God doesn't care

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by seithkein, Jul 24, 2008.

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  1. seithkein

    seithkein Well-Known Member

    I have reasons to believe that God doesn't care. I mean he lets thousand of people kill themselves everyday, what makes you think that he cares about you and that he will better your life. We are not special and he doesn't care.
     
  2. Petal

    Petal SF dreamer Staff Alumni SF Supporter

    I only half-heartedly believe in God, but I still pray in the hope that there is a loving God. I can see your point though, why does he allow all of this pain and suffering to happen? Only God knows. :hug:
     
  3. middleofnowhere

    middleofnowhere Well-Known Member

    Have you been a parent? No matter how much you love and care for your children, bad things come their way. Is it your fault? People who grow up in perfectly functional homes, with everything they need, commit suicide. Should we blame their loving parents?

    God made a perfect world. The problem is that we and God's enemy, Satan, seem to do our best to mess it up. Is that God's fault? The only way God can be blamed for all the bad in our world is if we became robots totally under his control. Then we'd accuse him of being a control freak.

    If blame is to be placed I think odds are it couldn't be placed with God.
     
  4. Stranger1

    Stranger1 Forum Buddy & Antiquities Friend

    I beleive in the great spirit not so much god. Could be they are one in the same. The only difference is the great spirit has given his people the knowlege that all life is precious, so don't take advantage. In the end it won't matter because man has already killed parts of this planet and he won't be happy until he kills it completely.:chopper:
     
  5. LightInTheDarkestNight

    LightInTheDarkestNight Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure there is a good maybe there is, maybe there isn't. I know 2 years ago when I was feeling horrible physically wise I would pray and I said in a 2-3 years if Ihaven't done anything just end it for me maybe that's my denstiny. either that or I have horrible luck and end up making bad desicions
     
  6. worlds edge

    worlds edge Well-Known Member

    It is logically impossible to have both an omniscient deity and free will in humans or any other creature. As in, a being that is omniscient is not bound by time. So, it knew who was going to kill themselves before the world was created. Presumably it wanted it that way.
     
  7. Light_In_The_Dark

    Light_In_The_Dark Well-Known Member

    I dunno why ppl believe that God can control our actions and life and make it good. I strongly believe in God and Bible says that everything evil that happens in the world comes from sin that came from the humans. Its up to humans to make this life good and help everybody and thats impossible. For the last time, GOD CAN'T CONTROL YOUR LIFE!
     
  8. worlds edge

    worlds edge Well-Known Member

    Do you believe in an omniscient God? If so, you believe that it has pefect knowledge of all actions, past, present and future.

    Except of course, that the Bible says no such thing. Re-read the Book of Exodus. Pharaoh is stripped of his free-will and turned into some sort of walking meat puppet.

    Viz:

    Exodus 7:

    Ex, Ch. 11:

    Ex, Ch. 14:

    .

    So, assuming we're not supposed to interpret Exodus metahphorically, does anyone wish to posit that Pharaoh was acting as a free agent? :laugh: And please note I didn't quote all the passages like the above. There're a lot more.

    On to the Book of Joshua, a mass-murdering thug and ethnic-cleansing savage. God's instrument, a consciousless murderer. But, I digress. My point here is that God also did the turn humans into walking meat puppets here, explicitly for no end other than to get them to walk into Joshua's meat grinder...

    So, if you believe the Bible you cannot believe that all bad things happen via human failings and under the action of free-will. I've shown you you're wrong. Unless of course thing like "extermination" are okay in your book?


    Does your God have perfect and complete knowledge of the future? Yes or no?
     
  9. jipjoe

    jipjoe Member

    I find error in that logic. If this God cared then why have so many children died through no fault of their own at birth? What did the parents and child do to deserve this? Sin?

    The Bible was made by man for man's belief all of which were tossed around and debated as to what should go into the final version-you now have a Bible from God. Imagine what would go into a Bible today if we had to make another version-The Bible II.:biggrin:

    If God cannot control our actions then why bother with him at all? What can he possibly teach us up there
    once we are done down here. People say God works in mysterious ways and they are very correct. Sometimes he works and often times he takes days off.
     
  10. Issaccs

    Issaccs Well-Known Member

    Your absolutly right, but its not his fault, its hard to care when you don't even exist.
     
  11. Atheist Demon

    Atheist Demon Account Closed

    You can tell by the first word in my user name of what I think of god.
     
  12. Anime-Zodiac

    Anime-Zodiac Well-Known Member

    God is an alien.
     
  13. Esmeralda

    Esmeralda Well-Known Member

    I fail to see how God KNOWING what we as human individuals will do adds up to CONTROLLING what we do. They are 2 seperate things.

    For example, a parent may KNOW that their child is going to have a party when they go out of town. They may tell that child not to have a party, but if they know their child well enough, they are pretty certain of what will happen regardless. Does that mean that the parent is just never going to go on vacation because of this? No. They teach the child the best they can and hope that the lessons they have taught them will ensure that they make good decisions the majority of the time, all the while knowing that they will eventually eff it up at some point.
     
  14. bleach

    bleach Well-Known Member

    Parents are neither omniscient nor omnipotent, so the comparison is pointless really. Parents do the best they can under human limitations.

    God created everything that makes us what we are, whether in a Biblical sense (tree of knowledge, snake) or biological one (designing us from the molecule up). And did so with full certainty of how we would live our lives for the better or worse, because He knows all.

    Then He blames the victims by saying "I gave you free will, so it's really your fault for straying from My design... "

    God's take on the moral failings of man:

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0369339/quotes
    >>
    Max: I think he's dead.
    Vincent: Good guess.
    Max: You killed him?
    Vincent: No, I shot him. Bullets and the fall killed him.
    >>

    It's called cause and effect. Every human in the world has intuitive grasp of it. An omnipotent, omniscient God has no right to be wagging fingers at anyone of his creations, no matter how 'evil'. Because they are exactly what he created them to be.
     
  15. JohnADreams

    JohnADreams Well-Known Member

    The comparison is valid because both parents and God both understand that you have to allow your children to make their own mistakes in life in order to learn from them and grow. I dont know why anyone thinks that the existence of evil, invalidates the idea of God. It's not as if evil doesnt have it's place in the world, that it doesnt help encourage new ways of thinking and offer challenges to overcome. A life without hardship under an all powerful God would be meaningless and stagnant because there would be nothing to strive for or accomplish.
     
  16. Will

    Will Staff Alumni

    God doesn't necessarily 'not care'.

    What alot of people above are saying, is true. Remember though, that the situation of the earth is in turmoil.

    1 John 5:19 - "The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one"

    The world itself isn't in the control of God, rather, Satan. This was predicted to happen. And in the bible books of Timothy, it goes into depth a bit more:

    2 Timothy 3:1-5:
    "But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up [with pride], lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away."

    There are terrible people. Everywhere. Alot of the bad things that happen to us aren't because of God. He isn't causing it. Remember too that these evil things of people are not God's desires, they are not God's thoughts.

    Isaiah 55:8, 9:
    "For the thoughts of YOU people are not my thoughts, nor are my ways YOUR ways,” is the utterance of Jehovah. “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so my ways are higher than YOUR ways, and my thoughts than YOUR thoughts."

    With the world in the situation that it's in, it's not God's fault, nor desire that these things go on. People are evil, they have wicked desires and habits, and bad things will happen.

    Remember too, that not all terrible things are because of wickedness. Remember that there is such thing as 'accidents', and 'mistakes'.

    Ecclesiastes 9:11, 12:
    "I returned to see under the sun that the swift do not have the race, nor the mighty ones the battle, nor do the wise also have the food, nor do the understanding ones also have the riches, nor do even those having knowledge have the favor; because time and unforeseen occurrence befall them all.For man also does not know his time. Just like fishes that are being taken in an evil net, and like birds that are being taken in a trap,so the sons of men themselves are being ensnared at a calamitous time, when it falls upon them suddenly."

    Alot fo what's going on isn't his fault :sad:. Alot of these things are part of how this world has become.

    (Scriptures taken from the "New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures")
     
  17. Entoloma43

    Entoloma43 Well-Known Member

    Well, yes it would. God is all knowing so before he created Satan, he knew he would do his best to mess it up, but God did it anyways.


    If God is all powerful, he can still put meaning into our lives and have things to strive to accomplish without the hardship.


    If God is all powerful, he could take control of the world. If Satan is in control it shows that
    a) God is not all powerful
    b) He chooses Satan to be in control
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 25, 2008
  18. AlexDanish

    AlexDanish Account Closed

    Hey hey hey, let's fuck the scriptures for a second, huh? They have a very God-Leaning Bias, at least I've found from my readings.

    1) Original Sin

    Oh! What a way to begin, we inherit sin. Isn't that wonderful? Hey God. If you knew Adam and Eve were gonna eat from the tree, TAKE OUT THE FUCKING TREE. Yeah, we can still have free will and make our own choices, just not ones that, I dunno, dooms the human race?

    2) It's not Gods fault

    How is it not his fault? He created us, and he created the angels. The angels turned, (Lucifer and whatever) and then were all badass and did that boring blah blah blah shit in the garden. How isn't it his fault? He should have created better angels... Or maybe just like, killed them off or something. Millions of people, hundreds of generations suffer because of the actions of two people at the garden? Rape? Abuse? Diseases like Cancer?
    Murder? I'm not asking God to come down on a flaming chariot and magically eradicate all evil. Just give us a fucking sign your here. Not a sign like "She survived a car crash... She should have died. OMGMIRACLESIGN" but something more. I dunno.
     
  19. Entoloma43

    Entoloma43 Well-Known Member

    Not only did he knew they would eat from the tree, he chose to make their choices to screw over the rest of us.

    I had no part in what Adam and Eve's decided to do, yet I am paying for it.

    It would be like, a father committing murder, and then us charging the children with murder even if they played no part.
     
  20. AlexDanish

    AlexDanish Account Closed

    "Oh, I created humans. Hey, I'll also create this tree that if they eat from they'll let sin enter in and death and disease and disharmony and war. Pretty good tree. Man, I'm a great architect. Oh look, they ate from it after one of the angels I created turned bad and went down and convinced them to do it without telling them of a full consequences. Time to let earth become a living hell-hole for millions of years. I'll just go over here and watch."
     
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