Heavy metal a cause for depression?

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by poison, Dec 26, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. poison

    poison Well-Known Member

    http://www.iforum.umontreal.ca/ForumExpress/Archives/vol3no1en/article01_ang.html

    This is such bull! Apparently, Dave Miranda also forgot that teens who listen to heavy metal music usually tend to more intelligent for their age. Maybe this is a case of "knowledge causing misery" rather than music. As the great Suicidal Tendencies say...

    "I'd rather feel like shit than be full of shit."

    Plus, their is MUCH more depressing music out there besides metal. Why not pick on Micheal Bolton or Elton John? Who knows, maybe THEY are a cause for homosexuality in todays youth! It's as if listening to heavy metal makes it easier for someone to say you have a psycholgical problem. FUCK the ignorant people that think this. And while we're at it, maybe R&B leads to STD's or maybe rap leads to car theft! Who knows! THE POSSIBILITES ARE ENDLESS IF YOU USE THE LOGIC OF THIS TW*T!

    Sorry for how angry that was. I really needed to vent... i didn't mean to offend anyone:eek:hmy:
     
  2. Syd

    Syd Guest

    Well, his 'research' only involved participants filling in a questionnaire. It's funny that the assumption was made "adolescents who listen to heavy metal are more prone to depression" because I was thinking it would be more like "those with depression are more prone to listen to heavy metal". There's a huge difference between observing a correlation between two personality traits and claiming that one trait is directly responsible for the other. I doubt anyone with a healthy mind is going to take this article too seriously.
     
  3. Abacus21

    Abacus21 Staff Alumni

    :agreed:

    As a great person said, 'Statistics can show anything, if you look hard enough' - definitely the case here.
     
  4. theleastofthese

    theleastofthese SF Friend Staff Alumni

    I would be more likely to put faith into these types of statistics if it had been a longitudinal study - that is, following a group of people over a long period of time, rather than a voluntary questionaire type study. Statistics can be manipulated any way you want, so I don't put much faith in them.:dry: Besides, proving a direct correlation between one thing/event and another is difficult, to say the least. In most circumstances there are many reasons, many explanations, and it's hard to pinpoint only one thing as the cause of something else. Take it with a grain of salt... or several grains...:dry:

    least
     
  5. I don't believe Heavy Metal causes depression but I'm pretty sure Country music does because every time I hear it I want to kill myself.
     
  6. I'd say heavy metal is an excellant outlet for stress, the noise, the sometimes offensive lyrics (the downright hotness of Marilyn Manson :tongue: )

    And Prozac brings an excellant reason: country kills.
     
  7. Jawa

    Jawa Guest

    I don't think the article was saying metal is a cause for depression...

    ...they are saying people more prone to depression tend to listen to heavy metal music. The music that we listen to does have a certain effect on our emotions and beliefs. It's just like the case studies and statistics carried out to see if violence in the media makes children more prone to aggression, or whether aggressive people seek out violent media. Shifting from the topic of aggression to depression for a minute, if we apply this perspective to the article, we can see they are suggesting that people who are already more prone to depression, are more prone to listen to this type of music.

    Personally I think a lab experiment is in order, measuring the sadness scale of about 500 participants or so in Western culture, getting them to listen to metal music, then measure their happiness/sadness scale immediately afterwards. There was one experiment conducted two years ago I believe, it was shown on the telly. I cannot remember the name of the show (its the one where the man studies these children growing up till their adult lives, if anyone can remember the name of that show, I'll give them a cookie) but they took two identical twins who lived in the same environment and had the same types of personalities. They then seperated the two, one listened to depressing music, and watched a sad film. The other twin listened to upbeat music, and watched a cheery film. As you can guess the twin who watched the depressing film/listened to the depressing music felt sad, whilst the other twin felt happy. Although this was done using a few participants, the lack of ecological validity involved, and it wasn't repeated. The short experiment supplies some insight into the topic, and could thus be a model for further research.
     
  8. Bob26003

    Bob26003 Well-Known Member

    What Syd said. I would tend to think that depressed folks may gravitate more towards music that is labeled as offensive, whether it be gangster rap or metal or whatever. But that is just from my own experience.

    Not to get too far off topic here: But, there is something that greatly troubles me. The suicide and mental problems culture. As if being suicidal and having mental problems is something cool. WTF is that shit. That is the dumbest fad I have ever seen in my life.

    I realize that it is something for the kids to relate too, but damn! Since when did depression become cool? What I mean is it seems strange to me when kids who are not really depressed or suicidal, act like they are, to be cool or something. You know what I mean. Suicide and depression is not something to be looked up to.

    Well, at least ppl are expressing themselves and being truthful and that is always a good thing.

    The problem of depression needs to be looked at and approached in a seriousl manner. I mean, why are all these people miserable?
     
  9. Jawa

    Jawa Guest

    I presume you're talking about Generation Y, from what studies have shown, the increase in drug/alcohol abuse, and increased global awareness is a few of the major factors affecting the happiness of people.

    I recomend looking it up on Wikipedia, the article is quite interesting.
     
  10. Syd

    Syd Guest

    Which studies were those? The heavy drug usage was prevalent in most societies during the 60s and 70s, and there has been a downward trend in drug culture in recent years, so feel free to scratch that off the list of 'generation y' scapegoats. Increased global awareness? Since when has advancement in knowledge and universal consciousness led to depression? (I'll wait for someone to reply with 'ignorance is bliss' ;p)

    Seriously though, here's what I have to say on the subject. Drug abuse leads to depression, a behavior not to be confused with responsible drug usage. Responsible drug use is becoming more common in recent years, due to the popularity of harm-reduction education, psychology, and non-profit organizations aimed at health care for our youth. If by heightened global awareness you mean the internet, media, television, corruption in politics, well... I can agree with that to some degree. Corporate marketing and exploitation of technology (such as mass advertising for movies, video game industry, and other products) can be very detrimental on our youth, but only if the parents aren't doing their jobs.

    Sources of depression, psychological problems? I would put most of the responsibility on parents, social environments of our culture, and education.

    People who are completely unprepared for parenthood (much less adulthood) are having sex all the time, many who are against abortion or even against contraceptives (yay religion!) feel obligated to shoulder their newly-earned parental responsibilities, completely oblivious to the fact that they're contributing to the further destruction of our society. The parents either completely fail at raising children properly, have no time to raise them (due to work, financial problems, divorce, etc) or the children are left in the pseudo-care of foster parents and community centers, pretty much forced to raise themselves. It's been clearly outlined in over a century of research by Psychologists: Childhood is the most vital period of mental growth for humans.

    So it goes without saying, education is equally as important as proper parenting and family life, since children are spending 6 hrs. of 5 days every week amongst their student peers, teachers, observational learning involving both curriculum and personal relationships between friends and significant others. When the social environments of U.S. public schools have been compared with prisons, high dropout rates, poor discipline, lowering educational standards... and when the U.S. divorce rate in families has been on an upward trend, and when crime continues to rise in urban areas across our nation (and other countries as well) ... when the media dramatizes every public scandal in order to "sell-out" while stories on science, art, and optimism take a back seat, when political campaigns spend billions on overseas affairs while ignoring problems at home, when our society pays actors, athletes, and mainstream musicians millions while doctors, teachers, artists, and scientists struggle to fund life-saving organizations and programs, and even struggle to survive on their own in many cases...

    Now, you can begin to see how social imbalances are directly related to chemical imbalances.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2007
  11. Panther

    Panther Well-Known Member

    I was kinda thinking along the lines of what Jawa said - ie people who are depressed are more likely to listen to heavy metal. And this is only my opinion, but I reckon some heavy metal COULD potentially cause some form of mental problems if the person is a bit unstable.
     
  12. Jackson

    Jackson Guest

    if it can happen it will, anything can cause anything
     
  13. Jawa

    Jawa Guest

    Scenes from the Culture Clash" Fast Company January/February 2006, pg 73-77.

    brandchannel: Dr. Pete Markiewicz: Who's filling Gen Y's shoe's?

    William Strauss and Neil Howe Generations: The History of America's Future, 1584 to 2069:perennial; Reprint edition (September 1, 1992)

    The Effectiveness of D.A.R.E., Richard Clayton, University of Kentucky

    Drug Survey of Students Finds Picture Very Mixed" by KATE ZERNIKE, New York Times, 12/20/05}}

    The Scapegoat Generation: America's War on Adolescents, Michael Males, 1996

    Reynol Junco and Jeanna Mastrodicasa Connecting to the Net.Generation: What higher education professionals need to know about today's college students, NASPA; First edition

    Just because two lines on a graph show the same slope does not show which one causes the other, it merely shows that both occur at the same time. A person could argue that depression leads to drug abuse. Take heroin tablets for example, having taken it myself due to medical reasons, I know that it's general effect is to block out emotions. Now let me ask you, what kind of person wants to take something so that it'll block out all their emotions? To think that a person would prefer that over feeling emotions at all - thats a pretty unhappy person.

    I'm unsure of what point is trying to be made here, it comes across as a rant. If you are trying to argue a point, could you please outline it more clearly?

    Please expand on this point.

    Attachment theory has nothing to do with depression, it is related to the subject of sociopaths and delinquents. Who's theories are you basing these ideas off anyway?

    Quit with the rants, they make little next to no sense. I'll read valid points, but not rambles. My eyes are actually hurting from having to sift through a bunch of rants squashed next to each other. Just state a point, back it up, summarize it, then in a new paragraph outline your next point.
     
  14. Axiom

    Axiom Account Closed

    Yes heavy metal causes me to be depressed!

    *turns on sanitarium*

    Oh goooood no :laugh: it's all a state of your own mind. heavy metals just a means of expression. Classical could make someone depressed. Any music that speaks deeper than a surface level can cause depression, can cause understanding, can enlighten, can be a release, can cause happyness, can cause mostly anything. Heavy metals.. heavy. It's not a happy lyric musical feeling piece of music usually, it goes deeper than surface value, and as such in my opinon, is easly target with people who like to hone in on things that have the 'potential' to cause distress.

    Id say if you're becomeing depressed by heavy metal, A- go listen to something else, and B - figure out what your deal is, cause it's not the music, it's something about you that's fuddelin up. Don't blame something that has done nowt to you.

    Excuse me whilst i turn on some slayer..

    Does this music make me murder people :eek:hmy: I see a new article in the making!
     
  15. birdy

    birdy Well-Known Member

    to me metal music is a small form of private therapy. just because u have everything (the pain, etc.) surrounding urself, u feel understood somehow. u dont feel alone. its a form of dealing with it all.
    listening to metal music makes me happy.
    i listen to metal music cause i'm depressed. i'm not depressed cause i listen to that music. i decide what music i listen to and who i am (yeah i know, only partially, cause my hormones also play a role...). it still is the human who makes the music, not the music who makes the humans.
     
  16. LetItGo

    LetItGo Staff Alumni

    I always find the heavier the music, the more excited, and mmm jumpy I feel. Morrissey is likely to make me more depressed than Megadeth.
     
  17. Absentimental

    Absentimental Active Member

    Wow, okay.

    Well, for one, I find heavy metal soothing, as crazy as that may seem, it makes me feel better and happier. :huh: It definitely doesn't trigger depression in me. But hey, that's just me.
     
  18. ybt

    ybt Guest

    i think the reason many people think heavy metal is depressive for people (and especially teenagers :mad: ) is because of how the listeners look. they do tend to visually look quite dark. but this argument is flawed... yes, there are peaceful people who listen to classical music, or old people, or whatever the stereotype is, but there are also metal heads who listen to classical...
     
  19. Darken

    Darken Well-Known Member

    metal is soothing to me and it relives stress. There was this show on tv I seen that said there was a decent size portion of above average teens that listen to rock and metal.
     
  20. Syd

    Syd Guest

    Thank you for the sources, Jawa. There was a bit of miscommunication in this thread, as I thought you were implying that the prevalence of drugs in our society is the root of the problem. I see now that you're referring to the abuse of drugs (behavioral problems) as the source of many cases of depression, which I agree with of course.

    This was actually a point I made through an earlier post in the thread, about the original topic of discussion - heavy metal and depression. The correlation between depression and the affinity for this genre of music didn't reveal enough information for us to cite one as the direct cause for the other and vice-versa. (Something it seems most in this thread agree with as well) I understand what you're saying, the reason I got into drugs originally was due to the fact that I was heavily depressed, and it got to the point where nothing mattered anymore. The risk of experimenting with substances was no longer something I feared.

    Although I initially abused some substances - after some months I learned of harm-reduction education, and toned down my usage considerably. I became interested in researching substances, trip reports, precautions, safety, and generally adopted a more scientific perspective on chemicals rather than simply pursuing recreational benefits. My depression decreased and I gained more self-control. I agree that depression can lead to abuse with many people, our emotions can easily cloud our rationality. I also agree that drug abuse can lead to depression (or exacerbate depression further) depending on individual cases, which are all different.


    I'm saying that more professionals (and communities as a whole) are taking a progressive stance on drug issues in society today, as harm-reduction education has been helping a lot of people educate themselves about abuse, and has saved lives. Alcohol abuse in particular has caused the most harm.

    I'd mentioned other outlets for abusive behavior, some include entertainment (television, internet & video game addiction) gambling, cutting, domestic abuse, etc. I'm pointing out that the same kind of mentality is found elsewhere, it's this kind of thinking that is dangerous, though many people choose to solely blame drugs.

    Also, the popularity of television is often exploited by those with the most money. The advertising of products, culture, and ideologies (which can have heavy influence over those who are addicted to mainstream media) can't happen without proper funding, and the intentions behind the advertising aren't always positive. Many scientists working to improve society have relatively little influence over what is aired to the masses. I didn't mean to get too off-topic, but this is very related to depression as well - since a generation growing up on television will develop personalities in response to what they've seen from a young age. (For example, women developing depression and eating disorders from overexposure to our culture's high emphasis on beauty and weight expectations for females.)

    I'm also saying that a lack of parenting contributes to this issue, since responsible parents would spend more time with their children, rather than leaving them alone with television, or with ambiguous peers for example - where observational learning can result in many behavioral changes, for the better or worse depending on the group.

    I wasn't particularly referring to attachment theory, though I can see how it's related. I'm saying that a lack of parents or proper parenting during one's childhood can be a major source of depression. I don't really think anyone would disagree with that, as it's common knowledge, so I'll assume there was just a misunderstanding. Anyway, since you mentioned attachment theory, I'll refer to John Bowlby himself (the first to publish papers on the theory) and a book of his, Loss: Sadness and Depression (Attachment and Loss), which talks about the importance of parental roles and a healthy social environment in a child's life.

    As for my recurring suggestions (also seen in other threads) that public education should be improved to accommodate more to the individual, and to help children suffering from neglect.. most of these ideas were inspired by my own experiences, or from discussions I've had with others on the topic. Many of my childhood friends who lacked strong families turned to crime. Much of the aggressive behavior I saw developing could be traced to abuse from parents or other peers in the neighborhood, school, and any other situation where observational learning takes place. I really don't want to go into further details about my theories or proposals for social improvement here in this thread, as I fear it's been taken far off-topic already.

    I hope I was able to clear up my old post a bit, apologies if anything is still unclear. Should anyone wish to discuss the issues more, I ask that you direct your questions and responses to PM, so that we can let this thread stay on topic.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.