .
    Humanity always came second place in all things .
     
  7. AlienBeing

    AlienBeing Well-Known Member

    I'll bet it's actually pretty hard to get the OK for it. I had a young British friend from another suicide forum who decided not to have her brain cancer treated because she was suicidal before she got it. She went to the Netherlands to die but said the process of getting Euthanasia, even though she had left the cancer so long that there was no hope of recovery any more, was just too daunting. She stayed anyway though because she was getting excellent hospice care--another good thing they have for the dying there. RIP my online friend Whattajoke. (She never revealed her real name because she didn't want her family to find her. That's gotta be one unsupportive family when you don't want them anywhere near you when you are dying. And she was just 19 years old.) I miss you Whatta.
     
  8. Xaos

    Xaos Well-Known Member

    "No one should have the right to die, living people make better profits for our company than dead ones" - A quote by some **** who works for a mental health drugs production company
     
  9. normaljoe

    normaljoe Well-Known Member

    it is simple altruism. and since government has the monopoly of force and coercion they abuse that to do what is best for the public. ironic they pass laws like this and force you to obey them at the point of a gun lol. (I am anarcho capitalist, basically I am saying that if the doctor is willing I see no problem, just sign a release form with a witness.)
     
  10. katrina77

    katrina77 Guest

    There is a right to die law in Oregon. Someone I know chose to use it. It was not an especially positive thing. First of all, you have to be able to hold the poison yourself, and be able to sit up and drink it without assistance. This does not allow someone who is beyond this point the ability to choose this option. And this pushes people to opt out before they are ready. And it was pure unadulterated Hell for people around her.

    Not an option I would choose for myself. Too many scars left behind.
     
  11. Butterfly

    Butterfly Pokémon Master Staff Alumni SF Author SF Supporter

    I always find these discussions very interesting. I am a registered nurse who works on a medical ward for the elderly, and I did 3 years of training so I have witnessed death in many different situations. From my experience, I don't really think there is a "humane" death. Maybe humane is the wrong word, but death is very far from dignified. I have witnessed death from unexpected cardiac arrest, painful deaths from cancer, painful deaths from various co-morbidities,"peaceful" expected deaths and sadly, even suicide. There was nothing dignified or humane about jumping up and down on someones chest, nothing humane about people screaming in pain and constantly agitated from their co-morbidities, certainly nothing humane from a drowned body and even a peaceful death is not dignified. When you die, your body relaxes therefore you expel waste from various orifices. Then us nurses have to perform last offices. We do try our very best to make it as dignified as possible, carry out last wishes from patients and families but there is nothing worse than trying to dress someone when they are stiff from rigor mortis, you do have to be quite rough at times. This is my view on death in general, that it is not the most dignified experience people would like it to be. For some, this may not be an issue. You would be dead, you would not have to experience this. But for me, I hate the thought to be laying there naked while I was being tugged about covered in my own shit and piss while some nurses cleaned me up and shoved me into a body bag.

    Another point I would like to make is that some physical illnesses do turn out to be terminal, such as cancer, MS, parkinsons, dementia etc. The body eventually shuts down, people cannot control the path of these illnesses. Yes, medically we can try to prolong life as much as possible, however, death is sooner rather than later. I may get flamed here, but with mental illness, although it can be a chronic illness for many, it is NOT a terminal illness. In the end we have that choice whether we want to live or die (regardless of the emotional pain which can often make us feel we have no choice, but ultimately suicide is a choice). Those who commit suicide die by their own hand. Although for many of us, our conditions will not be cured, it can be controlled, managed via different means but physically it is not going to kill us. There would also be an argument as to how rational ones mind is at the time they commit suicide, but that is another argument for another day. This is why I do not believe in euthanasia for those will mental health illnesses. Although for some, few may be the exception, completely rational but for many there is hope of control and even recovery of their illnesses.

    I have also read some people's point at keeping the elderly alive brings in the money. Well I have to say that this is far from the case. Even the most simplest of care packages for the elderly (an emergency call bell, a carer a day etc) is so expensive. There is both the medical and social care aspect to consider, not just how much money drug companies reel in from the drugs these people need to stay alive. It's expensive, so expensive and yet care is most lacking in caring for the elderly. In my opinion, prisoners are treated better than some of our elderly are and it breaks my heart.

    I may have gone slightly off the point, but wanted to throw those things out there that people may not have considered.
     
  12. In a Lonely Place

    In a Lonely Place Well-Known Member

    I agree there should be some help for those who can give a reasoned argument for not being here anymore over a six month period maybe so it can be shown that they aren't making any rash decisions when things could improve.This subject makes people very uncomfortable but suicide is a fact of life,it's just a shame it has to be a mostly painful/violent/lonely ending for those who can't take anymore suffering from life.
    I would also like to be in hospital so any of my organs/tissue that might help others could be taken while in good condition to help others live.
     
  13. snarrylover

    snarrylover Well-Known Member

    Some countries do let you choose to die in certain circumstances and I agree with that.

    If an animal is suffering then the humane thing to do is to put it to sleep and end it's suffering. I believe that is the right thing.

    When my nanna was in hospital, me and my mum voiced that very fact, that if it was an animal going through this pain we would have had her put down by now instead of having her suffer every single day until her body was ready to give up.

    I think there would be a lot of opposition to something that lets us die, though. Religious reasons aside, what would determine if a person should be allowed to die? Would it be just physical pain? A loss of limbs? Would suicidal people be allowed to end things easily with a simple injection?
     
  14. pppqp

    pppqp Well-Known Member

    my take is it's a matter of having access to gentle methods. murderers are given the privilege. everyone already has the right to die. ultimately the decision is all yours.
     
  15. justMe7

    justMe7 Well-Known Member

    What? That's a very iffy statement. It's humane mental and emotional association that makes this seem right. That doesn't mean it's right. We interfear. That's all we do. More than likely the suffering is caused by the environments we put these animals in the first place. Where does our idea of an acceptable level of suffering constitute and end for any lifeform?
    Ah fuck animals. Lets cut some more dogs testicals off because they get in our way.

    Humane.... I suppose that works as far as we can percieve. Pretty dominerring of us though.
     
  16. flowers

    flowers Senior Member

    Oh yes, indeed. It is heart breaking what a supposedly civilized society is willing to allow their most vulnerable members to endure.

    I believe in "free will" This means that an adult should be allowed to choose for themselves what they want to do to their own body. I do not think this should ever be legislated. I do not think people should be forced to stay alive. i think it should be a decision made by each soul. If it is a poor decision, then this is something the soul will have to deal with. But I do not think that people have the right to mandate by law that someone stay alive. ( I hope that the word "soul"l will not be edited out by a moderator. I always keep my mouth shut and not give opinions. We will see.

    Anyway, in my opinion,:D if a society chooses to become involved with moral decisions, perhaps the time to do that is earlier. By making the quality of life better for those who are most vulnerable and suffering. perhaps allowing the elderly and ill to live in so much pain with woefully too little caring and support is what is immoral and should be illegal. Then there would surely be less people wanting to exit early.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2013
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