Flu shot left Cheerleader Desiree Jennings with a neurological condition

Discussion in 'Opinions, Beliefs, & Points of View' started by Mikeintx, Oct 31, 2009.

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  1. Mikeintx

    Mikeintx Well-Known Member

  2. Axiom

    Axiom Account Closed

    That's horrible :( I hope she gets looked after by the health care system.

    I understand though that this is possible. I mean there are so many variations of humans and there will be people with unique conditions that make them susceptable to things that the average person is not. It's extrememly unforunate when this happens, and I hope she is taken care of.
    We don't have the facilities or technology to screen every individual person for all possible reactions to general vaccinations and prescriptions out there. I think the best the health care system can do is to look after Desiree and learn from this situation so we can be more prepared for this and other possible situations in the near future.
  3. lonercarrot

    lonercarrot Well-Known Member

    I don't know... Is it %100 certain that it was caused by the shot?

    Even if it was, weighing the costs- the shot saves hundreds of thousands of lives/year vs. how many people get sick..
  4. bhawk

    bhawk Well-Known Member

    How certain are you that shots save hundreds of lives?

    The new swine flu vaccine (well pretty much the same one from '76) contains squalene which causes guilliane barr syndrome, it contains high levels of mercury (seriously) and much more.
    The similar incident in the 70s had people vaccinated and it caused hundreds of deaths and injuries. The people afterwards sued but last year about the time the patent was accepted they put new legislation through which stops people having a claim if they are damaged by a vaccine, even if they are forced to take it and regardless of whether its been tested properly.

    It is ridiculous that hospitals refuse you and pharmacies dont allow you in if you have any flu symptoms. never before have we been turned away then told to ring an medically untrained phone operative for a diagnosis.
    Not only that but we are told to take th vaccine if we ALREADY HAVE IT.......
    Now from my limited understanding of vaccines they are a preventetive measure and would be useless during the illness!
  5. Issaccs

    Issaccs Well-Known Member

    Squalene is a natural compound found in a lot of vegetable oils and occurring naturally in the human body. That it causes gullien barr syndrome is ridiculous, more likely a response to the actual virus.
    And how about some proof that it contains dangerous levels of mercury, particularly when we consume that shit on a regular basis through.
  6. bhawk

    bhawk Well-Known Member

    Whilst squalene is a natural compound it becomes dangerous when injected into the blood stream due to the body attacking it then attacking all squalene in the entire body.
    Do your research into the vaccine. not hard and theres plenty of genuine sources out there, im not spoonfeeding people again.
  7. lonercarrot

    lonercarrot Well-Known Member

    They don't save hundreds of lives, they save hundreds of thousands. How? Because thousands of people die from the regular flu each year, so you would figure at least a few thousand who were vaccinated would have also died had they not had the shot. And millions of people have died in the past from influenza.

    Also, because so many people are vaccinated, the flu cannot spread as much therefore less people get sick. So even people who do not get the vaccine benefit.
  8. bhawk

    bhawk Well-Known Member

    however much ive searched i cant find any figures or proof of it.
    Whilst flu is a big killer i cant see any drops in figures with the introduction of the vaccine.
    Can you point me to some hard evidence please as i cant find none
  9. Issaccs

    Issaccs Well-Known Member

    " A link between the health problems of Gulf-War veterans and possible presence of squalene in vaccines received by these soldiers has been suggested. One published report has suggested that some army veterans who received anthrax vaccines developed anti-squalene antibodies and that these antibodies caused disabilities. However, squalene was not added to the vaccines administered to these veterans, nor was it used in the manufacturing process. Various papers have been published outlining the technical deficiencies in that original report.

    Most adults, particularly older ones, irrespective of their history of vaccination, have naturally occurring antibodies reacting with squalene. In a clinical trial, immunization with the licensed influenza vaccine containing squalene did not affect the frequency or titre of anti-squalene antibodies."

    Taken from the WHO.

    In other words, the studies that claimed the dangers where poorly conducted and the people effected had never even been exposed to these supposedly dangerous vaccinations and that the body actually behaves like this naturally, just like squalene is naturally present in the blood stream?
    What quack is feeding you all this trash.
  10. Zurkhardo

    Zurkhardo Well-Known Member

    What happened to that poor girl was certainly unfortunate :( Sadly, if anyone pays attention to the history and development of vaccines up to the present day, they'll find that it is widely known in the medical community that such incidents can occur. In fact, it's no secret that vaccines don't always work. It's just like any other medical procedure in that regard. But the consensus of the medical community is that the greater benefits of their use far outweigh the relatively rare adverse affects.

    Anecdotal evidence has shown that vaccines work. Once ubiquitous diseases such as measles, small box, TB, and the flu - once big and frequent killers worldwide - have declined in areas with regular vaccine usage. To use but one example: in 1958 there were close to 800,000 cases of measles and about 550 deaths. Since the advent of vaccines, there has only been an average of 150 cases a year, most of them among people that had never been vaccinated.

    Now yes, much of the decline in illness is also due to other factors: better hygiene, more nutritional diets (compared to in the past), better sewage and waste disposal systems, and so on. But many of these diseases still have high mortality rates with or without a strong immune system, so vaccines still did their part.
  11. Aeterna

    Aeterna Account Closed

    So out of the millions of vaccinations they are giving, we have a few complications, and therefore we shouldn't take vaccines?

    Risk assessment is not a specialty of humans, it seems.
  12. Mikeintx

    Mikeintx Well-Known Member

    I think more people should weigh the risk vs. benefits. Are you in the high risk category? Are you healthy? Are you in an industry where you come into contact with many people? Personally for myself, I would rather take my chances with the flu than have the 1 out of a 100k or whatever the risk is of one of these neurological disorders. I do think it is rediculous they are talking about making the flu shot mandatory though.
  13. Rosenrot

    Rosenrot Forum Buddy

  14. Aeterna

    Aeterna Account Closed

    Assume the virus only has an infection rate of 1/10 (only 10% of the population) and a kill rate of 1/1000 infected. That matches the 1 in 100,000k risk you take by getting a vaccine.

    As far as I understand it, the odds for death from H1N1 are much higher, and the odds for death from vaccine are much, much lower than that.
  15. Mikeintx

    Mikeintx Well-Known Member

    Yeah and id rather die I think then live with what that cheerleader caught, I cant imagine how horrible that is. But if I catch swine flu I may change my tune ;)
  16. fromthatshow

    fromthatshow Staff Alumni SF Supporter

    sad stuff
  17. bhawk

    bhawk Well-Known Member

    Ive got it now!!!! tis pretty shit but not as lethal as made out to be. Hopefully ill be better soon. Definately overestimated!
    For the risk involved with the vaccine i would rather have a week of illness!
  18. Aeterna

    Aeterna Account Closed

    You took more of a risk by stepping in your car and driving to wheresoever you caught it than you would have by getting a vaccine.
  19. me1

    me1 Well-Known Member

    Presumably we have to 'assume' that the vaccine actually works aswell as there isn't any scientific proof, nor would it be possible to get any as it would require exposing a group of 'unprotected' persons to the causative agent so that they can serve as a control group. Which is deemed to be unethical. Most cases of diseases vaccinated against occur amongst vaccinated persons.

    Besides, the people who die of these conditions generally, and possibly always, have serious underlying health problems. Claiming that 1 in 1000 people die of disease 'x', and you've just made that number up anyway, as you admit, isn't the same as saying that -anyone- of the 1000 hypothetical people had an equal chance of being the one that died.
  20. bhawk

    bhawk Well-Known Member

    but thats a risk i have full knowledge of and i am willing to take. Many countries are talking of making the H1N1 vaccine mandatory, that alone is an absolute nightmare, having the state forcing poisons into your body or forcibly medicating you.
    By doing so they will break so many laws and rights which are inalienable regardless of what statute they put through.
    Also with the car i believe it to be a necessity for me to go about my business in the modern world (not necessity for life) and the vaccine is not a necessary part of either life or my business, it only has predictions saying how many lives it will save with no substantial evidence backing it. My car is my personal choice which i take upon myself with eyes wide open to the possibilities.
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