Gay marriages and abortions

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by suicide_ideation, Jun 5, 2007.

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  1. These seem to be the most important moral issues in America, particularly amongst conservatives.

    These things don't hurt anyone.

    They are only important to religious idealogists. 'Cause they live in a fantasy fairytale world.

    If you've read my previous posts you'd know that I oppose both.

    But now that I'm no longer a Christian, I don't have any reason to make these issues my priorities.

    As a humanist, my priorities are human (and animal) suffering, and poverty.

    I wanna relieve suffering.

    How can anyone be stuck on gay marriage.

    I am against LUST, and sexual immorality, as I said in my other posts.

    This is so confusing, I'm trying to look at this and other issues as openly as I can, and from all angles, and considering all kinds of philosophies, and it's just a conflict. Anyway I'll stop here.

    Are these issues keeping us behind? Can you be against them, and I am, without religious idealogy?

    Religious idealogy seems to make them bigger than they truly are. Without this delusion, would we be wasting so much energy on abortion and gay marriage?
     
  2. ACRon

    ACRon Well-Known Member

    how can you relieve suffering if your against what humans crave naturally re: the deadly sins? If I am ever suffering its because I am deprived of the things which make me feel most alive.

    as I said in the other thread politics goes over my head, Im looking at your post through rose tinted specs to coin a phrase because Im stupid
     
  3. You're not stupid, I'm quite ignorant.

    I am against all deadly sins, because I believe in unselfishness.

    I don't think that we're all unselfish by nature. I am, and it's therefore easy for me to speak.

    It's hard to have any understanding and sympathy for the greedy and perverted because of the very nature of their problem. Which they don't acknowledge as a problem, cuz they rationalize it.

    ''The only way to utopia is through unselfishness.''
    Here's a quote I just invented. :)
     
  4. ACRon

    ACRon Well-Known Member

    your quote, John Lennon said something similar, I think, something about newtopia. Its a fantastic dream, and one I live with everyday. (thats untill the nightmares I had whilst smoking pot a few years ago wear off) They did so much crazy stuff in the seventies didn't they. a lot of their ideologies are remniscant of Sikhism, I however disagree with the totalitarian approach to politics. I feel that power corrupts, and total power corrupts totally. If a totalitarian government ever did take over, I would gladly hang myself. Id give up all hope I think. Just me, on my own, chewing on a bone, what is a boy to do
     
  5. Suicide rates are lower in totalitarian states
     
  6. Esmeralda

    Esmeralda Well-Known Member

    I am absolutely against abortion, but then, I am a Catholic, so I think it's tantamount to murder. I don't think you have to believe in God to be against abortion, especially 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions, as we know the babies can actually feel physical pain at this stage.

    If someone is agnostic, then I suppose if you think there is even the slightest chance that the soul exists, then you should err on the side of caution where human life is concerned.

    It is a crime against nature for a mother to kill her own child.

    As far as gay marriage goes, being a Catholic, the wedding cannot take place in a Catholic church, which I agree with. As far as a civil wedding, I don't really care much. I suppose you could say that homosexuality unnatural, not leading to stable families or pro-creation, so you could say it is wrong on those grounds alone, but many will argue against that.
     
  7. ACRon

    ACRon Well-Known Member

    Yes, I cant imagine Megatron, or any other transformer bieng inclined to kill themselves if they lived in Iraq pre-occupation (under totalitarian rule)

    when your bieng blead dry by a totalitarian government and your working your ass off safe in the knowledge that you don't have to vote because everything is safely under control I would imagine its a little easier.

    The Sunnies in Iraq are a kind bunch of people, as are the shi'ites. there is another faction aswell but I can't remember who they are, information from Iraq is sparse
     
  8. ~Nobody~

    ~Nobody~ Well-Known Member

    See "The Suicide" on stage. It was performed recently in London under the name "Dying For It" which helped me as it was a free adaptation in English, rather than in Russian :tongue:.
     
  9. ACRon

    ACRon Well-Known Member

    thats really weird, my Mum went to see that, my mum is such a clever clogs though. I tried taking the piss out of her with it but she knows the difference between a play and reality, she's all abstract, damn those super intelligent artists. grrrrr:tongue:
     
  10. thepaper

    thepaper Member

    Abortions-Why abort when you can let a new life live? You can just give it up for adoption.

    Gay Marriages-HELL YEAH!!!
     
  11. Twisted Sweet Lies

    Twisted Sweet Lies Well-Known Member

    I'm for abortions in most cases. If the mother is really sick and can't handle it or is in danger of dieing I say get one or if they know the baby won't make it sometimes an abortion is the best option. Then if a girl is raped I think she should have that option of abortion.

    As for gay marrage I'm not really sure. In my book it's a sin but is no worse then any other sin and everyone sins so I can't say much there.
     
  12. Darken

    Darken Well-Known Member

    gay marriage- nothing to say really, except that its wrong to deny gays equal rights and people know it. Theyre are no different economically. There is no reason to deny them their rights. The only people that are against it are influenced by religion into thinking that its wrong, but have no good reason why gays should not be able to marry other wise.

    abortion- I think their are some justifiable reasons for it and others are not. If you just dont want the baby you should not just kill it, especially if there is adoption services available. If docters have evidence the baby will have trouble living or will be handicaped etcetera than they should be able too have the abortion if they choose to.
     
  13. Jenny:[

    Jenny:[ Active Member

    Why worry about abortions???
    It is not the unborns fault that mommy couldn't keep her legs shut. Nothing deserves to be treated that way. I don't care what your argument is, unless it is rape, then and ONLY then is it perfectly understandable.
    Gay marriages should be banned. A mother and father figure and only a mother and father figure are suitable for children. I USED TO BE A LESBIAN. I HAVE MANY GAY AND LESBIAN FRIENDS. I UNDERSTAND THEIR INTENTIONS, BUT IT IS NOT SUITABLE. ONLY A MAN AND WOMAN SHOULD BE ABLE TO MARRY.
     
  14. leptoon

    leptoon Well-Known Member

    I think that if a woman doesn't want to have a baby, she wouldn't be forced to. So I totally agree with abortions.

    I also completely agree with gay marriage. Every person should be treated equally regardless of whether ignorant religious people think it's a "sin". Gays and lesbians are no less of people than straight people.
     
  15. Thanks for the comments, and keep sharing them. I wanna re-emphasize that I'm not religious and that I hate all christians, and that I oppose sodomy and abortion. But that these issues are not important enough.

    The real moral issue in America is extreme POVERTY. Social justice and economic fairness, the environment, etc.

    That's an answer to Zoh, saying that you gotta be religious to oppose abortion and G. M.

    So while I oppose them, I think that conservatives because of their christian delusion and idealogy have blown it out of proportion.

    And that it's not productive and realistic, and keeping us behind.
     
  16. Darken

    Darken Well-Known Member

    How is it not suitable? Do you have any evidence to support that? denying a group of people their rights that every one else has it just wrong. Its just as wrong as racism.

    Reply to suicid_ideation. I did not mean, you have to be religious, I just meant its the cause of most people who have that opinion. You oppose anal and oral sex? okay.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2007
  17. ~Nobody~

    ~Nobody~ Well-Known Member

    Don't knock it, it was a fantastic play. And the Almeida is a fantastic venue. It was so moving.

    This made me so angry. But I am going to keep my cool here.

    I find your statement "It is not the unborns fault that mommy couldn't keep her legs shut" very offensive. Even after reading that you reckon rape is the exception. What about when the mother and child would die if the pregnancy progessed, as is the case in many ectopic pregnancies? Do you seriously advocate the death of both, rather than saving the life of the mother??

    If straight marriages are alright then gay marriages are too. I think you'll find that a loving homosexual couple (of either gender) would make far better parents than the millions of unloving/abusive/absent mummies and daddies that there are in this world. If a parentless child can be given a loving, caring home, then I'm all for it. Even if it's only a single parent. Even if it's a homosexual couple. There's no evidence to suggest that homosexual couples are "unfit" to raise a child. In fact, that child would probably turn out to be a far more rounded and tolerant individual than *cough* certain other people. :rolleyes:

    I find your statement "I used to be a lesbian" completely fucking ridiculous. Either you are a lesbian or you are not. That makes no sense. :dry:
     
  18. Esmeralda

    Esmeralda Well-Known Member

    You HATE all Christians? That's pretty dick.
     
  19. chasing_dreams

    chasing_dreams Well-Known Member

    Couldn't have said any of that better myself :hug:
     
  20. ACRon

    ACRon Well-Known Member


    stand by your beleifs, but I find it a bit weird you started a thread on gay marriage and abortions and the dismissed its relevance as secondary to that of poverty. that deserves another thread
     
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