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Humans Don't Know How To Love

Ziggy

Antiquitie's Friend
#41
Why should love be unconditional? Why should we be able to do whatever we like and feel that we should be loved for it regardless?

They say there's someone out there for everyone, but many people don't deserve to be loved. They need to work at it, like you need to work at gaining respect.
 

chipper

Well-Known Member
#42
That's the main problem. Love has been an overused, abused and misused term that nowadays, it hardly means anything at all.

Romance is different from love. Passion is different from love. You can love without romance. You can romance without love.

You love your children, your parents, your husband/wife/gf/bf/partner... You do not romance your children or your parents or [HOPEFULLY] any other member of your family with at least 3rd degree of consanguinity.

Love is unconditional and eternal. Unconditional means unconditional. Again... cut off my ears, take all my money, abuse me, kill everyone important to me and i love you anyway. THAT is unconditional. Anything less than that is CONDITIONAL, therefore, not love.

Admittedly, I cannot say I will ever feel that way for someone except MAYBE my future children (I will be unable to know that for sure because I still don't have children). If someone hurts my family, I am out the door. If someone hurts me, I am out the door.

I have been actually called a "romantic" when I told some people how I view love. They say it's too idealistic because we are human beings and innate in every human being is the need to belong and be respected. And I said, LOVE should be stronger than all those emotions. Heck, it should be stronger than our need to eat and drink, right? It should be stronger than anything.

Just because people are not capable of LOVING (loving in how i define it) doesn't mean love's true meaning will change.

That is why I said i don't think humans know how to love (except maybe parent to child) because we always have conditions, boundaries, limitations... because WE LOVE OURSELVES FIRST. and when our limitations, boundaries or conditions are challenged, that's when prove to ourselves, it's us first. we love ourselves first. and that's not bad, i think.

Sure we feel something for other people. We care for them, trust them, wish them well, respect them, etc. but that doesn't mean we love them. I don't know what that is called but UNLESS THAT IS UNCONDITIONAL, that's not love.

Don't get me wrong, I do hope someone out there is capable of it. I like happy endings... that's why I am still around.
 
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#43
the closest is a parent to a child... but "romantic love" does not exist.

Everyone has an innate need to feel important. That’s a universal truth. That is up there in the ranks of ‘we all need to eat’ and ‘we all need to sleep’. That is non-debatable and anyone who will say otherwise is absolutely stup!d.

That is why people “fall in love” with others. When someone makes them feel important and needed, they instinctively get attracted because their need is being met. They get the attention that they want, the knowing that there is someone else that gives a f$%k that they are alive, that in the billions and billions of people in this world, there is someone that would like to spend time with them over everyone else.

No one falls in love with someone that makes them feel like a worthless piece of sh!t, right? “Love” always begins with a smile that melts hearts or a hello what was just a little softer than other hellos or glance that lasted a second too long. It is always when someone makes you feel special.

Then you stay. You stay because you need a witness to your life as it is beautifully articulated in Shall We Dance. You need someone there to make you feel things you do don’t go unnoticed.

I don’t know if it is romantic but I do know it’s still about the self and not the other person.

It is vanity… not love.
I disagree.
Parental love is false, the concept of love is false.

As children we're practically forced the concept of love, but as a child, I questioned it and explored it.
I don't love my family, my mother, I don't truly love any of them.
I hate them.

If love does exists, I consider it this...
a time taken to understand and appreciate a person, for both their physical and mental aspects.
That is all.

Note: If you respond to this, I won't read it, so don't bother posting whether you agree or disagree, because I do not care.
 
#44
Chipper, I can certainly relate to some parts of the argument you have. However, I feel compelled to point out a premise that you seem to assume yet forget to address. In the topic title, you describe the issue as "to love" which targets "love" as a verb. Yet in your argument, you use the noun "love" interchangeably with the verb "love" which I think has led to much confusion. Allow me to explain.

The noun love is the direct result of the verb love. Under such assumption, I believe unconditional love is just the result of loving unconditionally. And loving unconditionally, as every other action, is a choice, not a result. Parents love their children unconditionally because they choose to do so, not because the love is wired in their nature; it's just that the choice here is fairly easy to make. That said, there are certainly parents who don't love their children unconditionally.

I don't think that love is like a key which you have to find with the act of loving. Instead, love is like ceramic which your act of loving creates. If you love unconditionally, you'll understand the feeling of unconditional love. If you love romantically, you'll feel love in the form of romance.

All in all, love may be overrated, but, in your words, the capacity to love can never be so.
 
#45
The concept of unconditional love exists. Parents are capable of it towards their children, some children are capable of it towards their parents. But humans are not capable of it in romantic relationships. No matter how you try to twist it around, that's just fact.
 

Axiom

Account Closed
#46
Maybe not from your personal experience yet. Defining everything is kinda humerous to be honest. :) Whatever floats your boat, if you need love to be so linear then sure,...
 

icequeen

Well-Known Member
#47
I disagree.
Parental love is false, the concept of love is false.

As children we're practically forced the concept of love, but as a child, I questioned it and explored it.
I don't love my family, my mother, I don't truly love any of them.
I hate them.

If love does exists, I consider it this...
a time taken to understand and appreciate a person, for both their physical and mental aspects.
That is all.

Note: If you respond to this, I won't read it, so don't bother posting whether you agree or disagree, because I do not care.
you made me feel sad that you dont see parental love as unconditional. maybe i have been lucky cos i know my parents loved me...but they also loved my siblings depsite them being the scum of the earth and didnt deserve it...i hated to see them abuse my parents, but they got away with it because of unconditional love. it does exist but i guess it is conditional on circumstances. its still a grey area, i dont think you should suffer abuse just cos you married, related etc...i dont let anyone treat me in a way i wont accept from strangers (long hard lesson). the only unconditional love is parent to child and v v for the most part.

i am a romantic in that i believe everyone has a good side, they just need to meet someone to bring it out. if that makes me sad..i can live with it, for now.

so..from one sad little person... :sf::ohwell:
 
#48
Maybe not from your personal experience yet. Defining everything is kinda humerous to be honest. :) Whatever floats your boat, if you need love to be so linear then sure,...
Unconditional means without condition. Regardless of how bad it is. I couldn't stay with someone if they hurt me badly enough, ever. So...there is no "yet" or "personal experience". Everyone would leave once they are hurt badly enough - mentally or physically.
 

Axiom

Account Closed
#49
Ok....

You're assuming there is going to be that one side is going to abuse the other.

And btw... i can guarentee you that there are some people who do stay with their abusers because they love them.
 
#50
You have to assume that. Without abuse there is no way of proving whether the love is unconditional or not. But it doesn't even have to be abuse, just something that makes someone feel bad...which happens in every relationship eventually.

And again, you're missing the point. Yes, there are women who are abused and stay with their abusers. Because they are willing to tolerate it up to that point perhaps. What if said abuser dismembers her in her sleep and barely keeps her alive. Can she still love him after that? I doubt it.
 

Axiom

Account Closed
#51
... right. Way to twist love eh? To each his own, and whatever floats your boat. If that's your rational tool to justify a lack of unconditional love, then so be it. Thankfully i dont feel or think anything like that about love.
 
#52
Ok....

You're assuming there is going to be that one side is going to abuse the other.

And btw... i can guarentee you that there are some people who do stay with their abusers because they love them.
You remind me of Emily and Jordan Chase in Dexter :) But in their case, it was a victim-predator complex, in which the victim seeks acceptance from the predator because of her low sense of self-worth.

Regardless, I do agree that there are some people who do stay with their abusers. Go to East Asia.
 

Axiom

Account Closed
#53
Say what?

:P

That's not me, it's just a thought that i put together :) Based off of that some people seem to believe unconditional love is only determined by abuse and pain caused by one partner on the other.

It's not how I view unconditional love :)
 
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#54
Well, "thankfully" I am able to think logically about something without bias. Do I think its okay to abuse someone? No. But how else are you going to prove that something has no conditions without testing any and all conditions? Please enlighten me.
 

Axiom

Account Closed
#55
lol idk, if youre so curious about the limitations of someone who loves you, test it out. Though if you question it, id say, maybe it's a love based to the limitations of that persons tolerences, not unconditional.

logically.. and love? Numbers and feelings. Yeah they kinda kill eachother if one is the soul drive of understanding the other.
Btw why would you want to prove it? .. idk, kinda seems like a poison to love in itself

*edit* i can see where you are coming from, i just, know that spear heading love like that, .. you'll end up chasing infinity and never touching it. Well, atleast from my experience.

here
But more than ever I simply love you
More than I love life itself
You can bury/break life that holds unconditional love. but there is a way to come back, , but it doesn't mean that love is lost, just the connection between the life and lovethat it resides in the person. You can be beaten broken and destroyed, and that love can still be strong inside, but you can also turn your back on it, to survive, and find new love in life. Doesn't mean it's gone. The logical side works for that. It can stop any flow for any purpose. But it can't flow and be, like what it stops and tries to define.

Again, in my opinon atleast.

Blah blah to some :P
 
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#56
In my opinion, if you turn your back on someone (ie. Break up with them), you can't claim to have ever loved them. You don't give up on someone that you love. I understand that you feel there is no need to prove it, but I'm the type that needs answers and proof in order to believe in something. On one hand, that makes me realistic and intelligent. On the other, it makes me miserable because I see the flaws in all things good.

Although I don't believe in true love, I am in a relationship and don't plan on trying to prove it unconditional. I know its not and it hurts that its not. But humans just aren't capable of it. Its not our fault. Its just how we are. Doesn't mean I have to avoid relationships or anything though. I can delude myself into being happy. Its second best to truly being it.
 

chipper

Well-Known Member
#57
there is only one kind of love.

again, romantic love, platonic love... those are concepts we created to segregate relationships.

however, there love is only one kind - it unconditional and eternal.

once there is a condition, that's not love.
once it has a timeline, that's not love.

when you say "i will stop loving him once he abuses me" that's a condition. that's not love.

i agree, you shouldn't stay with someone who abuses you that is why i said, humans don't know how to love. because no matter what we do, we need to protect, preserve and love ourselves first.

clarification:
- there MAY BE two exceptions: love of parent to a child and love for ourselves. but then again, those may be instincts. i'm not sure.
 
#58
Love hey. Well i thought i had found it once and put up with a lot of crap and it destroyed my life. i stayed with my abuser out of love and it took complete inhalation of everything to make me move on.
Then i fell in love. I truly felt it. it wasnt like before, before i was too young to realize and had gone too far to give up.
This is different. we both have our good and our bad sides. We are not Perfect, not by any standards.
Love is understanding, it is caring, it is unconditional. There are limits to what people can/do/should put up with and if you break up with someone because these limits are crossed, it doesnt mean you didn't love them, it simply means they didnt respect that love enough to help it grow.
Unconditional doesn't mean you forfeit your right to self respect, it means you love that person for who they are, who have they have been and who they are striving to become.

Don't give up on love, it is the most beautiful of all things in life if it is respected and felt by both.
 
#59
I think the term "unconditional love" is just as easy as appreciating someone and being willing to be there for them if they need you--including asking them to change habits that you think are harmful. I don't think it's anything more complex than that, and therefore I don't believe humans are incapable of it. I don't equate "unconditional" with apathetic by any means. If I don't like something about someone, my love for them isn't automatically "conditional," it's just that I feel they would be better off without that thing (e.g. I love my mother unconditionally, but I don't like that she is an alcoholic).

I guess for me it's not some glorious supernatural-feeling thing where we absolutely wouldn't want to change a person and feel some magical connection. I mean, even unconditional love for a child is biologically linked. It all depends on how you define "love"--as a chemical equation or as some spiritual element.

I dunno, it's hard to explain, but I think "unconditional" is basically just a label we give to things. It's not that it's real or not real, it's just that some of us don't view "unconditional" and "with intent for guidance" as mutually exclusive.
 

fromthatshow

Staff Alumni
SF Supporter
#60
I think only God can give unconditional love. Can you honestly think of a person who could be or do anything and you would still love them? If so, what is it about that person as opposed to a different person. To me, every man's heart is the same. He/she wants the same things. The way they go about it and express themselves is the only thing that differs.
 

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