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Discussion in 'Suicidal Thoughts and Feelings' started by Darken, May 6, 2007.

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  1. Darken

    Darken Well-Known Member

    This world is so fucked up. why do innocent people suffer so much. why is it that some kids die before they even get a chance to grow up. natural disasters have no mercy they kill every thing. even the whole fuckin world will be completely destryoed one day. All humans will cease to exist, and animals everything, and what for? what was all that happened here for? absolutely fucking nothing.

    Im tired of existing anyways, might as well join the others. my two friends thayt commmited suicde. My dead family members that I loved. my baby brother that got aborted as soon as he came out of the womb. There is nothing happy or enjoyable about my life. Ive been treated like shit neglected bullied ingored like I dont even exist. ive been treated so badly by some people. there is no fucking morality in this world, all that matters is survival. Creatures will do any thing to survive, there is no mercy think of the sickest thing possible in your mind and people will do it to preserve their own existence. the holocaust for example.

    fuck life and this disgusting pointless world!!!
    Sorry mom I dont want to hurt you! but you dont need me and I have to go. I will forever await the day I will see you again in the void, as well as all others I have cared for.
  2. Erebos

    Erebos Well-Known Member

    True...isn't it? In 5 billion years, the sun billow out, transforming into a red giant and consume the Earth. Human achievements, conflicts, memories will all be erased from existence. Nothing will matter.

    But the question is...will we see them all again in the void? Why do people keep fighting this utterly futile battle? Who are we trying to impress? What are we trying to prove?
  3. Syd

    Syd Guest

    Why do these bad things happen? Each event that occurs is the direct result of some prior cause. If you want to know why specific tragedies occur, you need to look at the sources of each. Everything is part of an enormous domino effect taking place around us all at once. Why do we continue in the face of adversity? Challenge. Just as many of us fall apart in bad situations, others accept the misfortunes and strike back. We're either going to see this horrible world and simply give up, or we're going to accept the challenge and put ourselves to the test against anyone or anything that opposes us.

    Good/ evil are of course not objectively real, they're part of how humans interpret the world, and the concepts are fundamental to healthy human functioning. Unless humans evolve tremendously or augment our genes and brains enough, this duality is something that must be accepted and respected. Without suffering and pain, we can't feel the ecstasy of love and highs of happiness. We commit ourselves to hard work with the expectations of being rewarded with happiness afterwards. When we don't experience the rewards of happiness in life, it becomes difficult for us to motivate ourselves to keep working. This depression one encounters challenges even the toughest of us, just imagine conquering it.. when a human can fight back and succeed against serious depression, think of what else they can accomplish.

    I like the idea of accepting what we can't change, and focusing on changing what we can. There's not much we can do about volcanoes for example, but what about criminal behavior? I support the theory that social environments have the greatest influence on human development, and that criminals are largely "manufactured" by other humans, through neglect and abuse. I believe genetic differences between humans can account for tendencies (some are more prone to developing into criminals) but that it's society's responsibility to study these genetic traits and design proper environments to help everyone (regardless of genes) grow up mentally healthy. It's something positive that humans can change, if enough can work together on new educational systems and support new social privileges.

    Maybe. 5 billion years is a very long time for humans to grow and evolve though. I wouldn't be surprised if humans have found ways to travel and colonize further reaches of our galaxy within 1 billion years. It seems like humanity should find a solution, especially looking at how much technological progression has happened in only the last 100 years or so. Although it's more probable that meteors will destroy life on Earth before humans progress to that stage. Any number of horrible disasters could occur, even within a thousand or less than a hundred years. You may have heard of these already, but I'll just list a few for fun.

    A few worst-case-scenarios:

    - Canary Islands. Some scientists speculate that the volcanic region could be the source of the next "Mega Tsunami". The western half of La Palma island is structurally unstable enough that another large volcano could send an estimated 500 billion tonnes of land mass into the ocean at once. In theory, this could result in waves hundreds of meters in height, devastating European and American cities that border the Atlantic Ocean.

    - Yellowstone Explosion. The dormant supervolcano that exists here is well known by scientists. It's said that eruptions have occured in this region every 600,000 years or so, and the next eruption is at least 40,000 years overdue, meaning the next could be more devastating than ever before. The explosion would send ash, dust, and sulfur dioxide into the atmosphere, reflecting the sun's rays and creating a cold wave lasting several years. Crops in many areas would fail and many species of animals and plants would face extinction.

    - Global Warming. Another well-known problem. As more fossil fuels are burned up (oil crisis too, but I'll save that for another time) and ice sheets of Antarctica and Greenland melt, the water level could rise at incredible rates. Worst possible outcomes saw cities like London and NYC underwater by the end of the 21st century.

    I could mention more catastrophes like plagues, biological weapons/ disasters, nuclear war, economical collapse and depression, etc. but most of this is common knowledge or belongs in a separate thread. I'll just give a couple more replies here instead.

    I don't believe we'll see anyone again. I think we live our lives, and that's it. Make the best of it, it's all we're going to get. I'm not going to entertain the idea of an afterlife. I feel that death is too foreign to be compared with our lives and the properties of the universe we inhabit. Human minds and language should only apply to a context within space-time (otherwise verbs become useless for example) An afterlife seems very absurd to me, but I'll put aside the semantics for a minute and reflect on the possibility. Before existence, did I see or know anyone or anything? Since seeing and knowing involve a human brain, and I didn't begin forming a brain until I began forming within my mother's womb, I'm going to say - no, I knew nothing, saw nothing, and was nothing. That's what death will be. I'll return to the state I was in before life (nothingness) and that's all that can logically be said of it from the perspective of a human. The incomprehensible elements required for further explanation are unfathomable and uncommunicable by humans.

    Each person would have to answer this on an individual basis, as it's subjective and there are no concrete answers. Here's my take on it.

    I keep fighting because I seem to enjoy challenge as much as I despise it. Just knowing how ridiculous all of it is makes me laugh at times. I guess I'm a twisted enough individual that my own sensitivity thrills me at times. I get inspired at the spontaneity of the world. Sometimes I'm addicted to emotion, other times I'm sick of it. There are moments where I want to end it all, but deep down I love everything too much to leave it behind. The fact is, if we truly hated life, we wouldn't still be here typing these messages right now. I think most people need to silently acknowledge this fact, whether we want to admit it or not.

    We're wired for it. I'm not living to impress anyone or prove anything, I'm living because I enjoy life. In good times that's easy... but how can I enjoy the pain? Well, I don't as it occurs, obviously. I enjoy it when it's over, that's when I can look back on the pain and misfortune and realize that I prevailed. Even if the pain seems to never end, there are times we can rise above our circumstances and laugh at it all. Still, there are other times where I can almost predict when something is going to hurt, like I'm expecting it, but I feel ready for it. In those moments, it's almost as if I wanted it all along, and maybe I did. I guess life is like alcohol, it's an acquired taste.
  4. Cestmoi

    Cestmoi Well-Known Member

    That was beautiful Syd.
  5. Erebos

    Erebos Well-Known Member

    I agree. Everything has a cause and a reason. There is logic behind what we think and what we do. We can blame society for what we've turned out to be, or we can blame our parents, our classmates, the media etc. But in the end, you really can't blame anyone else but yourself.

    Challenge? We face challenges so that we can be rewarded. As shallow as that seems, it's the truth, isn't it? But the ultimate reward for all of our endeavors doesn't seem like much of a reward at all.
    Any date in the future, no matter how far away, will one day come. Whether the sun swallows us up, or an Apollo asteroid meets our orbit doesn't matter. There are a million ways to die, but the end result is all the same.
    Interesting. I've never heard of this one...

    That's what it looks like. Essentially "remember what it was like before you were born? Well, it'll be just like that."

    It's not that I hate life, per se. I don't see the point in it anymore. It's like Sisyphus pushing the boulder up the hill, only to have it roll down again, thus forcing him to repeat this utterly meaningless task for all of eternity. There doesn't seem to be a justifiable, objective meaning to life, yet everyone continues to push that boulder up the hill regardless. Emotion and enjoyment? I don't see the need in either...
  6. Darken

    Darken Well-Known Member

    i agree with almost everything you wrote vsyd. one of the things we can do to control criminal behaviour is to stop bullying and racism that would greatly lower crime rates guaranteed. is it even possible though? would we be fighting agaisnt nature? i want to die because i dont enjoy life and it sucks. so many people have lived horrible lives and died before anything got better. and for what? now where are they? they just died and cease to exist?
  7. Syd

    Syd Guest

    It's true Erebos, that life is insignificant. We're like flames on tiny candles, surrounded by worlds of darkness, seeing only what falls within the dim glow of light we produce. We flicker and spark, seeing the end of the wax drawing closer with each passing day. Some of us are blown out by the breeze, others melt away into nothingness. Our entire lives lost inside a blink of time, the rest of the universe rolling onwards, maybe into infinity. An endless cycle?

    Did anyone hear about the theory that time will reverse itself eventually? I don't necessarily believe in any of these theories, it's just fun to read about. I think the Big Crunch theory was where this idea originated, though I could be wrong. The idea was that the universe would begin imploding upon itself after finishing its expansion, in which case all the events of time would then unwind until the universe shrinks back into it's micro form. The "big bang" starts the cycle once again, and everything happens exactly as it did before.

    Several theories here.

    Article on End of Universe

    I guess it doesn't matter either way if such a thing is true, as our lives would occur the same way, and we'd have no recollection of past existences. Though I don't doubt these perspectives are oversimplified views on the universe. The only thing I'm truly certain of is that humans lack the mental resources to properly define and analyze our universe. It's really just for fun.

    Zohmygob, I think societies can improve to the point where the crime rate is greatly lowered. Of course crime will always exist, but it can be reduced to a level where it's easy to control, and our funding can be focused on more important issues like health and education. I think that in time, wars will become less common as well, for many reasons. Speaking of education though, that's going to play a pivotal role in the future of humanity.

    Education should be the #1 priority in America. (and other societies as well) Learning should be enjoyable, curriculums tailored for the mind of the individual, rather than built to fit the 'norm' of the population. Most importantly: School should be fun. That's what matters the most. If children don't want to attend school, and must be forced, that means we're doing something wrong. The answer to building an educational system that appeals to new generations lies in the field of Psychology.

    Much more federal funding should be spent on the development of nation-wide educational systems, college should be free, learning should be enjoyable. There's also too much rote memorization, and not enough critical thinking in these courses. Improve the mental functioning of our population, and we'll see every other area of society growing as well.

    Mental & Physical Health, Sciences, Arts, Technology should all be boosted. Teachers and scientists currently get paid crap, while athletes and actors are raking in millions? What the hell? Doctors are paid decently, which is good.. but more emphasis needs to be placed on mental health. Psychology and Technology will be among the most important areas for society to focus on during the 21st century.

    Free parenting programs should be made available, Psychologists and other professionals should be available to help families raise their children responsibly. Our nation's health benefits suck. People are paying hundreds of dollars for monthly medication? Fuck that. We spent how many billion dollars on military and overseas operations? Bullshit. Lower class citizens can barely afford community college. I mean, I can compromise on these issues, find the middle ground, but U.S. health & education need major improvements. I'm fine with homeland security, I just want money to go towards protecting residents, and no more to be wasted on military manufacturing and foreign affairs.

    Just wait, we'll all see what's going to happen in 10-15 years when economies really start feeling the heat of oil shortages, and if our society can't find the money to improve critical human resources now, it's not looking good for the "common population" as the 21st century rolls onward. Stockpile the money while you can, or find a self-reliant community nestled away from the rest of civilization.

    When I say the possibility of wars could dwindle away, I'm talking more about the far future, when social progression has led to better universal education, empathy, and social reciprocation. Humanity of the 21st century is absolutely going to fall victim to wars, I don't doubt that. The global energy crisis (worst-case scenario) has the potential to cripple societies around the globe and lead to major conflict fueled by shifting economies and the struggle for wealth. From a more optimistic viewpoint, improvements in science, education and technology could lead to the solutions needed in ending the energy crisis and improving society in the process.

    Wait, what was I talking about? Oh well, life is good.

    EdiT: Erebos mentioning Sisyphus reminded me of this.
    Last edited: May 8, 2007
  8. InnerStrength

    InnerStrength Well-Known Member

    I've thought about the validity of life in objective terms....alot. It almost made me go crazy trying to justify such an existence. Then a random thought hit me: do I really need one? Then another thought struck: what makes objectivity so special that everything needs to be validated through it?

    The mere fact that we exist is enough to validate that existence, I think. Also, I don't think life should be compared to the myth of Sisyphus. If one treats life with respect and intellectual curiosity, there is virtually no end to new experiences. Meaning of life? That's all up to the individual. No meaning of life? That's all up to the individual too, I suppose.
  9. Angelo_91

    Angelo_91 Well-Known Member

    Wow, reading this topic has really changed my perspective on things.... and I really feel a lot better about myself.
  10. Bostonensis

    Bostonensis Guest

    I believed people must have the right to end their life.But we need to have first the FREEDOM FROM RELIGION.
  11. Bostonensis

    Bostonensis Guest

  12. InnerStrength

    InnerStrength Well-Known Member

    You misunderstand me, Boston. All I said was that existence doesn't need to be justified through objectivity. I never said people that are suffering should hang on because of their loved ones. Strange, I think you get the impression that I am religious. I hope that's not the case, because I'm not. Religion had no influence on what I said.

  13. I am young. I am a child in many ways of the world and I will never grow old. I will die before my time, it is my fate. But, in my own small way I would like to think its all for something better...we as a people are trying to impress no one I wouldn't think. It's the ultimate meaning of life. Simply to exsist and leave our mark. When the sun consumes the earth perhaps some trace of our lives will live on. Maybe not. The purpose of life is to live it. To do more than exsist, but to breathe, and feel, and hope , and love. I don't know what I will see in "the void..." but I keep fighting because I know no other way. I keep fighting to breathe, to keep my control on what life I have left. I keep fighting because it is in my ability to do so. Just before my energy runs out and I give in I think of all of the things I'll never do when i'm gone. I am sick, and my body is tired, but I will fight on simply to enjoy the little things that one day will be taken from me against my will.
  14. Erebos

    Erebos Well-Known Member

    Sisyphus has no choice but to toil in his endless labour as deemed by the gods. Whether he find power, pain, enjoyment, anguish, accomplishment, or failure in his work seems irrelevant. What sets us apart from Sisyphus is that we always have the choice to stop pushing the boulder we call life. To realize the futility and simply give up. No higher power stands over us, whip in hand, forcing us to continue that slave labour. It's a luxury not granted to Sisyphus.

    Pushing the boulder is meaningless. Those of us who find purpose in pushing that rock do it for no more than a subjective illusion. It's true. We create our own respective purposes in life. We each have our own reasons to push that boulder. And many here find it too painful to continue pushing and simply want to give up. We mask the purposeless with our own illusions of purpose. Whether pushing the boulder will acquire us love, happiness, emotion, an eternity with Jesus etc, is something we each decide for ourselves. Of course, there's nothing wrong with this, but what about the people who've stepped out of the matrix and can no longer disguise the truth with illusion anymore?
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