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Going round in circles. Is there actually any help for me?

Discussion in 'Rants, Musings and Ideas' started by Butterfly, Sep 30, 2013.

  1. Butterfly

    Butterfly Sim Addict Staff Alumni SF Author SF Supporter

    I am beginning to feel extremely exasperated with seeking help, because there just doesn't seem to be any actually out there for me. It's such a lonely and hopeless position to be in. Let me explain.

    I began seeking help in January 2011 for a bout of depression that had lasted for 2-3 months or so. I began seeing my GP, who was very supportive and started me on Citalopram. The medication did help to numb things out for a while, but that's all I ever really felt was numb. After a month or so, she increased the dose. After the first dose increase to 40mg I had my first bout of unpleasant changes. I began having racing thoughts, feeling agitated, having far too much energy than I knew what to do with. Before starting the medication, over the years I had quite mild up's and down's, where for a couple of weeks I'd feel really good, positive, take up new hobbies etc then it would begin to fizzle out and then I'd feel quite down for a couple of weeks, but it did eventually right itself. This would happen every few months or so, but it didn't impact on me too badly so I never really thought it was abnormal. I had very dramatic mood cycles as a teenager, and a period of severe depression that resulted in a bad suicide attempt, but I did begin to recover from that after having therapy and treatment. But this time, the depression just wasn't shaking off despite all I had previously learned from my therapy when I was 15.

    Anyway, my GP ended up stopping the Citalopram, and changed my medication to Fluoxetine. I was only able to tolerate this medication for just under 2 weeks. It triggered severe suicidal ideation and crazy nightmares and I ended up taking a couple of overdoses. I couldn't take it anymore so I went to A&E. I told the mental health liaison nurse how I'd been feeling. He asked me about my past mental health, and when I said that my depression took a turn for the worse when I moved towns and got bullied at my new school, he immediately attributed things to that. Everything I said after that, didn't matter. Although I didn't feel very supported and like it was a great waste of time, he did refer me on to a therapy and counselling service. So a couple of months passed, and I got a letter in the post saying that a CPN was going to take on my care. I found out through him that the service had rejected my referral because of my impulsive behaviour and history of self harm, and was deemed to be too high risk for their service. The aim of the CPN was to get me at a point where I could be re referred back to the service. But things only seemed to unravel fast. The paranoia, anxiety, delusions got worse and I started seeing and hearing things despite another medication change onto sertraline. The CPN referred me to a psychiatrist for a bipolar assessment, and he discharged me from his care.

    But since seeing the psychiatrist, my moods have fluctuated more. The impulsive behaviour and psychotic episodes have become more frequent despite another 2 medication changes (onto Quetiapine at several doses, then she added Duloxetine in conjunction with the anti psychotic, then she stopped the anti psychotic because it was affecting my concentration at work too much and was just on a higher dose of Duloxetine which is nearly maxed out). She has not listened to me, lied to me and has taken 2 years to just basically faff about doing nothing. I have been under the crisis team at one point because things got so bad, but because I still wanted to go to work they told me I was not serious or suicidal enough for them and left in the dark AGAIN without anything. I have paid for private therapy, and whilst he helped me with coping mechanisms, he felt that's all he could do with me because he felt my problems were more of a chemical imbalance rather than looking at thought processes and triggers. I understood this, and I agreed with him and told my psychiatrist this also. He brought our sessions to an end, but left his door open to me if I needed him in a crisis.

    At my last psych appt, my psych said that she still couldn't see symptoms of mania (because everytime she schedules her appts I'm always cycling through depression) but agreed that my episode I was having was bipolar depression. I've kept several mood diaries several times to show her when my moods are elevated, when I'm psychotic, when I'm depressed and to me it follows a very predictable cycle. I felt like I was finally getting somewhere, and she referred me to a group therapy CBT programme. And that brings me onto today. Today was the day of my assessment. And let me just add, I attended today's appointment following a night shift and didn't go home and waited in town until my appt at 12pm. So I go to the appt, therapist introduces herself and explains the services and therapies that they provide. And I am already thinking, I do not qualify for any of this. The first one was for a group of terribly self critical people, with severe triggers and was a more peer support kind of based CBT. I did not qualify for that because I am not overly self critical, I don't have any known triggers either. Therapist said I do not qualify, and for other reasons too. The second option was a type of CBT based for chronically depressed people, who can barely motivate themselves to do anything. I did not qualify for that either, because I go to work and have a routine etc. The last one was a mindfulness based CBT. It sounded like I could have possibly qualified for that, but the therapist didn't think it was appropriate, because a lot of the group members for that programme are people chronically depressed, out of work and generally very pessimistic. She felt it would be too detrimental and could potentially make things worse for me. She said that the service they provide is people in that "last chance saloon" and I was not at that point. She said it sounded like I needed to be referred to a less intense service, back to rightsteps. I almost cried. I told her that whilst I understood why she could not offer me therapy and treatment, I've been in this cycle for 2 years, waiting for this assessment for two years because rightsteps rejected my referral because of the impulsiveness and self harm, and that it is worse now than it was then. She did see my point, and I think she saw the amount of pain and frustration I was feeling. She said she would discuss my case at the therapy referrals MDT on Thursday, to talk to her colleagues to discuss where to go next. She said she didn't want me to just literally go back to having nothing again. So it's now a waiting game again. She said the next possible option is a referral to psychology, BUT I know how long the waiting list is. I will be AGAIN waiting around for something that probably I'll be told I don't fit into their criteria. I also found out from the therapist that my psych had put down on the referral UNIPOLAR, not bipolar, so again, my psych is lying to me. She sent the referral after she told me about the bipolar depression. I was wrong to think I was actually getting somewhere.

    I feel so disheartened. I felt, worthless, exasperated and so alone. The rage pulsed through my body as I left the appointment. Whilst I understand their decision, it doesn't make it any less painful. Back to square one. The feeling of going backwards rather than going forwards. I just don't feel like there is a point anymore. I am just, not mild enough or not severe enough. It took everything I had not to go and do something reckless and impulsive as I left. I have always tried, because I don't want to die. But I CANNOT live like this either. I don't want to have to lose everything I have by completing losing it just to get myself into that "severe" category. I feel so triggered, I actually feel triggered by something!!!! I'm obviously so worthless and not worth anybody's help. Maybe when I was psychotic I was right, maybe they are trying to kill me. Maybe there is a mind control device, maybe they are watching my every move through secretly planted camera's, maybe they are secretly and subtly taunting me, making me think I'm crazy. Maybe I wasn't imagining it all or delusional. But I must have been crazy to think that anybody would help me.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 30, 2013
  2. WildCherry

    WildCherry Staff Member ADMIN

    You DO deserve help, and I can't imagine how frustrated you must be at this point. Because I'm not familiar with how things work there, I don't really have any suggestions. Just wanted to offer a :hug: and lots of support. As hard as it is to keep going, I hope you continue to fight for the help you need and deserve!
  3. Butterfly

    Butterfly Sim Addict Staff Alumni SF Author SF Supporter

    I don't know how much I've got left in the tank. I'm giving everything I have to stay safe and not do anything stupid. But I don't know why. What's the point when I'm always going to feel like this? I'd better just face it, the only way to escape this is to either die, or fuck up spectacularly and lose everything, which will probably kill me anyway.
  4. scamp

    scamp New Member

    I'm totally new to this, Butterfly, as I've never posted on any site like this before... so bear with me, please.

    I've been asking myself what's the point for months now and I honestly haven't found any good answer. Oh the only answer is don't do it because your family will be hurt, but frankly after all the shit they unleashed on me, I'm at the point I don't care how they feel. I'm so tired. I just want to go to sleep for 100 years aka forever.

    I guess I popped in to validate your feelings of futility and exhaustion.
  5. Event_Horizon

    Event_Horizon SF Supporter

    Unfortunately I am still on the phone, but I am typing a response at the same time, know you are not alone and you certainly are not worthless. I do have a response for you but it is an honest one, not a hug rainbows and pet kittens one. Sometimes the truth of things is painful and I assure you, you are not alone in your experiences and I will try and do my best to help you, to the upper ceiling limit of what I am able. You have saved my life in the past with out even knowing it. This means I have been able to go on and keep on assisting others and put food in children's bellies. We all affect one another, we are all connected and can create positive influence. You do just that and likely have for many others you are not even aware of. You can't know how those positive ripples play out but you started them. If that makes you worthless then you have a distorted view of the word worth which I will keep challenging you on. Do not give in to the hopelessness just yet. It is not as black and white as you paint it to be. There are still options and avenues. I will get back to you I promise.

    Oh and get rid of calling your self the scum of the earth. Trust me the scum of the earth I aim to get put in concrete cubes. You don't fit that definition.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 30, 2013
  6. Event_Horizon

    Event_Horizon SF Supporter


    I find it a little bit disturbing you want to validate feelings of futility and exhaustion on a forum called Suicide Forum. The clue is kind of in the name and it does not take much further logic to realise what that may mean. Commiserating is acceptable, validating is not. But I do have a question or two for you before you further validate negatives of people that struggle enough with their own negativity. What do you feel you need from life? Where is the frustration coming from? What have you done to help your self? How can you get rest if you are exhausted? That is if death or coma was not an option.

    Also welcome to the site but it is a place to try and support and encourage one another positively, not feed into a downward spiral. I understand you yourself are in a negative space. So why not talk it out? Maybe in doing so solutions can be found. Or it may just be helpful to vent.
  7. Event_Horizon

    Event_Horizon SF Supporter


    Okay raw honesty time. This might hurt, sorry. But I don't mince my words. At points I ask you direct questions and should you respond I would quite like you to answer them as it may give me insight into how I can help.

    Well just from going on what you have said. It seems your Psychiatrist is rather toxic. You have enough struggles with out constantly returning to a toxic person that just keeps on disappointing. That is like repeatedly being poisoned and wondering why you are sick. I am fairly certain this relationship is not a healthy one.

    So you should perhaps aim to change psychiatrists. But under the NHS this is very hard as there are significant shortages, not helped by all the cost cutting and mental health being the ass end of health care even at the best of times. If you feel you are not engaged in a therapeutically beneficial relationship you can certainly request another. But unfortunately they have complete legal right to utterly refuse. Sometimes those ego driven psychiatrists view this as an insult and will intentionally become adversarial. So making this request is like playing chicken and wrecking any amicable relationship that may still exist at this time. You will have to weigh up if the risk is worth it.

    If you do wish to play chicken then you could simply state that, 'You feel the therapeutic relationship has entirely broken down as such no benefit can be had from these sessions.' You will however gain nothing from telling them how much they suck and how much you don't agree with their opinion or their treatment plan. You cannot challenge them on that. This just makes you sound like a crazy person with no mental capacity to know what is good for yourself and did you train exclusively for many years to be a psychiatrist?

    Stick to just the repetitive phrase or variations of, 'I feel the therapeutic relationship has entirely broken down. It may be beneficial to both of us if you could transfer me to another doctor that I may have better rapport with. Or if you do not think that appropriate how can we salvage this?'

    If you ask that last question you shift the onus back on them to now find a solution. It also torpedoes somewhat the idea you are engaged in projection and your willing to work towards improving. It also takes the burn out of the idea that you are slating them. You can also contact your GP and ask them. But again final decision rests on your current Psychiatrist. You could request them to in writing explain why it is they think a transfer is not appropriate and how things can be improved instead. Again this gives them more work to do and puts the onus back on them to find a solution. But they may refuse to even do that. You could go further and write to the medical director and explain your reasoning as to why you want a transfer. Should you do that keep to dull professional language. Be sure to mention the phrase 'You feel the therapeutic relationship has entirely broken down.' You also legally have no right to be granted a second opinion unfortunately.

    You could always ask the Psychiatrists why she thinks you are Unipolar and what has brought them to that conclusion? You could also request with the data protection act access to your records. But you will have pay for some of that. I think the upper limit is £50. If your psychiatrist is ego driven or prone to a god complex then they may continue to be adversarial. They can refuse you access to your mental health records on the grounds it may be possibly damaging to your mental health. But they then have to actually then justify that and you can attempt to force the issue if they do block you. We can cross that bridge should you come to it.

    This also might make you seem like a bit of a pain in the ass all of a sudden. Because they are under horrific case loads already and you are adding more work. Most people like to get rid of pains in the ass and people that pile more seemingly unnecessary work on their desk. ;) I am sure you know just what I mean.

    Sadly should they grant your request you may have to wait once more, the waits right now are obscenely long and further services are shutting down making the strain and wait even longer. Sorry my friend that is just the way it is. Blame Tory and Libdem scum, gutting the NHS and setting it up to fail, painting a picture that private interests will save the day. That uninformed people seem to believe in the same way they believe NHS nurses are out to kill their granny.

    As for access to therapeutic services they often fall in narrow fields of what they can and can't accept. This is not intentional rejection as if they think you are worthless and it is good you can see that even though it feels bitterly disappointing. This is down to legalities. Since you engage in self harm they may not have adequate coverage to accept you. Irritatingly you fall in the gap in services. Trust me you are not alone being lost down in that ever widening gap.

    So moving away from that. It may be better to engage in some self reflection and strengthen yourself against the assault of your own mind while you wait. You seem aware you need some kind of help. So lets play the ideal circumstances game.

    If help could be given to you, what would that help look like? What do you expect from it and what would you like it to consist of? What would be the ideal? Please think on that and then answer. The reason I ask that is it will give me an idea of what you are looking for. Sometimes we have an unreasonable expectation of help, sometimes what we feel we need does not exist in current reality even though we feel it should. So instead of raging against what may not exist. It is better to refocus those energies on what does and how you access it. As well as trying to simply improve your own quality of life. So your days of feeling like, 'I CANT live like this are reduced.' Sadly butterfly we have conditions that makes those sorts of days prevalent at points. You may just have to accept that even though that kind of acceptance is painful. This is why it is important when well enough to maximise those things that strengthen us and nurture us. You have used a car analogy so let me tell you what my fuel is.

    For me it can be summed up as friends, my father, watching films with mates, helping some one in a positive manner. Victories over injustice. Writing scathing satire, fiction or potentially helpful guides. Yoga, playing the Djembe. Going to a restaurant with my father. Lasagne. Debating a vast array of topics. Reading about science. Computer games, especially Rpgs or anything with zombies. Plus plenty of others.

    You might be thinking how are zombies fuel? Well when I get angry instead of going on a murderous rampage against the people that I hate that would make the papers and further reinforce the negative stereotypes of the mentally ill. I kill zombies instead. This also acts as a distraction. It is harder for your mind to beat you up if you are also focused on keeping zombies out of your base and keeping your team mates standing. It is also a social activity that smashes apart loneliness should I be feeling lonely but not really up for visitors at the same time. Fuel is not just good things but solutions to bad states of feelings and coping mechanisms that are not damaging or self defeating.

    Thus fuel. The question is what is your fuel? What has been your fuel in the past? What is in your life that nurtures you? Gives you the briefest spark of joy however brief? Now before I stray into trite territory of a hug a rainbow.

    I entirely understand when you feel bad all the above feels futile and shit. That is not the point though of why I am asking you to look at what is your fuel. The point is that I am betting there is fuel and it has existed before. The cruellest thing about depression is it destroys your ability to even remember the fuel in your life. Instead it makes misery seem eternal and bleak with no hope. I know what it is like to lay in bed and contemplate if it is better to let my bladder explode than move to the toilet because I am so depressed laying in my own piss seems an acceptable trade off to moving. I don't think you are at that point yet so you have a window to fight the thoughts.

    So here is a practical task. Write down what has been and is fuel on paper.

    Now I am very interested at the moment of reading the above practical task what your thoughts just did?

    Did Apathy just win? 'Why bother?' 'Ugh' 'Shut up Adam what do you know.' 'Why paper? This is stupid.' 'I will do it later.' (Code for I will do it never or conveniently forget thus everything stays the same.)

    So see the above task as an experiment and let it run its course. Analyse the result. Regardless you just did something instead of doing the same thing. It may have resulted in nothing or it may have helped a bit to remind you not everything is and has been an eternity of hell.

    Okay regardless whether you want to do the above task or not. One thing I know that is fact. That if you do nothing. Nothing happens. Nothing useful or helpful or rewarding just falls out the sky into your lap like a gift from the rather elusive gods because you wish it would. Sadly things of worth take effort and hard work and often fraught with barriers and ass holes that get in your way. Meaning you got to fight yourself to gain ground along with everything else. Reality does not owe you anything and society wont magically change to accommodate you because you feel it should. People, places and pressures change, life events outside of your control happen. But at the heart of it is that you are always stuck with you.

    If you have forgotten fuel or run out then being stuck in such a way just results in chronic mental pain. With nothing to challenge that pain then suicide starts to seem like a damn good idea.

    The other reason I suggested the above task is because it has helped me. I took it a bit of a stage further and wrote myself a letter at the time I was not unstable and addressed it to unwell me. As a sort of way to reach across the chasm of misery that is often between these two states of being and a reminder that it shifts and changes and can again. But that does not mean it will help you. I am not you and you are not me. I can only share what has helped me in the hopes it will help you. But if you don't try it how will you ever know? How will you find new fuel that you have never considered before? How can you add to that list if you don't experiment?

    I am not asking you to move a mountain or accusing you of not trying hard as I know you are and should be proud of yourself for that. But consider that waiting passively for those things out there that are meant to be helping means in the mean time you just suffer each agonising day with nothing to challenge that while you count the moments. So why not top up your fuel, or find more fuel while you wait and grow your list.

    Because you really only have limited choices. What choice do you feed?

    Do you feed apathy and do nothing but the same things? Then wonder why the pain you feel is the same? For some apathy is not a choice, it is a learned state or a fact of illness. Some mistake it as being a broken record. The adage, 'we are creatures of habit,' is very accurate both in the positive and the negative. If you feel so paralysed by life and your own self doubts and worth that all is impossible so why even try. You may be in a state of learned helplessness. Which requires professional intervention. Cognitive Analytical Therapy is what personally helped me to a degree.

    Do you feed self destruction? ( I sometimes do this when bitterly depressed in the hopes I break myself and can push myself over the edge of fear and survival instinct so I can just die and not do this shit any more. This is a mental health crisis if you are feeding this choice. No sage advice is really going to help much. You will defend your misery as if it is some warped friend. You will shoot down any and all advice and get angry when people challenge you on your distorted perceptions or come out with trite responses that belong on a hall mark card, 'It will get better.'

    Feeding this choice either leads to an intervention, internal death, which can be summed up as self neglect and intentionally damaging behaviours that all increase the pain you are in. Feeding self destruction will eventually lead to actual death as you push against the fear of dying and your world fills up with pain. Pain is a powerful motivator.) It is important you learn to spot when it is you begin feeding self destruction and have things in place to intervene when you no longer recognise there is any other choice. SF is often my buffer between apathy and moving into self destruction.

    Or do you feed pursuit of quality of life? Notice I have not used the word wellness. Some people can certainly get well and wellness is attainable if you work at it and exhaust the options out there and engage in positive experiments of your own.

    But for some there is no such thing as being well and no such thing as working at it. Those that berate you to work at things in that manner and insult your pain as if you are just not trying hard enough. Are often engaged in the Just World Fallacy or other flawed psychology that is more of a reflection of their narrow view of how the world should be. Which often is not congruent with reality. You cannot berate a person into wellness. I may write a guide on that subject at some point. As it is more than a pet peeve of mine and I sometimes see it happen here.

    I know as medical scientific fact that my body is going to put me through new and torturous experiences in the future. The bipolar also seems to be getting worse also year on year and treatment options are... well not good. I have accepted time is running out, but it is for us all. Some of us do not get the luxury of wellness. Only bad days and good days and survivable days, and I hurt so bad days. It may just be your misfortune that life has dealt you such a hand and you fall in this category. You don't get a second deal or a Mulligan. Sorry. You could rage at the unfairness of the hand you have been dealt. Burn with envy at others, or fold with out even playing and knowing what would have happened and any enjoyment could maybe been had. You may not win but you can still play even if it is at a disadvantage.

    As such it is better to use the energy you do have pursuing quality of life. Capitalising on the good days. Using what you got available regardless and maybe accepting things may not be as you want them to be. But also building coping mechanisms for when you know suffering is on the horizon. Your coping mechanisms have to out weight your pain or pain will kill you, either on the inside or biologically. Don't wait for those coping mechanisms, go looking for them. Ask others, try out and experiment. Look for wisdom to help you in this fight from all sorts of places. Not just the professionals.

    You have to remind yourself that feelings change. Fight the lies of your mind, the self abusive inner chatter. By challenging them with counter evidence. Before you reach the point you can't differentiate. As this buys you time in the hope the cycle shifts. Let me demonstrate.

    I'm obviously so worthless -

    Wildcherry and I have put down some good evidence as to why you are not worthless. But I will take that further. If you were worthless, you would have been sacked by now. You would likely not be a moderator either. I also note you seem to have 70 odd friends listed. How many friends do you have beyond the screen? How many people love you? How many people have you positively affected?

    - and not worth anybody's help.

    If that is the case why am I attempting to help you. By spending time writing a lengthy response. Hopefully with helpful information in it. Designed to help. So you are at least worth one persons help. It also seems you had a good private doctor at one point that has left the door open for you.

    Maybe there is mind control.

    If there were Mind Control then government and big business would have access to it and be using it. As people are still demonstrating and complaining at how shit things are that seems unlikely. You and I are also not working 22 hour shifts, sleeping in a card board box and eating gruel. While being happy about it.
  8. Event_Horizon

    Event_Horizon SF Supporter

    Heh, broke the word limit.

    Basically Butterfly you have to put your thoughts on trial. ( That gives me an idea for another topic. 'Putting your negative thoughts on Trial.') See you just sparked an idea, so again not worthless. Anyway, so find fuel and pursue coping mechanisms in priority order of what you are most vulnerable too. Right now I think it may be disappointment. Hate to break it to you disappointment is a staple part of life’s diet and part of living life. You really only have two choices here which is what kind of pain would you prefer?

    To be paralysed by disappointment and the fear of disappointment and rejection. To the point it undermines any prior progress you may have made. Should you go down that path of avoiding disappointment and rejection you will not avoid pain but actually suffer more of it in a much worse way.

    Life is made up of risk and reward. If you choose to take no risks you will gain no rewards. If you try and shut down opportunities for disappointment and pain. You are shutting down from life itself. All you gain from that is a different kind of pain. It is the sort of pain that aches constantly and washes at your sanity as your world steadily grows stagnant. Since you never experience reward there is never that spark of joy or feeling of progress and you still will not be able to avoid all disappointments even if you become a hermit and hunt with a sharpened stick. Your stick just broke.

    So which pain do you want, chronic pain that aches day after day? Because that is what living in fear looking at the external world to help and banking all hope on people beyond your capacity to control in the hopes you get from them what you feel you need. This constant pain although maybe duller it gives you no opportunity to breathe and you still get savagely mauled any way.

    Alternatively you can choose, sharp stabbing pain that is intense and brutal agony at the time but then it goes and you can breathe and recover. This is a natural pain of life kicking you in some capacity. But every one takes that beating at some point. I am hoping some positive steps are proposed for you on Thursday. But it may be a case you have to fight further to get what you want and it is hard to fight if you are running on empty and each disappointment results in some one siphoning your petrol tank and piercing your tire. Have a spare handy, you will have to discover for yourself what that spare equates to in reality. Adapt, that is hard but staying rigidly fixed just results in snapping. Aim to strengthen your mind outside of the need for any one else. But also try and recognise you do need some one else before it is too late. Self reflect and watch your own thoughts.

    Medication is like playing roulette but odds on favourite are side effects and further titration and more waiting and hoping to see if you land on Stability. I have pretty much given up on that and have just settled for taking the edge off and softening the intensity of swing in mood.

    Help out there can give you access to more tools. But you are still the one who has to work those tools.

    Here are a couple of tools I have used in the past and sometimes dip into every now and again.


    The reason I like this one is it has a good imaginative approach that can be very helpful to the more creatively minded. It also avoids the almost patronising tone of some self help books.

    Then there is.


    This book is very potent but also quite dryly written. Seems very doctor, patient in its execution. But still useful stuff in there.

    I hope the above post proves helpful in some way. You know where my inbox is if you ever want to talk, or just rant. Hell we can rant together.

    Take care.
  9. Butterfly

    Butterfly Sim Addict Staff Alumni SF Author SF Supporter

    Thanks for the reply Adam. I've only just come home and I'm at work tomorrow, but either tomorrow or the day after I shall respond to the questions you have asked and points you have raised :hug:
  10. Butterfly

    Butterfly Sim Addict Staff Alumni SF Author SF Supporter

    I’m sorry this reply is late, I’ve just had a really busy week and have not had time to reply and I will address your questions and points one by one, I hope it all makes sense.

    As much as I hate my psychiatrist, I don’t think changing is an option. I would like to change psychiatrists, and I am willing to travel to do so, but it is not feasible because they only allocate your psychiatrist by the area you live in round here, at least that’s how it works anyway around here. And unfortunately for me, she is the only psychiatrist that is available for me to see. I’ve also looked into paying privately for a psychiatrist, I can afford the odd session every now and again, but I wouldn’t be able to afford the probably follow up that I would need. I am looking at £250 a pop, and I cannot afford to keep that up at the moment.

    What do I think help should look like? Hmm, that’s a good question. I guess in the ideal world it would be to have all of this go away so I don’t have to suffer anymore, but I realise that this is not realistic. I just want a better support network. I am prone to 1-2 weeks every few months where I am extremely impulsive or feeling very suicidal and my psych appointments are not too regular. I did have a CPN at one point who would see me weekly of fortnightly, and if I was feeling crappy, even if I didn’t particularly like him it did divert me away from a crisis, but he discharged me when I was referred to a psychiatrist, so in one way I gained what I needed, but lost what I needed at the same time. I don’t know if suggesting having a CPN again is viable, I could try, but I already expect it to be met with rejection. Maybe now that this therapy thing hasn’t worked out, maybe it will be an option. I am not completely convinced I need therapy, because I think I will always be prone to shifts in mood regardless, so maybe it is worth a shot in asking.

    As for coping strategies, I have plenty, and if I didn’t I probably would have been dead a long time ago. I mainly throw myself into playing video games such as The Sims, games on my ps3, RPG games, racing games, Nintendo DS games etc. Sometimes I walk the dog, sometimes I write poetry. Sometimes I play bejewelled. But as hard as I try and it gives me to focus on something and throw my energy into, it’s not always, enough, if you know what I mean.

    My “fuel” in the past has been to achieve certain goals, mainly career orientated. Firstly, it was to get into university, then it was to complete university, then it was to get a job, and now it is to continue learning whilst working. Other goals included saving up money, having my fiancé move in etc.

    Now my goals are to get a place of my own, get married and continue learning through work. In November alone I am going on my best practice in dementia facilitator study days and my venepuncture and cannulation study day and I am mentoring an HCA at the moment. I will soon be enrolled onto the student nurse mentoring course. I guess these things keep me going, because it feels like I am achieving something. But I have periods where, although it means a lot to me to complete these goals, I just, have that moment of impulsion and end up doing something stupid.

    I guess writing myself a letter would work, but it would have to be when I am feeling a bit better. At the moment, I just wouldn’t have anything positive to say to myself. Sure there are positive things I “could” say, such as what I have stated above, but right now, I can’t even be bothered. But, maybe when I feel a bit better I can give it a try.

    The thing is, I don’t feel worthless, or helpless all of the time. A lot of the time, even when feeling depressed I know I have things to be proud of. I don’t really suffer with low self esteem either. I’m not horrendously overweight, I’m not ugly and sometimes I can look in the mirror and say “Damn, I look hot today!” I know I am fairly intelligent, and I have a lot of good traits. Considering what I have been through in my life, I have achieved an awful lot and whilst not everything worked out how I initially thought it would, they have turned out okay. But sometimes when my mental health deteriorates into that agitated, psychotic, impulsive, suicidal state, it doesn’t matter about what I’ve achieved and what I have got to be proud of, I live in the now. Because I feel awful at that time, there can often be no reasoning; I simply can’t see anything else. I don’t think it is a general state of mind thing; it’s a mental health crisis that nobody seems to be taking much notice of. Okay, it often lasts for 1-2 weeks tops, and I know that it does eventually come to an end (when I am in a rational state of mind) but there is the point, in those times I am not in a rational state of mind and it’s not because of having low self worth, self doubt or don’t believe in myself, it’s because I have some kind of disorder that brings it on and I am not on the correct treatment.

    I have come to accept that I probably will never achieve mental wellness. I believe I could achieve stability, but I think I will always have to live with this, just like I will always have to live with having HIV. It can be controlled, but it can’t be cured. But at the moment, the mental illness is not under control and my moods fluctuate severely and without warning, and until somebody takes me seriously, one day I will end up doing something stupid, whether it’s harming myself, getting myself into danger or killing myself. I don’t always want to give in to the self destruction, and I do everything I possibly can even with a deteriorating state of mind to avert it, but it doesn’t always work and I can’t always help it. Once I hit a certain point, that’s it. I either have to ride it out or I end up doing something stupid.

    I just get so disappointed and deflated, time and time again when I really try hard to get help for myself, advocate for myself and do what I can to avert a crisis but get shot down in flames. I never seem to meet anybody’s criteria, and the longer I am not in anybody’s criteria, the more danger I am in of killing myself. I really don’t want that to be an option, but one day, it will happen. It makes me feel so worthless, like I am not worth their help. That maybe this is just something I have created all in my head and I have to figure it all out by myself to get it to stop. It triggers me so much when I get told that nobody can help me, for whatever reason, even if I know it’s not their fault. This is the only trigger I have identified that sends me spiralling into suicidal and self destructive behaviour, and it’s not one I can really control because it is a decision that is not in my hands.

    I have still not heard from the therapist, which I am not surprised about. I doubt I will hear anything for a while, even though she said she would contact me after her discussions on Thursday. So I did expect to hear something Thursday afternoon or Friday. Maybe I am impatient and should wait a while, but I don’t have much hope to be honest. It’s not triggering me that I haven’t heard anything yet, I am just not surprised and know it will be months before I hear anything else, usually through a letter in the post saying I’ve been referred to somebody else for an assessment.
  11. flowers

    flowers Senior Member

    hi Butterfly. I know nothing about how to get help in the UK. I just know its not easy. The system gets to call the shots. But I read here that MIND does have advocates who can work on your behalf to get someone the correct help they need, if it falls into a catagory they help with. I will give you the link to call them. But I suspect you know much more about them than I. http://www.mind.org.uk/contact Maybe they could get permission for you to see a diferent psychiatist in a different area even though it is not allowed. I hope so.
  12. Yoyogirl86

    Yoyogirl86 Well-Known Member

    Sorry to hear you going through a lot right if you ever wanna talk to me via email i am available just pm me and work something out between us.
  13. Butterfly

    Butterfly Sim Addict Staff Alumni SF Author SF Supporter

    I don't think I am at a point right now where I need someone to advocate for me, cause although it has taken a while, I am beginning to advocate for myself. I am pondering my next option, because I am running out of them quite quickly treatment wise. I think I am going to bide my time. I would like to give the therapist at least another week before she gets back to me, and I have my psychiatrist appointment on Thursday, so my next move is to see what pans out from that. If it goes badly, I'm going to make an appointment with my GP for crisis plan management and to discuss my complete disdain for the service I am receiving, then I think I will complain to PALs about my experiences. Maybe then, I will be able to get a different psychiatrist, but we will have to see. These plans are just ideas at the moment, they may not be needed, or I will feel so deflated again that I will have completely lost any hope or motivation to get better.
  14. Event_Horizon

    Event_Horizon SF Supporter

    You never need to apologise to me for being you Butterfly. I am really glad you read through my lengthy post and actually responded with some depth. It all makes perfect sense what you have said.

    Some people also fall into that issue of not being able to change their Psychiatrists as there are just so few to go round. But if the whole thing has honestly broken down. It is a waste if their time and yours to continue in a therapeutic relationship that is no longer therapeutic. The word hate is a strong indicator of maybe already being at that point. At least you recognise your options.

    Getting a CPN is like gold dust, they seem to be discharging people all over the place. The only reason I think I have mine, is when I lose it I become a danger to certain others that I resent still get to breathe. :mad: That and I know my rights and the laws that support those rights. As well as have the contacts that turn that knowledge into court proceedings if necessary. I think this makes some a little nervous of me. So they don't tell me to just have a nice cup of tea... lol

    So what was useful about your CPN what did you get out of him? How did he support you in those impulsive moments? Think on that as a clue may be there as to what you could maybe replace his loss with.

    I often find that many peoples view of therapy is very distorted, like it is some miracle cure all. It seems utterly ludicrous to me, that say ten years of significant illness and maladaptive coping mechanism or past abuse can be undone in twelve sessions. I am often picking people up from that disappointment, that they waited so long and in the end it all felt so empty. But it is not all negative, some have really thrived and can recognise their own distortions of thought and move out of paralysis. Some though are in the same trap you and I are likely in.

    Therapy is all well and good while you can think to apply the techniques, but when your thoughts get away from you, it is useless. I liken it to telling a person suffering with brain damage, 'Can you stop being brain damaged a moment so I can better teach you how to cope with being brain damaged.' You just have to be proactive and fight off getting too lost or recognise you are getting lost. Which seems to be something you do well and keep aware of naturally. I would not be so quick to just say you may never be well. Science is making significant inroads into Bipolar and Schizophrenia. Sadly it is all low level, genes and mice based experiments. Very fascinating stuff though.

    Where I operate we have a certain amazing project that I often refer people onto if there is an opening. I can't mention it direct without likely revealing my location and compromising myself. But it basically offers a different sort of approach. Called the Recovery Star Model. Which is a much more complete way to tackle mental health issues. Instead of making it all about medication and daily survival it seeks to build up the aspects of our lives we may be lacking in, the goal is to get to self reliance and self empowerment. It also makes use of a sleep hygienist and a nutritionist. The statistics on it keeping people from relapsing into a hospital admission after discharge are pretty decent. I have also experienced it myself and found value in it.

    Here it is to download for free if you or any one reading this wants to look at what it consists of. I have no idea how many services though actively offer this form of group therapy. I am somewhat limited to my area and knowledge networks.


    There may possibly be nothing in there you have not done before, but sadly my mind reading powers have been shut off by the Olanzapine so I can't know that.

    It is good you have goals in place, you seem pretty grounded yet prone to moments of being entirely out of control. This does sound like a medication issue but I can't comment what may or may not be useful. Maybe asking for a review of your medication regime may be in order. Maybe setting up some as needed medication to be available just prior to the start of loss of control. I am curious if you can feel it coming? I know I can feel mine and get a feel for which way I am about to shift. But I cycle slowly. Sometimes Butterfly the only option is to ride it out. I imagine much of biological medicine also has aspects of that. It is easy to resent having to be forced to ride something out, but sometimes there is no choice.

    What kind of support networks do you have in place? How have you dealt with that fluctuating suicidal, impulsive mood before?

    It is not something you have created in your head, you know that as you just said as much above. No one would choose this. I have had that exact argument before with various people. The only people that would choose this are misguided people that want to emulate celebrities. Or view mental illness as some desirable quirky trait of specialness or for some reason think they deserve to be tortured mentally on a consistent basis?

    Seems to me you need to play more Stability roulette. The trigger of being told no one can help is an understandable one. But I doubt it is meant that way. It does not make you worthless. How do you tackle that immediate mental response? Because I think that stands out as the most damaging response to disappointment, then it cascades into the downward spiral. You should get that gremlin book and make an 'I am worthless Gremlin' then tame it. ;)

    Why not chase that therapist up? Why wait passively? Go be a nuisance and get your answers now instead of later. Crisis planning seems wise even if you were stable. You have goals, you have supports you can put in place. You could tame a gremlin. You could chase up your therapist, you could look into a group of some sort. Maybe more centred on coping with mood fluctuations or some service that may offer the recovery star model. Regardless Butterfly you are not alone and clearly people care. There are still options, some may just be hidden.
  15. flowers

    flowers Senior Member

    it sounds like you have a very good plan. Speak with the psychiatrist. And then if need be speak with the GP. i bet that because you are resourceful you will get the help you need. I will put good thoughts around it. Send some good energy around the whole thing.
  16. Butterfly

    Butterfly Sim Addict Staff Alumni SF Author SF Supporter

    Thank you for your reply again Adam.

    I know getting a CPN is like catching gold dust, but at the moment, it is clear I need something more than what I am getting, but not able to achieve this through therapy soo I don't feel like this is an unreasonable suggestion. I do struggle between psych appointments to hold it together because in those 3 months between appointments I either go impulsive and suicidal, or psychotic and delusional. Even if I saw the CPN once every 6 weeks in between psych appointments, they would probably catch me cycling and may be able to prevent a crisis. I also hope it would aide and accurate diagnosis and medication because CPN's tend to view you differently to what a psych does. A psych tends to just look at the symptoms, but CPN's look at the whole person. The CPN I had before was hit and miss, I won't go into why, but he was actually pretty good at getting me what I needed. He got me medication changes and he did get me a psych referral but unfortunately he was part of the pathfinder service, so technically when I got the psych referral, that was the end of my path and he had to discharge me. He was also very good at giving me distraction techniques. I also felt like even when I was struggling, I was able to hold on for the appointment and I was able to get by week by week. He was also good at getting me to talk, something which I am not always good at. As for getting by without one, my only backup is my GP and even though she is brilliant, I always feel like I am burdening her. I know she will advocate for me when needed, but to see her I have to make the move and make the apt, and if I am already in a crisis, I won't go. Pre crisis, I will go but during a crisis, I won't. I don't know why. Whereas with a CPN, yes I could cancel the apt if I was in a crisis, but that takes effort and I would have to see them. I don't know if that makes sense??

    I wouldn't mind having therapy, but I know it's not going to "cure me". Maybe help me, but not cure me. I guess just like many other people who suffer mental illness, I have thought processes that need a bit of work, but I don't think it is going to solve everything. Like you say, therapy is all well and good while you are still in the right mind to apply learned techniques, but when you become irrational it's very hard for it to make any difference whatsoever.

    I do tend to feel when a crisis is coming. I managed to avert one last time, when all I felt was nothing but rage, with awful racing thoughts, agitation and psychosis. I managed to go and see the GP, and she gave me some PRN diazepam. I still have some left should I feel another crisis coming on. But I don't always have it in me to see the GP, it depends how far gone I am. Last time I managed to catch it in time, but I'm not always so lucky. Sometimes I literally wake up and I have a complete change in mood and there's nothing I can do about it. It also depends on how delusional I am. I often get the "They are trying to kill me" delusion which makes things doubly difficult when you know you need help, but can't because of some irrational delusion. The ways I tend to manage suicidal impulses is usually via unhealthy means, usually SH in its various forms (cutting, swallowing, overdosing etc). It sounds messed up, but sometimes it's the only way I can stop myself from going out and just committing suicide impulsively. I tend to just, ride it out.

    I could chase up the therapist, but I am not going to have time now until Thursday as working 12 and a half hour shifts. She may have contacted my psych, so I will go to my psych appointment and see what the options are. If I have not heard anything by this time next week then I will chase up the therapist, it may be that she is still in discussions with what to do with me, who knows. I'm not good with groups, my social anxiety goes through the roof and is always something I have avoided, besides, living in the middle of nowhere has its disadvantages lol (okay, not in the middle of nowhere, but I live 20 miles or so away from major towns/cities where they have support groups).

    As always, thank you for your helpful and insightful input :hug:

    Flowers, thank you for the positive energy. I really hope I am able to get some more help :hug: