Feelings on Wikileaks?

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by Mordeci, Oct 22, 2010.

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  1. Mordeci

    Mordeci Banned Member

    I figured I would just throw out the question, what everybody feel about wikileaks? I just had a conversation (more of an argument really with my sister) about what wikileaks are doing? My sister thinks that they are endangering the troops, while I think they are keeping goverments honest, any thoughts?
  2. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    They're doing both, plainly. Liberty and security are mutually exclusive to an extent.

    But they do redact any writings that endanger troops or others; they do have the safety of the troops and informants etc. in mind and do their best to maintain it.

    I personally feel that liberty's been lacking over the last 9 years, and it needs to be restored. Go Wikileaks!
  3. jasonkramer

    jasonkramer Well-Known Member

    very bad website. most of the low class people need not concern them selves with the dealing of the government. if you do wish to change the way things are then become an elite and change it from the top. if your at the bottom then just be a good little sheep and be quiet. nothing more annoying than rearing idiots yell about freedom, liberty and equality and condemning the government when they really have no clue about how things work. these are ideas you ever want to voice in a conservative small town or a big downtown liberal university. hostility may occur. poor me and my inability to get along with others when i open my mouth.

    and on the other hand do we still need info from the 50s to continually be considered classified?
  4. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    Ah, the Pentagon has condemned this latest release as threatening security - while yielding that, in fact, no harm has come as a result of the Afghanistan leak. Perhaps Wikileaks can improve liberty without harming security afterall.
  5. Krem

    Krem Well-Known Member

    Disgusting site. If things are legally kept private, then showing them is illegal, simple as that. I don't see why they've not been put down yet.

    ..but, hey, lawful neutral here. Rules: Good. :)
  6. Ziggy

    Ziggy Antiquitie's Friend

    The government lie to people, and when it's pointed out they're lying they say it's in the public interest. People listen to the news, they hear what they want / need to hear, so what's truth got to do with anything?
  7. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    Krem, what about international law? The latest (illegal) leak indicates the US has violated it...

    Which law trumps? Edit: By the way, the specific international laws broken here are those against torture, killing civilians and summary execution. The specific US law broken here is a law to ensure the military isn't accountable to the people.

    They've not been put down because they can't be put down. Thousands of people in dozens of countries have the unedited versions of the entirety of the leaks submitted to Wikileaks, and all it takes is one tweet with the password for that to be released... and it definitely will end up in harm if that happens. Go freedom!
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2010
  8. jasonkramer

    jasonkramer Well-Known Member

    in order for it to be a violation of IR law a international tribunal essentially has to say its a violation. at this point in time the ICC is the only international court that could bring a case. thus far they have seen over 100 cases related to the US violating the laws of war and each case was thrown out. so i highly doubt they they will go through with a case just because a website has printed documents about it. even if the ICC did bring a case against the US it would be pointless. the US has never signed the treaty to be apart of the ICC and has made deals with ICC members to ensure no American can even apprehended and sent to the Hague with out the US causing major diplomatic issue.

    at this point just about any nation can break international laws so long as the developed world, especially the UN security counsel, does not get mad. the right to sovereignty is about the only law that will cause most states to have an issue with the offender.
  9. rojomi

    rojomi Banned Member

    Condoleeza Rice stated on U.S. public T.V. YEARS ago that W. had prior knowledge of 9/11/01 and did NOTHING. Further, his administration along with his father's sheltered the Saudi Royal Family-of which Osama Bin Laden is a member. The U.S. 'government' created the current wars going on in the Middle East as a ploy to re-elect W. ANYONE who followed press during this time now knows this but won't admit it-they would be traitors.
    To WHAT? OIL? We murdered Saddam Hussein for no reason. G.W. Bush & Cheney have committed far more heinous crimes against the U.S. and they live in splendor. Both of them belong in Gitmo.
  10. Lovecraft

    Lovecraft Well-Known Member

    The United States: A case in point that complacency in the populace opens the door to governmental abuses - even in countries founded on the principals of freedom and a government accountable to people with guns.
  11. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    I don't expect them to be prosecuted but the people need to know.
  12. Krem

    Krem Well-Known Member

    Why do they need to know? Knowing this will not change their actions.
  13. sunshinesblack

    sunshinesblack Well-Known Member

    i think jaksoncramer is somewhat right with the exception youd be surprised how foolish middles class can be. As for me im from a poor country and all my efforts go into gating the chance for a good payng job and some actual freedom.
    Here most responsible people dont vote since they know all partyes have the same agenda, but we to get redneck votes, old people votes and rageing teens votes, (a lot of the working population is abroad and the ones that are not are working on it).
    And i dotn need to vote since I know who will win before the elections by which contestant gets most political advertising in my apolitical face before the elections, go figure.

    I have some studies in design and advertising and PR and I have a hard time imagining such a system as the american government can have actuall "leaks" advertised on Yahoo! and am only wondering of what are the chances of this being a advertising stunt to feed the growing rage of the public. I see its mostly about a war that has ended, i think if it where a real leak, you got that type of info when things where happening. Now its the end of the war and winner is communicating why they are slicing the pizza that way.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 29, 2010
  14. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    sunshineblack, that applies for the Iraq war, no doubt. If the files on the Iraq war were leaked before the 2004 election, though, things would have gone down very differently.

    And yes, it's wonderful that we have the freedom to leak things in the west - but with US senators branding the leakers "terrorists" that might not last long. It's times like these that you really see how we're slowly sliding into tyranny.
  15. sunshinesblack

    sunshinesblack Well-Known Member

    well good for yous than
    guess they sure are getting a lot of opposition
  16. Crue-K

    Crue-K Well-Known Member

    Agreed. Far to often, Governments cry 'national security' when it comes to information being made public, when in reality they just don't want their dirty little secrets known by it's citizens. The last lot of documents on Iraq were hardly endagering the lives of our troops and I very much doubt these will either. Governments should be transparent and accountable for their actions and rather than cry about classified documents being made public, they should amend their working practices and become more professional. The world needs whistleblowers, and rather them being called traitors, they should be hailed as hero's for being brave enough for putting themselves in the firing line to bring us the truth. We shouldn't be afraid of out Governments, they should be afraid of us.
  17. Zurkhardo

    Zurkhardo Well-Known Member

    Wikileaks's motivation (or I should say that of it's founder, Australian Julian Assange) is to present transparency for the people of the world. Ultimately, if the people are keen on having these sorts of things exposed, than it is by their mandate that it will continue, whether government likes it or not.

    On the flip side, if many people do in fact find the security of their country to be threatened, than the onus would be on them to act up against the site and for Assange to back down. Basically, it's up to the masses to decide to what extent they truly care to know this information versus believing its in their interest to let the government keep it's secrets.

    In any case, most of what has been 'exposed' has more or less been known - or at the very least suspected - by the academic community for some time. At most, it is merely validating theories or underlining established points.
  18. Confusticated

    Confusticated Well-Known Member

    If everything the government ever did was leaked and told to the citizens of the world, then even more war, terror and the likes would errupt. You can NOT keep everyone happy, it's as simple as that, so whilst some would agree with what was happening, others would disagree, which would cause the public to rebel against each other. The fights on the streets would become unbareable to the point that places would end up being quarantined and the army would have to walk the streets just to keep things in order. As much as I like to know what's going on in the Government, what they hide from us is always for good reason. Whether they're doing things that are right or wrong is not a factor here, because what is wrong in one eye, will be right in another. The minute we start finding out all the government is doing, is the second we break out amongst ourselves, as if the citizens of the world don't hate each other enough already.

    Nothing good can come from this.
  19. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    So hiding many, many facts from the people in order to justify starting the Iraq War was a good thing in your mind?
  20. Confusticated

    Confusticated Well-Known Member

    You're twisting what I'm trying to say. I have not agreed or disagreed with what the government are doing. Personally I think it's horrendous. But the fact of the matter is, there will always be people who agree and disagree, and with us being the human race, it will lead to a fight within ourselves. So I believe that yes, it should be kept confidential to an extent. If I could know with certaintly that it wouldn't cause a fight between citizens in which would only end up terribly, I'd change my mind and say the government shouldn't classify anything, but we all know that'd never happen.
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