How do I human?

[Chipetele]

I've never had a job before (I'm 30...) and I haven't had friends or any kind of social life since my early/mid teens... 13-15 were traumatic and really messed me up. I won't get into it so long story short, I've been isolated for half my life now (well, I went to school for many years but didn't talk to anyone there and just stayed home and did nothing on my free time), I've got terrible social anxiety and I don't know how to talk to people.
Well, it's a little more complicated than that. Sometimes I know what I should say, but my social anxiety keeps me from saying it because of extreme self consciousness. That means I'll start to reply to someone and then cut myself off mid sentence, often saying "never mind" or similar. Or I won't say/ask about things I know I should.
For example, I was part of a group therapy program recently and another member told me he used to work at the hospital. I knew I should ask what his job was at the hospital, what it was like, and that I should act interested. But I had this overwhelming feeling that that would mean we'd have to get into a whole conversation and he'd have to explain and talk about it to someone he doesn't want to talk to and he'll be annoyed...Objectively, I know that's wrong (in this case at least), because he's the one who started the conversation and volunteered this information. But my feelings don't listen to logic. So I just replied "Oh." And then I felt terrible about that. I knew I was being rude and I knew I'd just left him hanging and I just wanted the whole situation to just go away. That's the kind of thing that happens a lot.
Other times I just don't know what to say at all. I don't know how to carry a conversation. I know it's a good idea to ask follow up questions when someone tells them something about themselves, but I can't just do that, that'll just seem like an interrogation. At some point I have to make a comment about it. And I've no idea what to say. So way too often I just end up saying "oh." and it's incredibly awkward and I feel like never seeing the person again.

So...I started work for the first time ever, first day at work and it goes well enough, I don't talk much but then neither does anyone else, we're just focused on doing our jobs and THAT I can do. But towards the end of the day, the two co-workers I'm in this room with are talking to each other and I'm hyperfocused on doing my job. And then one of them goes home for the day, and he says bye. And I don't say anything. And I only realized after he left that I should've said bye...I was just in this mode where I unconsciously thought of myself as not really there, as if their conversation (and him saying bye) didn't apply to me.. as if he would always be talking to her and she to him...It's hard to explain, but I just didn't see myself as part of the group. I was just a fly on the wall, an invisible observer, someone no one would think to talk to (even though they'd both talked to me several times, mostly work related).
So he left and I didn't say bye back, and now I feel like I fucked up big time and I've anxiety about that. And now I'm alone in the room with this girl that I'm of course super attracted to...And I had to say something to her about the files I'd gone through, and I suddenly found myself really nervous to talk to her. I'd been calm the entire day and could talk to her and the other guy without feeling anxious as long as it was work related, but now all of a sudden I was super anxious and felt like my voice was going to break and that I had to take a deep breath before I said something to her. And then I got ready to leave and she asked me some questions...if I was taking the bus, where I lived etc...and I just answered her questions, trying not to betray how uncomfortable I was. I didn't ask anything back. I just answered her questions like I was being interrogated.
Shortly before all of this my boss had come in and asked everyone if it was going well. One of them gave a long reply (maybe a bit too long,) the other gave a happy, shorter reply...and I just replied "yes!" and continued working. I couldn't think of ANYTHING else to say, no idea how to turn it into a conversation, even a short one...and I think I said it a bit too loud, too.

First day at work was going so well until it suddenly didn't.
And now I'm going there again tomorrow and I feel super anxious about having to talk to them again. I felt surprisingly calm and fine at the beginning of the first day but now I feel like I'm going to go in there and look and sound like a nervous mess

I need to go on some sort of course where I can learn basic social skills. And I need to be on some kind of drug for social anxiety but I'm not doing SSRIs again. I don't think there are many alternatives though.
/rant.
I don't know why I'm writing here other than to rant to someone, but if anyone has any advice to give me on how to handle this shit, I'll be happy to hear it

 

[MisterBGone]

Hey 👋 @Chipetele!
I think that what it sounds like to me - someone who does not have social anxiety - is that this is something that you could just take a little time to evolve: your skills; & that the best way in which to do this & develop that (in my opinion) is “practice!”
Given your limited experience in such matters, it’s only normal and natural for it to feel supremely uncomfortable from the start. Or for a moment. But guess what? It gets easier... & the more you do it, like anything else, the easier it gets!
If you were to take something like public speaking, for example, and let’s just say that I’d never done it. This could give me some great trepidation and feelings similar to what you’re describing and explaining to us all here. Now, if this were to somehow suddenly become a significant or regular part of my job, then I’m going to have to eventually get good at it. But guess what? It doesn’t happen overnight . In the beginning, baring that I am a natural it could even be downright dreadful.

but the best thing I could do is to keep working at it, and then one day, I won’t be so awkward, nervous - scared (“stage fright?”) - whatever. . .

now one thing I would like to point out, is that I see a little bit of over analysis 🧐 going on here in the two primary situations you’d described in terms of your daily interactions. In fact, I’d bet it’s a safe bet, that were we to ask them their impressions of the matters with which you speak, they’d be far less scathing / critical (of your social skills) & much more on the front of normal than you’d realize. If anything, worst they might say is you were shy? But I don’t even know about that because one thing is pretty well certain, they haven’t come close to giving it an ounce of the magnitude of thought 💭 in which you have.
And so what this dissecting of the situation does - is, it makes everything seem a million times worse (than it actually is...) & furthermore: could lead to a “self-fulfilling prophecy,” of sorts when you make it that much harder and thereby effect your performance 🎭!
For what it’s worth you communicate exceptionally well on here. You’re very articulate, and express your thoughts in a very concise & descriptive way. You make it sound interesting, or appealing to want to listen to you more because you’ve held our attention so...

so ! All you’ve got to do, and I know it’s not the same because we’re in the print medium here (however it is interactive and thus one or maybe even several steps closer to the real thing : which, when you really break it down and think about it... Is actually a whole lot easier in terms of less effort being required given the nature of face to face / in person communication, where you’ve got all the nonverbals, facial expressions pauses & everything else that come in to play!) : )

so in short (or long!) maybe try an d get as much “practice,” in talking with us on here in whatever area s seem easiest or best to, or for you (from the start). That might be a start? Good 😌 luck 🍀 !

 

[EmB]

Hey there! I don't have a huge amount to add to @MisterBGone and his amazing response, but what I will say is that you made a HUGE step by starting work. Like, you say you did an awful job, but you did more socialising in a day than you have in ages! That's massive, and kudos to you for that keep going, youve got this.

Sending hugs

 

[may71]

Sorry that you're having so much anxiety.

The link in my signature can connect you to some information about treatment methods. I found that dietary changes helped me with social anxiety, oddly enough.

Generally speaking, I think it's recommended that people not talk about their disabilities at work. On the other hand, I've found that when I have social anxiety, and I can tell people that I've got it, things go a lot more smoothly. I think it tends to put both me and them at greater ease.

So I guess it's a judgement call. If you decide to go with the tell-someone approach, maybe you could pick someone that you think would be most receptive (the girl you're attracted to?). Maybe communicate via email if that's easier. If she's receptive and supportive, she might have some advice about how to handle things with other coworkers and your boss.

I hope that things work out.

Wishing you good things.

 

[Human Ex Machinae]

@Chipetele it's important to remember that the workplace is about work. It isn't about charming the pants off of everyone who crosses our path. If you're doing your job and doing it well and satisfying your boss, that's really all that matters.
But ok, yes, there's a social element involved. Here's the thing to know about people that might help you. People love to talk, especially about themselves and it isn't difficult to get them started. Having a 'successful' social interaction with someone doesn't necessarily require a lot of work. One or two key questions, some strategic nodding of the head, and an occasional, 'Oh, really?' and after they're talked out, they'll walk away happy, thinking what a great listener you are

 

[Przym]

Trust me, you don't have to attempt to prompt others to disclose things about themselves. If someone wants to do so, they will. If they don't, they won't.

I can see that you're hypervigilant of every move you make, whereas most folks don't think twice about it. I understand that, too. I used to do that a little bit.

Try to just go with the flow. The less you worry about it, the more you will relax into a natural way of doing things and interacting with others. You don't have to try to meticulously curate your behaviors and reactions. In fact, if it is simply not in your nature to be talkative or expound on conversation, then just be that and don't think twice. Own it. Your co-workers will grow used to it and they will be fine with it.

At one of my old jobs, I literally used to never speak to anyone else unless they spoke to me first. They would always say hello to me when I came in, and I'd wave or something, or look their way and say hello back, and that would be that. They weren't offended, they didn't gossip (at least I think, haha), they didn't treat me negatively. They just accepted it and it became a routine.

Just do you.

 

[bubblebear]

hi chippy. im so happy you completed your first day at work. thats really big so go you <3 the thing with the not saying bye when your coworker left, i experience that alot with my housemate. i know its easy for me to say but you are going to be working there for a while so next time they say bye you will have the chance to reciprocate. and i dont think they would judge too harshly if u forgot to say bye one time. i think like misterbgone said things take time and practice. dont expect yourself to be perfect from day one cos htats a bit unlikely ( unlessy our superman ). do u hae a counsellor you can work in tandem with while u do this job? cos then u can bring your anxieties etc to the counsellor and they can help u work through them whle u are working

 

[KM76710]

One thing about work, take it as one step at a time, one day at a time and the two days to not worry about...yesterday and tomorrow. I think you will do well, and good luck.

 

[Chipetele]

Thanks for the replies everyone

One or two key questions, some strategic nodding of the head, and an occasional, 'Oh, really?' and after they're talked out, they'll walk away happy, thinking what a great listener you are

...really? wow, we really are a simple species

 

[Aurelia]

One or two key questions, some strategic nodding of the head, and an occasional, 'Oh, really?' and after they're talked out, they'll walk away happy, thinking what a great listener you are

Also, make sure to keep looking them in the eye. I always do that and people think I'm paying attention, when in reality, I'm strategically counting how many times they've blinked since they started talking.

 

[Chipetele]

Ooh, I'm having real problems with the eye contact thing. I'm not as uncomfortable with it as I used to be, but I still can't find the right balance between looking into their eyes for too long, or not long enough. I feel like looking them in the eye the entire time will come off as creepy.

 

[Human Ex Machinae]

...really? wow, we really are a simple species

In many ways, yeah.

Also, make sure to keep looking them in the eye. I always do that and people think I'm paying attention, when in reality, I'm strategically counting how many times they've blinked since they started talking.

I look them in the eye at key moments to punctuate the head nodding and the 'Oh, reallys', but I don't look them in the eye continuously. When I do that too long, all of reality dissolves, and all that remains are our eyes floating in an endless, white void. I hate when that happens.

 

[Lara_C]

Thanks for the replies everyone



...really? wow, we really are a simple species

It helps if you can develop a genuine interest in people and their stories. Stops you being self conscious because your attention is on them, not how you are appearing to them.

 

[Chipetele]

After almost two months at work, I'd become calm around the others at work, as long as we talked business (and even during small talk a few times with one of them)...and then today happened! I was on edge, I had an audible lump in my throat when my collegue (this is the chick I was "super attracted to", she was "above" my team then and was instructing us and available for questions but I've gotten a sort of promotion since then and have the same full time job as her...so she's my colleague now!) came to talk to me about something work related...wow, that was a long parenthesis ...anyways...I'd become calm around her too, yet I could barely get the words out, I was super on edge, struggled to make eye contact, I felt...inferior. Same when I went into her office to ask a question earlier, same when I asked he receptionist where to put something that someone was coming to pick up...and the same around my old "team" (it's their last week)...why now????
Why this anxiety now? I thought I'd improved, gotten more comfortable around them and in the workplace...but apparently I'm just experiencing random fluctuations???

 

[bubblebear]

anxiety comes and goes chippy. the important thing is to remember you can just try your best. and as long as you are facing it. one day it will become manaeagble and maybe even go away. dont be so hard on yourself if u experience a spike of anxiety your body has been used to it for so long it takes time to unlearn you know? hugs

 

[Nick]

I think some days the anxiety just spikes. Maybe you didn't get enough sleep the night before, or there is something else whirling around that you haven't put a finger on. I know that I can tell my best friend that I have done pretty much the worst thing you could imagine, and he would say "okay, let's deal with it". Maybe not in those exact words, but it wouldn't be the end of the world. Even with that knowledge there are still times where my anxiety kicks up and I'm afraid to talk to him about something. Makes no sense right? There is not logical reason for that. There are just times when our minds don't want to cooperate with the agenda.

You're doing great Chipetele! You have taken amazing steps. Don't view today as a setback. View it as a bad day. There may be more bad days, but we're here to talk to you about them anytime.

 

[Chipetele]

Thank you, and sorry for the abysmal reply rate/time.
I had more bad days!
I've been irritable as of late (it happens, had problems with irritability for large parts of my life now, it comes and goes) and ugh...
Okay, yesterday. I missed the bus I intended to take, which would've gotten me to work 15-20 minutes earlier, so I could work overtime (need to do so because I leave 3 hours early next Wednesday) without having to leave later than normal. And while at the bus station I briefly met the eyes of someone who smiled at me and I looked away without smiling back and only after doing so realized that was a coworker. The bus came and I went on board and this guy sat right in front of me without a mask. This annoyed the hell out of me so I immediately switched seats, only to realize I was sitting directly in front of another person who wasn't wearing a mask, so I immediately switched seats again, taking a back row seat this time. And as I sat down I saw my coworker a few seats up turn around briefly, looking to see wtf I was doing. I'd just made a scene on the bus in front of a coworker.... :/ AND I hadn't smiled back or said hi to her....

TODAY I missed the overtime-friendly bus AGAIN, and also my mood was wayyy low (and still is!). Today is the first time another coworker (he used to be part of my team, they renewed his contract at the last minute) was back at work after a long break. And he came on the bus, and our eyes met, and...I probably had an annoyed look on my face. Because I felt terrible. Irritable, depressed, the whole package. And we didn't say hi. And he sat right in front of me. He *was* wearing a mask, but it still annoyed me, because at this time I just really needed some physical space and a calm, quiet busride. And so him sitting right in front of me just made me feel more agitated...so I switched seats to the back row again. I don't know if he saw that, or knew it was me...
He left the bus one stop before mine (they're about the same distance from work) and as I entered the lobby, he was there along with the receptionist and another coworker.

I looked at the other coworker and said hi and smiled and then as I said it I looked around at the other two, still smiling, to make it clear I was saying hi to all of them. The coworker I looked at first (not the one from the bus, in case you're confused) then said "[NAME is back! " and pointed to coworker #1 (the one from the bus)...as if she expected me to act excited or have some extrovert joyous reunion moment. I said "yeah " and kept walking to my office, annoyed by, and confused by that exchange. I'd said hi!

Anyways...later in the day this other cowor....you know what, let's call her Bastila! I'm tired of using the word "coworker". So Bastila, who works from home these days like most people, showed up to pick up some more work. And the one who'd said "[NAME] is back!"...let's call her Juhani. Juhani went outside to deliver the boxes to Bastila (I could see them through the window). Now, the thing about Bastila is...I like her! Not as in I'm in love with her or crushing on her or anything, but like...I'm attracted to her and she has a pleasant voice and an accent that complements it and she knows a lot of stuff (she's a walking, talking office procedure) so she was very handy to have around when she wasn't working from home, and also she was nice and patient and respectful when faced with my obvious anxiety problem.
Note: this is not the same woman I talked about being ridiculously attracted to in my first post. We'll call her Visas.
I look out the window, see Bastila (and Juhani), think "Nice! " and go back to work. A while later I notice from the corner of my eye that they're still there, which I think is weird, but I guess these people like to chit chat. I look out the window again and...they're both looking at me. And not like they were talking and then they happened to look in my direction for a bit, no, it looked like they'd been talking about me. And they had this serious look on their faces..
So that ruined my day even more! I just now feel very strongly that my co...you know, them! That they're starting to find me bothersome, after a long time of being understanding, patient and respectful of my abnormality and anxiety problem. And it especially sucks when someone I like (even if the "like" is based on veeery little and I haven't talked to her much, or even had any sort of non-work-related conversation with her) dislikes me or finds me bothersome, which I now feel like she does. I didn't expect her to like me, of course, I haven't given her anything to like, but it still feels bad, man.

Another incident that I was very worried about but I think I got away with it: We have conference calls (video and audio, most people are on video) twice a week...and the first week I was going to be part of that (a couple of weeks ago) I was DREADING it. It's on tuesdays and thursdays so on Monday that week I took solace in the fact that I didn't have to worry about it that day. And then one cowo....someone we'll call Kreia, posted in the group chat that she thought we should have a video meeting today, too, because she thought it'd be nice to have a chat...and the boss went along with it. You guessed it, that annoyed me! It actually annoyed me so much I was trembling with anger. I'd so much anxiety about that call the next day and then we're doing an unscheduled one today, too, because Kreia thinks it'd be "nice"?! I posted in the group chat "I'll pass "...you can't pass on meetings. Good thing no one asked follow up questions because there's a good chance I would've gotten myself in trouble by telling them exactly what I thought about this. But, my boss had no complaints about me when she talked to the people they'd hired me through so I think I got away with it.
But I'm not in the best place emotionally these days and even if my boss hasn't noticed anything, it definitely seems like the others have.

Holy fuck did I write all that?

 

[Chipetele]

More ughhhs I forgot to mention:
Someone baked a cake for Juhani for her birthday and invited me to join them. Felt like such an jerk for saying no (tried to say it nicely but I don't think there is a nice way to turn down something like that. But the thought of being in that room with them in an exclusively social situation, no work context, just socialization... and the thought of sitting there and not saying anything and seeming so out of place for going to an exclusively social occation and not talking...just sitting there with them eating my cake and not saying anything and embarassing myself. Just imagining it is deeply uncomfortable. VERY bad impression on them.

Juhani and other coworker, what should we call her? Yuthura! Juhani and Yuthura went out of their way to my office to ask me to go for a walk with them. It was so nice of them! And of course I turned it down. I started some kind of half assed excuse of how I'd just come back after being away for 2 hours (Psychiatrist appointment, didn't tell them that part), I don't think I even finished my sentence, I probably realized the excuse didn't make any sense and didn't see how I could keep running with it. Another example of what would have been an exclusively social situation. Outside with them, away from work, no work to do while talking to them, or to talk to them about...put on the spot with nowhere to run. Them asking me to go for that walk and expecting that to be enough to make me a normal, social outgoing person who could enjoy himself with them and carry a conversation...
It felt safer to turn it down. But it also makes them dislike me. Puts me in a really bad light.

The only one who hasn't gotten a bad impression of me is my boss. She's hardly ever there, we communicate in writing which I'm much, much better at, and I've been quite productive and efficient, which is why I'm now working full time and have had my contract extended twice...But today she showed up at work. And she arranged for us all ("those who want to", she was informed I have social anxiety before they hired me so that caveat was aimed at me, no doubt) to have lunch in one of the big rooms where we could maintain distance. I actually intended to join them but at the last second I chickened out, realizing once again that I'd just be sitting there with them and not talking, and not being able to hold a conversation if they talked to me. My inside window and door happens to face the part of the room they had lunch in where my boss was sitting, facing my office. Great, now I've made a bad impression on her, too.

And at the end of the day today, I needed to ask her something and I was so tired I could barely complete my sentence, I could hear the flatness of my voice and I was slow to react and slow to reply and just...slow...bleh

Oh and at the end of the day it was just me and my boss left at the workplace and...I left without saying bye. I felt too uncomfortable going into her office and saying bye. I just disappeared on her. I don't know why that would make me uncomfortable

 

[Chipetele]

Just to complete the set, we'll call male coworker I saw on the bus Carth.

 

[Aurelia]

I think some days the anxiety just spikes. Maybe you didn't get enough sleep the night before, or there is something else whirling around that you haven't put a finger on. I know that I can tell my best friend that I have done pretty much the worst thing you could imagine, and he would say "okay, let's deal with it". Maybe not in those exact words, but it wouldn't be the end of the world. Even with that knowledge there are still times where my anxiety kicks up and I'm afraid to talk to him about something. Makes no sense right? There is not logical reason for that. There are just times when our minds don't want to cooperate with the agenda.

You're doing great Chipetele! You have taken amazing steps. Don't view today as a setback. View it as a bad day. There may be more bad days, but we're here to talk to you about them anytime.

What would "pretty much" the worst thing be, I'm curious?